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What a mess!!! |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 5:57am |
What a mess!!! Butler/Warren Counties lead Ohio in population growth, but Middletown population shrinks to its lowest levels in forty years, and Butler County foreclosures Jump 70% from January (and 32%+ from last year)!!! Yet all we keep hearing is how wonderful and great things are in Middletown, and about our brighter future. All the positivism in the world will get us nowhere, unless we first:
Once we stop trying to fool ourselves (and everyone else) and begin to do this, we will have an actual reason to feel positive, and things actually will begin to improve!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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None of what you listed will happen UNLESS we get rid of all who have brought us to this cluster Mike. Gotta gut the cause of the problems (current mindset of city government) before we can enact the five bullets you have listed. The cancer must be removed before the healing can begin. JMO
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Today's Journal...
Census: Middletown loses 2,000 in 10 years “We anticipated a slight population decrease given the history of Middletown and the state of the economy,” she (Gilleland) said, noting the city’s population in 1970 was 48,767". "But Gilleland said the city is going through a rebirth this decade, purposefully “rightsizing” its communities by getting rid of housing stock and anticipating the completion of the Greentree Health Science Academy and the potential location of a Cincinnati State Technical & Community College branch campus downtown". Nice spin Gilleland. A "rebirth"...."rightsizing"- What??? The population loss couldn't be the fact that you and others before you have made the decision not to concentrate on providing jobs for the people in this town, providing any semblence of a quality of life and they have left to seek employment, escape the ghetto mentality theme you are creating and are just plain tired of you people making this a ghost town. And, at the same time, no one wants to locate to this town for the same reasons. No Gilleland- look in the mirror. You have met the culprit and it is you and that circus you call a city staff. |
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Richard Saunders
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 30 2010 Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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No “rightsizing” of the Section 8 portion of the population, though.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Vet, every city council member and city leader would say they are addressing the problem, its all in The Master Plan! Then, they'd point to the magnificent projects at Cincinnati State, The Manchester, PAC, and the Atrium. Don't you get it, "they have a plan", its the "Master Plan" (LOL).
The economy is too far in shambles, infrastructure let rot for too many decades. Are $330Kk- $500 Kk still being bought? Sure they are, just not out at the Renaissance. Wasn't that the next big saving project? You have 1/6 of housing stock build to date, now the rest will compete with Sawyer's Mill, and the $100,000 homes inside 75 that 10 years ago, were appraised at $210,000. The other areas began by tax incentives. Middletown is just far back to be competitive. I predict at the end of the day, Cincinnati State will have a small satellite office downtown. We have 20 years before the gloabl mess begins to even begin to turn around and it won't be anything like we have had in the past. No job recovery, decreasing income, and a > chasm between super rich, and those able to make a cell phone payment each month. So what is the solution? There is none. Except avoid waste, tighten belt. Fix potholes. |
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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acclaro, no solution? How about that "can do" spirit that gets things done? I can actually see what city council is trying to do, my problem is the current track record of city council on economic development projects!!! At this point, this city council is "all in" on the Cincinnati State plan. If that falls through, it's time for all 7 members to resign and a special election held to fill the seats. That council can then devise a new plan . Avoid waste? How about making our "stock" of housing more energy efficient, repair of the roadways of this city and finding businesses willing to locate here. Having an arts district is fine, but without people with money to spend artists will starve.
The real point is there are solutions to our problems. The first thing we need to do is have enough courage and confidence to participate in our future. If the future here is not what you want, change it. That's what our democracy is supposed to be about.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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TonyB says "The real point is there are solutions to our problems. The first thing we need to do is have enough courage and confidence to participate in our future. If the future here is not what you want, change it".
