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Some random musings...

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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 3:14am
...on last night's council meeting:
 
MetroPark guy didn’t really say squat about where the dollars went. He was very vague. The truth is that Middletown gets very little out of their Metro-Park tax dollars.

What, EXACTLY, has Metro-Park done for Sebald Park that benefit’s the average Middletonian, Mr. Metro-Parks guy???

How can someone be an “elector of the city” without being a “resident of the city”???

Of course there are not enough qualified people in Middletown (except of course for MMF, some of whom are from out of town) to sit on boards and commissions, and MMF folks are just too busy to sit on all of the many boards and commissions established in this city. After all, most MMFers just want to be on boards and commissions solely to embellish their resumes--they don’t really intend to serve!!!

According to Ms. G., the direction was determined by the “Finance Committee”!!! Might I remind everyone that the “Finance Committee” and the City Council were ONE AND THE SAME!!! (Except, of course, for yours truly--and after the second meeting of the “Finance Committee” they wouldn’t even tell me when or where the meetings were being held.)

Why is it that every time it sounds as if someone is about to spill the beans about what they were FORCED to do or say (as Chief Botts seemed about to do last night), City Manager Gilleland interjects words along the lines of: “In the interest of keeping things moving along…” and changes the subject???

And, suddenly, once again, the finance Director suddenly “found” enough money “either in the garage charges or the depreciation” to fund a public safety need!!! It’s a miracle how this always seems to occur!!! (Good ol’ Russ didn’t want any part of an open microphone in front of his face during this conversation!!!)

Robinette's little presentation???  Pure B. S.!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nelson...Himself Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 7:14am
SELECTIVE.."Citizens..Participation"..thrives..in..Middletown..government.
 
Mike---
 
Thanks..for..sharing..your..story..about..the.."By..Invitation..Only"..Finance..Committee.
 
How..sad..that..City..staff/Committee..members..didn't..advise..you..of..meeting..dates/times.
 
Then..there..was..the..now-defunct..Consolidated..Planning..Advisory..Committee..(CPAC).
 
When..member..Chris..Amburgey..wanted..a..HUD..audit..the..committee..was..abolished.
 
Just..ask..Paul..Renwick/Robin..M...French/Walter..Leap/Bert..Grimes/Rosa..Lean..Lindsey.
 
Skip..Batten..and..I..presented..them..and..other..CPAC..members..with..written..proof.
 
The..so-called..Committee..now..includes..Judy..and..Doug's..usual..suspects.
 
And..that's..how..the..story..continues..to..go..in..the..City..of..the..MMF!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 7:31am
Ok, did Danny Picard actually tell Laubach to shut up while he was speaking? Mercy! And where was the mayor to oversee any verbal confrontation such as this? Did the mayor try to keep order? Mr. Picard owes Mr. Laubach an apology as this was unprofessional. You would have thought that the decorum would have improved and that members on council would have learned a thing or two from the Laura Williams outbursts, especially since they made it to You Tube. We will never have a decent debate with the current make-up of 4 for the bad guys and 3 for the people. It will always be skewed to do the bidding in the current town-destroying direction with the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse doing the bidding of their anonymous daddies from above who are pulling the strings as to what happens in this town. They then turn it over to Gilleland, Kohler, Robinette and others to execute their desires. Sad state of affairs. Gut it all and start over 'cause it ain't workin' this way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 7:33am
Every meeting is more depressing than the prior...
The citizen is hardly even secondary to the employees and selected special interests.
 
Mr.Picard didn't mind interrupting Ms.Scott Jones in mid-sentence to make his motion for a vote a few meetings ago. Should she have told him  to shut up while she was talking?
 
Plenty of qualified citizens to fill boards/commissions if they are not scared off. Will qualified citizens be excluded for out-of-town "experts" now? Why would an out-of-town "expert" want to serve without compensation?
 
