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Monday, November 25, 2024 |
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Well Sure It Does! |
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VietVet 
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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 Topic: Well Sure It Does!Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 10:58am |
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Journal article today about the demolition of the AK complex. Our mayor is right on top of things and always says the most appropriate generalizations one could come up with......
“It represents a 100-year plus legacy in Middletown. But as we look to the future it does create some opportunities for additional development down the road,” said Middletown Mayor Larry Mulligan. IT DOES CREATE SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT DOWN THE ROAD...nice vague, non-committal, non-actionable, non-believable statement reminiscent of many made by this city gov. concerning this town. If AK couldn't sell the location after trying for over a year, couldn't give the site nor the buildings away for over a year, what makes you think, in that location, that "additional development" might be in the cards....down the road? It will become a "greenspace", a nice way of saying "we can't find anyone interested in doing anything with the property" and remain that way for many years to come. Hey!.... still waiting for the first round of opportunities for development in our many "greenspaces" Mr. Mayor much less ADDITIONAL development. Mercy! Then you have this from our southern neighbor, Monroe...... He returned to his hometown on Friday to participate in a ground-breaking ceremony for LCNB National Bank, which will anchor a new $6 million, 30,000-square-foot retail project expected to include restaurants and offices a half-mile from Cincinnati Premium Outlets along Interstate 75 and Ohio 63 in Monroe. The area known as the I-75 Corridor is an increasingly popular business growth spot between Dayton and Cincinnati. INCREASINGLY POPULAR BUSINESS GROWTH SPOT.....except for Middletown. Why is that Mr. Mulligan, Mr. Robinette, and Ms. Gilleland? “This land right here is primed for continued growth around the interchange and, obviously, we brought one business in as an anchor, and with the road that is going in, it will spur other development,” Brock said. ......except in Middletown....(repeat the same question to the same people listed above). |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 11:30am |
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<<sigh>> another tired, old shot at city leadership. Look, AK paid to tear their own buildings down. Of course, there will be no development there now or even soon, but maybe eventually there will be. Do you want a bunch of vacant AK buildings to stand there forever? And this teardown has nothing to do with Monroe's development.
Monroe has a few things Middletown doesn't have -- nearby retail development (outlet mall), more open land on which to develop, and most importantly, proximity to shoppers who have a few bucks to spend. Middletown doesn't have the demographic to support such developments. And just how is this all the Mayor's fault?
Folks, missplaced anger and constant criticism, especially toward people who have little, if any, ability to fix the unfixable, is not very healthy for you.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 2:25pm |
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I realize AK paid to tear down the buildings Bill. No. I don't want a "bunch of vacant buildings to stand there forever". Wasn't trying to "tie in" this event with the development in Monroe. How in the he-- did you make that connection. Was merely trying to use these two events to compare the different mind-sets of the two towns, that's all. Apparently, with the on-going activity with Monroe's development and the apparent constant demolition and subsequent lack of refilling vacated spaces as a result of said demolition, we have two different approaches to building a town. One is aggressive and thoughtful about the development approach and one town just tears down everything in sight, plants grass seed and waits for potential people to come 'a knockin'. I'm making the comparison of aggressive behavior with a game plan as opposed to passive behavior with no apparent game plan at all.
Middletown has just as much land to develop as the Rt. 63 exit in Monroe. What is happening at each exit? One seems to be more active. I'll let you guess which one. And just where should one in Middletown "place their anger" if it is indeed misplaced, and direct their "constant criticism" Bill? The anger and constant criticism is directed at the very people who are responsible for doing something about all of this. If you want to play mayor, city manager, econ. dev. director and be a big wig in town, you set yourself up for this. IF you want to run the show, you put a target on your back for this if you are screwing up. In doing what they are doing now and have done in the past-ie little to no activity on the econ. dev. front, you subject yourself to criticism because it is YOUR JOB to take care of these things. Sorry if you disagree, Bill. |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 3:36pm |
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I just think the reality of this town's demographic, the infrastructure, flight of corporations, bad decisions made 30 years ago, etc etc all outweigh whatever attempts are made by ED, mayor, whoever. Vet, you continue to rant about results as if there are attainable positive results within reach IF ONLY we had the right person or people in charge. I'm saying there's not a realistic chance that ANY leader could produce the kind of success (ED, schools, etc.) that you would be happy with. Mason/Monroe/West Chester can offer up their filet mignon, swordfish, or lobster because they have it in stock and at a reasonable price, plus great side dishes to go with it....no need for a fancy waiter to promote it. Middletown is selling the salisbury steak with gravy and it doesn't matter who is promoting it -- it could be Robinette, Jolivette, or the Rockettes.