TonyB- The city doesn't want you (us) to participate in the town's future. There are several on this site who have, over the years, tried to approach council with the intent to make suggestions, indicating to council that we were trying to participate in the future of this town. We have been on committees, spoken at council meetings, written Letters To The Editor, made E-Mail contacts, gone to forums giving our opinions, etc. We have been ignored time and time again and, with council making it perfectly clear that they do not wish the average citizen to participate in the direction of this town (with the exception of a small chosen number), we are out of options on our approach to the kingdom who runs the place. Exactly how is one suppose to approach a group of city officials who don't want citizen input as to their ideas to improve/change this town? If they won't listen, the effort is a waste of time isn't it? Your idea of the 7 council people resigning and being replaced by receptive replacements is a start. However, the job still isn't complete without the new council firing the city manager on down with receptive replacements in that area. THEN, we might start a two way dialog with our city government. JMO |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Tony B- I respectfully agree to disagree with your "all in" a pproach to finding solutions. I will echo the point made above countless citizens have made attempts to resolve many of Middletown's problems, but the council and city leadership don't want the help. I personally know several of the brightest minds in the country that live in Middletown that are top execs in high tech, biotech, healthcare, cpg, other sectors, that the city council have ignored or passed over many times. Simply put, they don't want the help, and I can adamantly say, these are TOP FLIGHT PEOPLE renoewn nationally. City hall just doesn't get it. So the "all hands on deck" premise just doesn't fly in Middletown.
Fixng the roads? Easy solution----put back the infrastructure funds takne out since 1986. Been saying that for about 6 years, but no one on council has made that effort at all. Next, fix all the roads? Great idea? Now Tony B, who writes the check for $100 Mm? Solution going to be to pass a 2.25% tax increase? That ain't gonna happen, and shouldn't. So, do you have the rich uncle that writes the check? The citizens don't, and by the city taking infrastructure funds over 20 plus years, you have alot of asphalt to pave, I recall the city figured it was going to take 50 years. So, we have $100 Mm to pay for roads that have been neglected and the solution will take us 50 years. Next!
Lets turn to green housing. Great idea. Lets all go out and buy $50,000 in grid stuff, solar panels, wind turbines, etc. Now, my house I paid $200 Kk for in 1989 is now worth $135Kk some 20 years later, but I am going to spend $50 Kk to make $3,000, after losing $65 Kk in a house that with inflation, should be worth $340 Kk? No, don't have the cash, the credits mean nothing referring to tax credits, and I would not get 10% back on my investment.
Now if you are saying the city provides all this (LOL), I'm all for it. Finally to Cincinnati State. So council is all in on State. Big deal, how many jobs does teaching chefs how to cook provide, when they won't be working in Middletown? How much tax is produced in income tax by maybe 30 employees from State? Not much. At gas now about $3.65/ gal and rising, more people are inclined to move to Middletown to commute or not? Right you are, can't afford to pay $600.00 month, to go back and forth to Cincinnati.
There have been countless solutions provided, and i think you are offering observations, but don't see where the money comes from to fix roads, put up wind turbines and solar, attract business with tax incentives when the news talks more about Middletown for bullying and burning hair than innovation and a strong work force, and where 500 vacant lots sit now for homes for those in the price range of $350,000 and above?
So Tony B, I ask you, what is your solution again? And who is paying for it.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Sure!!! And I can just imagine if our city officials were in charge in Japan right now:
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Cox News headlines???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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OK all, I get that you're frustrated with this council, this city manager and the situation in our town. Do you really believe there are no solutions? If so, what's the point of taking the time to even discuss this on this blog? Are you telling me that the only viable solution is to leave this town to its own devices? Maybe you're saying I should just move out of town and not bother. If that's the case, then the people you have identified as causing these problems have won. If this is the town that they want, and nothing can be done about it, why bother? I just don't see that as the answer. If this council won't listen, replace them. Is it that difficult to organize an effective message in this town? Please let me know because if that is the case, I will seriously consider moving out of town. I have no wish to live in a town governed without the consent of the governed!!!
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Welcome to our world, TonyB--beautiful post.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Tony B- "If this council won't listen, replace them. Is it that difficult to organize an effective message in this town?"
Yes, it is that difficult to organize an effective message in this town. Nick Kidd tried to do it several years ago at the old Mont. Ward store on University. Interest went a meeting or two and fizzled. Had a small group meet on a Sunday afternoon at the library. Even had Mr. Marconi and Ms. Scott-Jones there one time. Discussed subjects ranging from the city finances to the road/pothole issues. Didn't take it any further. Had maybe 25 people at the first meeting. Then averaged about 6 to 8 people after that. Just can't get all these dissatisfied people off the couch to attend any attempt to organize. If you have any suggestions on how to combat apathy, let us know. We have talked about distributing petitions for recall on this forum. Even among the most "disgruntled" on this forum, we had apathy. The idea didn't get past making the trip to Hamilton's Board of Elections to pick up the petitions. Everybody is mad.......just not enough to do anything about it. Always has been the problem......and city hall is delighted. JMO |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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NPR (Nippon Public Radio) reporter: Please tell us, Ms. Gilleland-San, what is your estimation of recent events in northeastern prefectures???