Vote NO on everything
Replace everyone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 9:15am
 Viet Vet and Spiderjohn are correct:

"We will never have a decent debate with the current make-up of 4 for the bad guys and 3 for the people. It will always be skewed to do the bidding in the current town-destroying direction with the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse doing the bidding of their anonymous daddies from above who are pulling the strings as to what happens in this town. They then turn it over to Gilleland, Kohler, Robinette and others to execute their desires. Sad state of affairs. Gut it all and start over 'cause it ain't workin' this way." Viet Vet 

"Every meeting is more depressing than the prior... The citizen is hardly even secondary to the employees and selected special interests."  Spider John

It is time to expose the true situation and name names in order to put an end to the corruption. Its been my observation throught the years and it is my opinion that the line of command is something like this:
The real city leaders are people like Doug McNeil, Bill Akers, the Cohen family, Jim Wainscott, Knight Goodman, etc.. They make the decisions and pass it on down. The second tier runs interference for them with people like Mike Scorti, Paul Nenni, Bill Triick, Ann Mort, etc.. It then goes down to their flunkies on council and the administration. Thats also where the money flows to get them elected.
 
If you don't believe that then follow the money from Middletown Moving Forward since 2005 and look at the names and their special interests involved. Middletown Moving Forward is totally illegal (like a lot of things) because the city attorney Les Landen is the attorney for Middletown Moving Forward as well as the city. It is an outright conflict of interests and which is why he slants all legislation the way he does.
 
It is time to stop the corruption and give the citizens a break. The city leaders need to straighten their flunkies out and get rid of Les Landen, Judy Gilliland and Marty Kohler to start. They need to do a complete overhaul on the city's finances and set the city in a new direction. Due to their actions and funneling to their special Interests and all of the public fighting our city image is really, really terrible. Its time to change it. If they don't step forward then we need an uprising from the citizens that will bring an investigation from the State (which they will be experts in covering up). Then we need to get a petition  or wait and go to the polls and change council as Spiderjohn has often pointed out.  Enough is enough and I'm willing to pay the price after that spectacle last night.
 
Paul Nagy

How about you?  Will you speak out  and stand up to them? If so, then do it. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 9:30am
Sewer fund on yer water bill:
 
When this first started,  at a Wildwood school tax levy forum I ?ed the city manager Mr.Becker about this new charge. Mr.Marconi and Mr.Duritsch were quick to explain that this fund was started to cover sewer improvements, particularly the very expensive fix in the former downtown area.
 
I would like to know just how much $$ has been collected to date, how much is reserved for the former downtown area sewer project, and how the rest of the collected $$ has been spent.
Bo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 9:44am
Do we all remember just a few short years ago, well it appears that we are digressing to that situation once again, and people and city officials get on the posters on Middletown USA, go figure.  The last two meetings by City Officials have been an embarrassment to this city and a disservice to the citizens.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 11:08am

Maddening watching that meeting go on and on.  Other than Picard's rude outbrust, it was the AJ show -- rambling on just  to hear himself speak, asking silly questions, and practically asking the fire chief out on a date.  Josh seems like he is now trying to be contrary over even minor issues -- as if the earlier criticism from MUSA hurt him.  C'mon folks, the issue of non-residents on boards and committees isn't that big of an issue and one that can't be monitored.  Just vote yes or no and move on with things.  No Mr. Nagy, I don't need to hear the ideology of someone who likes to act like he lived in 1776. 

And ASJ spouted off about the 4-3 split as if it were something sinister.  Not sure where she was heading with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:07pm
Bill, I disagree with you, I think you should have to live here to be on these boards. Too many people making decisions about this town live elsewhere now. IMO
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:16pm
Bill, why is it always not a big deal in Middletown?  Do me a favor Bill go to Franklin, Monroe, West Chester, Dayton, or any city of your choice and get on any Board.  I would be curious if it were allowed or even legal in anyother city. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Bill Bill wrote:

...C'mon folks, the issue of non-residents on boards and committees isn't that big of an issue and one that can't be monitored.  Just vote yes or no and move on with things. ...
Not a big issue???  Sorry, Bill, but I must disagree.
 