I've reached the acceptance stage of grieving for what this town is while you still seem stuck in the anger or denial phase.
A comparison may be a bad college football program like Indiana, Vanderbilt, or Duke. Because of a variety of factors those programs will not likely ever have sustained success, at least in the foreseeable future. Sure there will be a spurts of improvement -- that one 4 or 5 star recruit that helps out for awhile, that charismatic coach that builds excitement for awhile, etc. But in the end those programs cannot reach the Mt. Everest of college football because they have too many things holding them back. Same with Middletown. It doesn't mean you don't try -- but I also don't see the point of raging at the head coach at IU because they go 3-8 and get bashed by the Buckeyes by 40 points.
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 4:14pm |
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Another way of looking at the Monroe growth is to ask those new businesses "did you come to that location because Monroe sold you on something and Middletown didn't?" I'm sure they would say no, it doesn't have anything to do with a sales pitch, it's simply a matter of business data: available land, # and types of surrounding businesses, # of people at a certain income level with a certain radius, traffic (both human and car), and on and one. These are factors that ED cannot do much about it. This doesn't mean they don't try, obviously. They should be looking high and low for opportunities that make sense. But I won't fire a few people because some development is occurring 5 miles south that we all knew was coming. (Now, if they are botching deals that should be getting that's another story.)
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 4:17pm |
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Bill, you state "I'm saying there's not a realistic chance that ANY leader could produce the kind of success (ED, schools, etc.) that you would be happy with". Response- I would be happy with a group of city leaders who would keep up with the surrounding areas. Middletown use to be the big dog around here WHEN COMPARED TO THE WEST CHESTER, MASON, SPRINGBORO, FRANKLIN, MIAMISBURG, LEBANON, ETC, ETC areas UNTIL the 70's when the balance of influence, power, image, demographics, etc. started slipping away. This town has had since the 70's to get their act together, figure out a way to keep pace, roll with the changes that have occurred as the little burgs of Springboro, Mason and the West Chester areas have become the big kids on the block as to influence and success now. I blame city leadership since the 70's for letting that happen. THEY wanted to play big man on campus in leadership roles. THEY wanted to control the destiny of Middletown. THEY wanted to determine the future of this town and it has all turned to shi- in the past 30+ years to the point we are at now. The schools? I've said this a hundred times...when I went to the Middletown schools from elementary through the old high school on Girard, it was a class operation, producing decent, quality results with the students who graduated from this school system. Now, just as the past and current leaders have let the town go to the hogs, the school system is an embarrassment and is not even close to what it was years ago. And, just as I blame the past/current city leaders for the city's demise, I blame the past and current school board, school administration and school teachers - everyone RESPONSIBLE for assuming the jobs of educating, for the demise of a once proud, respectable school system. Repeating the previous post, if you're going to run the ship and reap the rewards of any success, you've got to put on your big boy/girl panties and accept the blame when you have failed miserably. Just like in a performance appraisal at work, I'm going to criticize when things go wrong and will praise WHEN AND IF things go right. Just as in corporate America, the major stockholders hold accountable the CEO. If he/she does well, they are rewarded. If not, they move on. It is time for the city leaders and the school people to "move on". To date, not too much to praise for either of them. Hell yeah I'm angry at what they've done to the town.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 4:26pm |
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Bill- the difference is 4 miles. How much different can it be between development in Monroe and in Middletown UNLESS....UNLESS....the attitude and ingenuity of the two towns are different as I suspect they are. We know that we have a stubborn little man named Kohler who insists that it be his way or the highway and most are probably taking the highway rather than to bring a business to Middletown. No, IMO, the difference in the success of Monroe and the non-success in Middletown is the difference in the mindset in econ. dev. with each community. Open-minded progressiveness of Monroe versus stubborn close-minded anti-progressive stances that are allowed by the city manager concerning Kohler is the difference IMO. This town has been doing this close-minded crap so long, we are now avoided like the plague. So much for any recovery soon. JMO
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PattiGal
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Sep 09 2009 Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 6:59pm |
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Has anyone done any property value comparisons in other areas? I hear West Chester mentioned so often here...pick any property for sale there and look at the asking price. Pull Butler county's records and see how much the property was worth just a couple of years ago. Sure the prices might be higher than Middletown, but the properties have lost the same value percentage. It's the same everywhere....