City Manager Gilleland: Well, I am encouraged at the way so many coastal communities were effeciently "right-sized". It will allow us to more economically serve those areas and thereby provide more public funds downtown, where the cash is desperately needed to make our buildings there look older, or decorate with scrapped Toyota hoods.
NPR reporter: Ah so, Ms. Gilleland-San! Cox News Service reports that many scrapped Toyota hoods will soon be flooding market. Should mean good price for city!
City Manager Gilleland: YES! The Future does look BRIGHTER!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Vet, I think the meeting you refer had more to do with an ineffective message and rationale than dis-interest. I like many of Nick Kidd's ideas and observations, but I think this time around people are utterly disgusted with Middletown's direction. About 85%.
TonyB, not sure what your point to be. I just provided solutions you'll hear from city council. Try this again.
1) We need to raise taxes 2.25% to pay for roads that will be done in 50 years.
2) We won't rescind the allocation for taking dedicated infrastructure to pay for roads and sewers since 1986 because we want to spend it on the salary's of the city.
3) When we bring in Cincinnati State after bailing out the Thatcher estate, hmmm, when we have Cincinnati State in Middletown, we have excellent educational opportunities for future employers and their employees as well as our residents including those on Section 8 we have recruited to compenate for the drop in Middletown population.
4) I agree I'd love and would others, to put in the money to have a "green" home saving my Duke bill averaging> $500.00 monthly, but who pays for it, me or the city? I explained the problem there, too many houses are at 1/2 value where they were 20 years ago.
Tony B- Final comment- its not just this council, Middletown's malaise with council goes back to the early 1980's.
Suggestion if I may: Get out while you can. Excellent people who care about the city and citizens to replace the current band of brothers and sisters, but tied up tending to other needs and responsibilities. CEO's like to give their $$$ to elect a Miami lawyer than a commonsense and honest preacher or mechanic.
So there you have it, the solutions from the city, the problems, and why it won't change until Middletown is so far down, the ones that destroyed it for 35 years are in their 80-90 range, and senile (and can't do any more harm).
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rem 1187
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jan 25 2011 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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For me it comes down to leadership, our charter is setup for a city manager to handle the day to day business. I have worked with several of the cities staff over the the years on different projects and yes I shake my head at times as I watch a simple task turn into a long affair of "what do we do now". But over all the people I have gotten to know do care about "doing it right". The morale of our senior staff and union employees IMO is at an all time low. I realize that I'll get some feed back about how they get paid the "big bucks" and should suck it up. For any of us who have worked for someone else or have your on employees there is nothing worse than having an employer who doesn't trust you. Someone who does not follow or allows a employee to follow his or hers job description. We've all had to multi-task and change our game plan for the day, but when you have $100,000 employees being micro-managed by someone who doesn't trust you thats a problem IMO. If they can't do the job get them on a disciplinary program or remove them. I have seen a change in business when it comes to allowing poor preformers to keep their jobs because of our joke of a work force. I have spoken about removing our city manager and the response I get is "then what do we do". IMO could it be any worse,maybe but I know for a fact that several of our past councilman regret this hire. I posted the other day,after a very long day which I did not mean to imply that know one on this site has not participated in our city. Mr. Presta and SJ along with Randy I have seen quite often at city functions. I feel we could do better with a new leader and the sooner the better. Thats what I meant by staying focused on one topic. |
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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rem1187, thanks for your post; I guess my question is why do the members of council still support the current city manager? If morale is this poor; that speaks to leadership. Leadership in the public field is about inspiring employees to follow that job description and knowing that the job you're doing is important and valued. Without trust from the top, a public employee's job becomes an endless request for direction.