You see, here is the law, copied and pasted exactly from Middletown's Codified City Ordinances:

§ 260.03 RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT.

Every member of any City board or commission shall be a resident of the City.
 
So, for years, this and previous city councils have been BREAKING THE LAW, and our sorry excuse for a City Law Director has sat silently by and let them do so without saying a word!!!  Yet he advocates hounding the citizenry for huge fines for each and every tiny, obscure infraction that city hall can dig up!!!
 
Can it be "monitored"???  One would think so, but apparently our present City Law Director is just NOT up to the task!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:25pm
Ah Bill,
      Finally, we have somethings that we agree on. I absolutely agree with you that it was maddening watching that meeting go on and on. I also agree that Mr. Dan Picard's outburst was rude.
      But thats about it for what we agree on. Personally I like AJ asking questions. Thats how you find out what is really going on. I also like his admiration for the fire chief. I happen to agree that our Fire Chief is the best we could possibly have. He is a professional's professional. We need more like him. He and his crew keep us all safer and put their lives on the line for us.
       Now, as For Mr. Josh Laubaugh. I don't see him being contrary over minor isssues. I see him standing up for principles of government that this city needs and have been ignored for far to long.. Representatives of the government are supposed to be servants of the electrorate that put them in office to represent them. They are not supposed to be Lords over us, corrupt and constantly serving special interests. He is absolutely correct when he says that non-residents on our boards and commisions are not representative of our community. By the very nature of the situation a non-resident cannot act in the best interests of the residents because he doesn't pay for the privilege and neither does he have the residents experience living with the situation as the resident does. And the point about not finding a qualified resident for a board appointment is always moot. Look how many unqualified people we have on boards now. But, I'm so thankful they are there. Yes, Bill you do need to hear his ideology of representative democracy because even here you are arguing against it. 
        Thanks for your post. Your speaking out is what democracy is all about. Ask Mr. Laubaugh.
         Paul Nagy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:31pm
Thought I read where the current member policy requires only those who reside in the city can be board members, UNLESS there is a "special expertise" that is required for the specific board. Guess I would need for them to define what "special expertise" is. I would also, knowing them and the lack of a trust factor here, like to know why, all of a sudden, they are wanting to make it official for outsiders to serve on our local boards/committees when all this time, there have been folks who live outside the city and serve anyway. Why now, do they want to bring this up when they have been doing this all along without it being a big issue with the people??? Have they been approached about residence requirements for the boards from a legal standpoint? Do they have some outsiders that they want to bring into the city to strengthen their stranglehold on city affairs? Why now, do they want to make this "outsider" thing official?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:32pm

By the way, certain council members seem to think it takes specialized skills to sit on some of these boards and commissions. Well, apparently whoever designed and approved the application form does not agree. Please consider the following copied and pasted exactly from the “APPLICATION FOR CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS”:

“Please use the following space to identify any information which may assist the City Council in considering you for appointment, keeping in mind that most of the Boards and Commissions do not require specialized skills other than a strong interest in and desire to serve the Middletown City Government and the citizens of this community. “ [Emphasis (underlining) was NOT added but was included on the actual application form.]

I suppose perhaps the very same council person who thinks it takes “specialized skills” never bothered to read the completed application forms before voting to approve proposed board and commission members or he would have noticed this. Oh well, it sometimes seems that he doesn’t bother to read CITY ORDINANCES before he votes to enact them either!!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 12:50pm

Regarding the “4-3 split”:

The “3” usually state their individual reasons for the way they vote on disputed issues, and their reasons are usually individual--at least to some extent.

On the other hand, the “4” usually sit back in silence and vote as if they had already agreed beforehand.

It is the “4” that appear to vote as a “bloc”.

Here’s to the “3”!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 1:00pm
I might mention that I recreated the "4-3 split" post as best I could from memory from the one that I posted about 3 AM as a comment to The eJournal's story on last night's meeting.  The Journal, for reasons unfathomable to me, saw fit to DELETE my comment.
 