 This is all going to take more time than any of us would like, but we have no control over the situation. Recovery for Middletown will be a slow process...just like everywhere.
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"Because nice matters..."
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 7:51pm |
Yes, that may be true, however, Middletown has been struggling with the same low property ratings, slower than snails pace development and has trailed the surrounding area in growth long before the current downturn in the economy, lower property values, rampant unemployment, etc. Long before the current poor economy hit, Middletown was never a mecca for property worth compared to West Chester or any other surrounding area communities for that matter. IMO, property worth is determined by desirability and popularity of an area as it applies to people's perceptions. For 40+ years, Middletown has never been a highly desirable area in which to locate for many of the reasons discussed on this forum. The Middletown housing market may never make a rebound as long as the situations we talk about here remain the same. JMO |
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 9:19pm |
Yes prices have dropped in all areas, but Middletown more than most. The main difference between Middletown and surrounding communities such as West Chester, Mason, Monroe, etc. is they at least have people who are moving into those cities. They have potential residents who want to live there. They have the necessities that new residents demand today, Middletown lacks most of what Middle class residents want today in the city they want to live in.
Good Schools
Retail and Service Amenities
Growing revenues for most
Jobs
Infrastructure that is fairly new or has been maintained
Moderate poverty Rate
No over abundance of Section 8
Not dependent on federal funds to just get by
Progressive leadership for the most part.
etc.
etc.
etc.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Nov 14 2010 at 10:32am |
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Bill, your analogy with all due respect, is misguided and inaccurate. Duke, Vandy, the schools you reference, have extraordinary academic standards. Hence, you have to be able to get into an Ivy and also be a hell of a football player. Your anlogy is wrong. Middletown isn't playing the cards it was dealt, it dealt itself the cards which has ruined itself, by being an Ohio State and simply being too timid and not recruiting (your analogy not mine) the companies, the talent, and having the vision to look forward. In every facet, it has been "asleep at the wheel."
Go look at the Renaissance area, nothing of substabce has moved there in the years of hype. Look at Monroe and look my gosh, at Miamisburg, and what's there off the exit no, Teradata, booming area around Austin Springs.
Your comparision is like SMU being a powershouse in the 70's when Craig James played there, and then getting itself on probation and falling apart. That's an appropriate analogy, just like Middletown is down for the count.
And Ptty, anyone who thinks Middletown and West Chester or Springboro are having the same problems is smoking something besides a pipe ( at least filled with tobacco). Neither of these cities have houses sitting for 4-6 years on the market. Decline? Yes, same as Middletown---no. Middletown's bottom has not been felt. I gave you an example of 3701 Rosedale, one of many, 2.5 acres, 4000 suare ft, beautiful home, right on Bull's Run easement line, and sold for $150 Kk in August listed at $220,000. You folks who don't get what is going on in Middletown just are in "Obama" land----in other words---DENIAL.
Bill, I mentioned elsewhere read the mayor of Franklin's letter to editor, Carl Bray, on Friday, vs Larry Mulligan. You tell me there is not a difference in style? These attitudes are why these levies pass constantly and why complacency is so widely the norm in this city. Amazingly poor leadership, and its like everyone has these types of problems. Hardly factual.
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Nelson...Himself
MUSA Resident
Joined: Sep 08 2010 Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: Nov 14 2010 at 12:35pm |
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Acclaro,
The past owners of 3701 Rosedale might have blundered in selling their $220,000 home for $150,000.
The should have contacted the Community Revitalization Department to sell it to the City of Middletown.
The City has several million dollars in HUD funds (NSP, HOME and CDBG) to spend extravagantly.
Reviewing the City's real estate transactions from 2003-06 and 2009-Present reveals many failures.
Just think, the City would have purchased 3701 Rosedale for $220,000 and sold it for $150,000 instead.
We badly need the new U.S. House and Senate to begin reigning in the bureaucrats wasteful pork.
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