I'd venture to say that this Cincinnati State decision will be the turning point for the city manager. If this falls through, not only should she offer her resignation, so should council.
acclaro -interesting choices you offer. Are those the only ones available? Let me start with the easy one first. 4. If the property belongs to you, you pay for the upgrades. Common sense there. The resale value of the property only comes into play when you sell, the energy and money savings pay for themselves if you plan to stay long term. Obviously, trying to sell now would not be beneficial to someone who planned to sell immediately. The real point here is that this is something that every house in America needs. You can't hope to save money if you waste energy on the scale that this country does. Those are the days that are gone forever. As for point 1., I don't see raising taxes as the only solution for infrastructure improvement. Neglecting our roads has been disasterous for the reputation of this city. That should be the number one priority of the council. If they don't have a plan, they need to come up with one now. The obvious fix is to do exactly what your point 2. suggests. Dedicated funds for infrastructure improvement should be done for every budget cycle and not used to pay for staff. This city manager should be tasked with justifying all non-union city positions. If staff cuts need to be made, to borrow a phrase "so be it".
Now to your point 3.: I'm still not convinced that this project is going to fly. If it does, then everything you wrote might well fall into place. Even if it does happen, the success of this venture is still dicey. As I've written before, the track record of city council in economic development has not been good. Until we get a committment from Cincy State, everything is up in the air.
There are always solutions, some pleasant, some not so much. I'll say it again, if we don't have leadership that will tackle the tough problems, let's get rid of them and find someone who will!
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rngrmed
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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" "Steam" from the nuclear power plant to dry streets and building rapidly. All part of the Master plan."
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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TonyB:
Good question why our current council continues to keep her on board. Let's review how she operates; She does allow council into decision making for the city. NOT THEIR JOB! Also, she hires outside counsultants to make decisions for her. Let's she, she makes $135.000 per year for other people to make her decisions. That is a very good way from having "bad" decisions blamed on her. I hear that a paid consultant is now in charge of the Cincinnati State project. As rem1187 has said; she has accomplished lowering the morale in the city building to an all-time low. Her "personal" hire, Mike Robinette turned out to live up to his reputation that he had before coming here. That didn't work. How long will council allow the city to go backwards before making a change? Any sports team that goes bad, they fire the coach, not the players. I believe that the majority of city staff is dedicated to their jobs and are trying to hold on until she leaves.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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jag123....
"I believe that the majority of city staff is dedicated to their jobs and are trying to hold on until she leaves". For the most part, I agree, jag. I do believe there are exceptions though. I think Kohler and Landen have done enough damage on their own and need to leave with Gilleland. Kohler on his pathetic failed schemes as a city planner (must be something to this as I had heard he was fired in Lebanon) and Landen, who seems to develop his own interpretation of the laws rather than to acknowledge the actual laws, depending on the situation. The rest of the city staff....perhaps you are correct. |
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rem 1187
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jan 25 2011 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Along time ago in a galaxy far,far away we had a city manager who came up from the ranks of being a cop for the city of Middletown. Mr. Becker got kind of missed placed during the circus show better known as city council. Does city council really support this current city manager or have they become overwhelmed to a point that any warm body will do until they have to put the next fire out. The problem IMO does have to do with council knowing their place and not creating more to do in order to close a issue and move on. I bring Mr. Becker up to show how fast we go thru city managers. Trust and accountability is something all of use can "feel" when working around your peers. Ask your councilman if they believe in the city manager and the job they are doing, I have.
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Some council take advice from the MMF group. This group including; Slagle, Cohen, Scorti, Sawyer, Martin and others have the ear of the city manager and she follows them like a little pup. From what I have been told, she had a party and her home with the MMF group and others to dicsuss the replacement of Robinette and how to address Cincy State among other items. I understand from former council people, that a major mistake was made when she was hired. I paid my dues in Middletown and have moved to Warren County. However, my family is still in Middletown and I try to keep a close eyes on things.
ps;
Vet: I believe Mr. Kohler is short lived.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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jag, I am not certain how to respond to your post other than I believe the majority on this site have stated that is what has killed Middletown for 25 years, the city manager focusing on a handful of people to tell he/she what to do. If she/he makes them happy, then they stick around. The problem began with Husemann as he was nothing but a puppet doing the bidding of the people you reference and few others.