It certainly seems strange--at least to me--that an entity in the "free speech" business is so quick to censor such harmless free speech by others!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

... Please consider the following copied and pasted exactly from the “APPLICATION FOR CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS”:

“Please use the following space to identify any information which may assist the City Council in considering you for appointment, keeping in mind that most of the Boards and Commissions do not require specialized skills other than a strong interest in and desire to serve the Middletown City Government and the citizens of this community. “ [Emphasis (underlining) was NOT added but was included on the actual application form.]

...

Just exactly WHY would someone who does NOT reside in the city have "a strong interest in and desire to serve the Middletown City Government and the citizens of this community."???  Just owning or running a business in the city would NOT be a reason, as the good of THE BUSINESS would surely conflict with the good of the city.  In fact, owning or running a business would PRECLUDE anyone from serving on any board or commission that deals with the issues pertaining to that business!!! 

That is why we have "conflict of interest" laws in this state!!!  (Granted, Middletown's city hall usually chooses to IGNORE such laws, but the laws exist, nonetheless!!!)
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

... Just exactly WHY would someone who does NOT reside in the city have "a strong interest in and desire to serve the Middletown City Government and the citizens of this community."???  Just owning or running a business in the city would NOT be a reason, as the good of THE BUSINESS would surely conflict with the good of the city.  In fact, owning or running a business would PRECLUDE anyone from serving on any board or commission that deals with the issues pertaining to that business!!! 
That is why we have "conflict of interest" laws in this state!!!  (Granted, Middletown's city hall usually chooses to IGNORE such laws, but the laws exist, nonetheless!!!)
From the last three lines (immediately above the "signature" space) of the "APPLICATION FOR CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS":

"Being appointed to a City Board, Commission or Committee makes you a “Public Official”. Please acknowledge by your signature that you understand you cannot have any interest in any contract with the City."

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 11:30am

Some things I noticed from the last council meeting:

NO PERSONNEL CUTS - Meaning enough money will be stolen from other accounts to keep the bloated payroll intact with raises. So no money for pool, parks, cemetery, hydraulic canal, separate combined sewers, maintain our streets or anything else that would actually help Middletown attract businesses or non-section 8 people. Remember that over 80% of the over-paid people that get these city paychecks live outside of Middletown. Taking all those millions of dollars out of Middletown, instead of being churned here in town, will keep us poor and a low income slum. Every dollar kept in town and churned has a six dollar positive effect. So if $4 million a month leaves town, with these carpetbaggers, that is like removing $24 million every month from our economy. No city our size can rebound or even maintain our economic future with these losses. I’m sure that Mr. Dillman, other local stores, local restaurants, and local retail stores would love to have that money spent locally. The carpetbaggers remind me of W.C. Fields when asked about joining a country club. His response was that he would never join a club that would have him as a member. Our carpetbaggers would never live in a city that would have them as an employee. The carpetbaggers come here and destroy our city but go home elsewhere so they don’t have to put up with the corruption that they inflict on the citizens of Middletown.

Did Judy really say that average police response time was between 4 and 5 minutes? Hahahahahahaha At the previous meeting didn’t the man talking about Jacot Park say that it took an hour and a half for police to respond to his call? When I heard this, I thought that police response was faster than usual because it was city owned property.

Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 11:40am
Thank you for your concerns and comments, Mr.Kidd.
Right on about how the $$ is being spent.
I think that you have made your case very well over the last few days.
 