His interest was making a transitional buck while he found a position in Virginia, and accomplished little, other than recruiting a clone when she came into town. She was given a copy of all the key players and what they wanted done when she was hired. Before that, Becker was put in place as a means of getting his retirement pension up at a higher level by the "title", and the expectation he could pull the votes for the 2.25% tax. Next, the stop gap is the $75Kk temp that greased the skids for the few that run Middletown, including the names referenced. Point: Ms. G is perfectly fine as long as these handful of people are happy. I suspect Mulligan, Picard, Becker, Allen, are very satisfied, with maybe a negative of one current council member. A friend happened to be doing some family historic research a few months ago and overheard Scorti talking to Martin that he was doing "grant research" for the courts. Now they have in place the system they want to have a few pull the strings. One assumes she'd throw Kohler under the bus if the few that she reports to, got a smack-down from LR. End result- while Middletown melts like a nuclear rod in a power plant in Japan, life is cozy and comfortable for Ms. G and the handful of citizens she works for. This mess started with incompetent council people in the 80's that took their eye off the ball, it accelerated when Becker was put in a city manager, then H, then G, with rules to follow, and if you make these few happy, that's all that matters. It worked for 7 years for the Super, it will work for at least 5-7 for the city manager. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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jag123 writes....."From what I have been told, she had a party and her home with the MMF group and others to dicsuss the replacement of Robinette and how to address Cincy State among other items".
Can't be factual or Mike Presta, the Spider, Mr. Nagy, Randy Sue, Hermes and the whole gang from MUSA would have been invited. That woman is just crazy about us! Hope you're right about Kohler. Hopefully, Landen is next to leave. Slagle I can understand. Kind of an a--. Cohen is a disappointment. Graduated with him. Played knothole with him at Smith Park-late 50's. He and Barry seemed like decent people. Must have changed over time. Scorti- got his nose in everything. Seems self-absorbed. Martin and Sawyer- don't know 'em. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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I don't understand why anyone would be encouraged by the track record of the "city leaders" mentioned . Despite being well-intentioned quality people, the end results of their direction have left the community on it's knees in many directions.
The east end hasn't developed as planned, with a full fill of ancillary medical facilities. The housing structure took a big hit from planning commission last week. Now we will have a higher density lower-quality structures where we had planned a newer high end development. Now we will have more competition to the sale of existing homes within the core of our city geographically. Older inner town structures will linger while the new cheapies will bring on the new crop of foreclosees.Marty K had this one right imo.
The former downtown area is a mess. PAC has done nothing--Cincy St. is a hopeful work in progress and the key glimmer of a future at this time. I was told thatthat a local attorneypossibly has been retained to do the Cincy St., Fastrax and other ED duties. This could be the best thing going for the situation.
The city owns far too much dormant property in the former downtown. When you look at:
former Office Outfitter empty property(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
former Clark station(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
empty Antique Mall to Cabinet shop(still empty)
Studio/Strand + connecting structure(yet to be demo'ed)
adjacent empty lots(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
city owned Cabinet shop(still in use by cabinet makers--are they paying rent/utilities?)
former Swallens/parking garage(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
2 former bank buildings("mothballed" at taxpayer expense)
former Masonic Temple(well-utilized by ACF)
Cinergy building(hopefully used by Cincy St.eventually)
former Manchester Inn(to be used for/by ?? at a HUGE taxpayer expense)
Sonshine building(same as above)
+ numerouS residential properties that are costing the taxpayer between $50,000-$75,000 EACH un-necessarily.
Crime and Section 8 are still far out of proportion, with nothing really being done about either. Only talk and dept/committee reports dominating the sessions.
Blaming 2 new Councilmembers or a somewhat new city manager is a stretch, and imo scapegoating those responsible for decades of short-sighted decisions and policies.
The Master Plan Steering Committee has been put on hold for 4 months now without meeting.
Can't get a quorum, and any momentum from early efforts has been lost due to committee appointments who simply didn't follow through on their pledge to serve. As a member of this committee, I thank Marty K for his open and sincere effort to keep this rolling. Things have changed locally, with the master plan posibly due to be revised to necessary adjustments brought on by on-going circumstances.
MU-M just finished a wonderful Artists/Lecture series last night with an outstanding sold-out performance by Arlo Guthrie. Credit to the hard work of Howard Epstein and the confidence/encouragement from Mr.Pratt. This series brought in 6 very different groups of attendees(mostly from outside of Middietown), and gave them a strong positive impression of local aesthetics, also a boon to local restaurants.To her credit, our city manager was one of the strongest most enthusiastic supporters of this series. |
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