Wondering when Mtown will post some facts to back up that smack, and post some "good news" about our future direction and decisions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 12:31pm
I guess today is the day for me to break my silence.
Several citizens that have family buried at the
Middletown Cemetery have filed complaints with the State of Ohio and I will be filing also.
We will present our case to the state mid December.
So this may be the reason that the City decided to make it legal for Fred Wehr to serve as chairman of the Middletown Cemetery Board. I believe that those that have family member buried in this cemetery should be on this board. Tango is correct it doesn’t take an expert to see what is wrong with this cemetery.
However I have great concerns that the City has changed the law to apply to ALL boards.
As I have said many times on this blog the Middletown Cemetery is not in compliance with ORC 4767.06 and the City has known this fact for many years and has refused to take action to correct the problems.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 4:46pm
Spider, the truth about the storm water sewer fund-If you remember when a previous council told us that the storm water sewer charge was "federally mandated charge"? That was a lie! That was a scheme hatched in our city building to steal more money from the citizens, because council can raise water and sewer rates without a vote of the citizens. This money should go into an enterprise fund. Check with the city building about how much of the (if I remember right) $3 million per year is in the fund or been used for storm water sewers. I think you will find zero to be both answers. Remember that the small amount on residential property is dwarfed by the charges on business property. On commercial property the charge is based on the square footage of impervious area including roofs and parking lots. Even gravel parking lots are counted so the city can steal more money. If I remember the water bill on the old Wards building increased about $400 a month. Another welcome for businesses wanting to locate in Middletown! If you use a large building for several employees the city will steal hundreds of dollars a month under this ill-conceived plan. This doesn't count the sewer separation fund, billed under sewer on our water bills for about thirty five years, which was also an enterprise fund with hundreds of millions of dollars missing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 5:47pm

This whole “let’s allow non-residents on boards and commissions” thing is ridiculous on the face of it. It is not only completely unnecessary, but also demonstrates both the highhandedness of those who favor it and the low regard they have for the citizenry of Middletown.

Let’s examine the issue:

First, let’s blow Councilman Picard’s stance completely out of the water by taking it one step farther: He says, for example, that since no one in the city knows as much about running a cemetery as Fred Wehr, but since Mr. Wehr does not reside in the city, then non-residents should be allowed on the cemetery board.

Well, Councilman Picard, right now City Council is in charge of the cemetery, so following your own logic, perhaps you should:

  1. Propose a charter amendment to allow non-residents of the city to be appointed to City Council.
  2. Suggest to the remainder of council that Mr. Wehr be appointed to fill YOUR seat.
  3. Resign!

To go a step farther, no one in Middletown has as much experience in turning around a failing city as Rudy Giuliani. Once again, using Councilman Picard’s logic, non-residents should be allowed on City Council and Councilman Picard should resign in favor of someone such as Mr. Giuliani.

No, fellow Middletonians. Here is what Mr. Picard and others who favor non-residents on boards and commissions do not seem to understand:

Middletown needs good citizens who are residents of Middletown and have this city’s best interests at heart in all of these types of positions!!! These good citizens do not necessarily need specialized knowledge. Although I do acknowledge that such specialized knowledge would be an asset, there are other ways that such knowledge can be accessed. It is up to each board or commission to seek the input that they need, but do not possess internally, in order to advise city council on matters under their purview.

I fear that Mr. Picard and his cohorts do not even understand the true and legal purpose of the majority of Middletown’s boards and commissions. They have routinely allowed (and even encouraged) them to act illegally, and the City Law Director has sat silently by as if nothing wrong was transpiring!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Nick_Kidd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 7:16pm

Mike, I do not know Fred Wehr and do not presume to speak for him. I think that in this case getting him to come to a cemetery board meeting and giving the board advice would be more likely than getting him to commit to being on a board in Middletown. But I don’t believe this push for outsiders on our boards has anything to do with Fred Wehr. I noticed that when city hall decided to lock the gates of the cemetery at 3:00 P.M. and keep them locked over weekends, they didn’t bother getting any advice from Mr. Wehr. When the city got complaints about the early locking they decided not to lock the gates at all. Did anyone ask Mr. Wehr for advice on this? It appears that city hall did not seek or did not take Mr. Wehr’s advice before, so why the sudden emergency to violate our charter to get him on a board now? Would he even serve on a board for the city? I repeat that I think this has more to do with the MMFers than it does Mr. Wehr.

Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 7:50pm
It could also be tied to the fact that they have other outsiders already on other boards, such as the Airport Board.
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