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spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
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Joined: Jul 01 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: a ?
    Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 5:11pm
Seems as if this forum, particularly the regular posters, is viewed quite negatively by the City Council/Admin, the artsy crowd, the "stakeholders" and the MJ trolls.
 
Are we really that way?
 
There are many part-timers and lurkers--so please come out of the closet and tell me/us what you REALLY think!
 
SWOhio-SupportMiddietown-Marianne-newbies and unknowns
Let's hear it honestly!
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Bill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
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Joined: Nov 04 2009
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Points: 710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 6:58pm
I would like to know their true identities too...or at least their status like city employee, concerned downtown business owner, relative of Marty Kohler, etc.
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randy View Drop Down
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Joined: Jan 13 2009
Location: Middletown
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Points: 1586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 7:09pm

We are hated that is for sure!! But I would rather they hate me. I am not a part of their group nor do I share their ideas for my city. I actually care about Middletown and am not looking to serve my own selfish views as they are.

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Joined: May 15 2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 8:09pm
I think we're on the right side here. I have read some of the anti-MUSA posts in the Journal. They mention our inability to organize, our continual negative criticism of the city leaders, continually throwing up "roadblocks" to progress, and that the MUSA forum is controlled by 6-8 repeat posters. They also mention that most who read MUSA, never return nor post here. Yeah, they hate us. I'm quite proud of that myself. At least I'm not a lapdog for the Queen and her court jesters in the city building. Why they support the city leaders when it is so obvious that they are not good for this city is beyond me. Hard to see their perspective when we are introduced almost daily to something the leaders have bungled and some of the pitiful decisions they have made in the past that have been a catastrophe. They are the deniers of fact for some reason. Can't figure out how they can blindly support these people and are so clueless as to what is really happening in this town.
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Chief Whatdahey View Drop Down
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Joined: Aug 23 2010
Location: Middletown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chief Whatdahey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 8:30pm
I am new to the forums, but have been watching (lurking) them for quite a long time. I usually agree with the opinions expressed about the direction, or better yet the decline, of this once great city. It would seem that what I witnessed as a city employee has only gotten worse, in that pet downtown projects of the alleged elite, always seem to get the money and what really should be tended to, languishes in red tape, bureacracy, or laziness. So yes, I usually support the opinion of the more common posters on this forum, and can't beleive how quickly this town has gotten on the express track to decline.
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jag123 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
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Joined: Nov 05 2009
Location: Middletown
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Points: 143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jag123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 8:44pm
My many friends and I all agree that the city is slipping faster than a bald tire Edsel on ice. Changes are needed now in city hall. Ms. G. and Mr. R. seemed detrimed to bring morale in the city building as low as possible. Council needs to be on Springer and decisions like the one just made for downtown appear to be out-of-touch with what the citizens wants. Let's hope that council wakes up soon and looks at itself and their #1 employee, sees the light and make a change. JMOErmm
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Wots View Drop Down
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Joined: Mar 18 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 9:48pm
SpiderJohn
 
My family moved out of Middletown many years ago. I stop by every few years.  It makes me sad to see the continuing decay and decline (same thing happening here in Chicago).The answer is not putting art in the old downtown area. Obviously  there are more pressing issue's. City hall is in it for them self's and there cronies.  
When I found out that they were tearing down a lot of the old schools I thought that the city was doing very well. I even thought that I would move back after I retired. Man how things have changed. They should have kept the old schools and used that money for quality teaching staff. 
 
btw   when did they shut down St Mary's ( 3912 Central) ?
Wots
Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers.
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Bill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
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Joined: Nov 04 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 6:54am
St, Mary's was leveled so a new Middletown Senior Center could be built....maybe 4-5 years ago.
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409 View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
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Joined: Mar 27 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 9:24am
Spidey.....They may view us as negative......however.....how can you look at the waste of taxpayer money in a positive light? It seems like in recent history, these large expenditures are not for the majority of us bagholders (as Mike would call us), but for the chosen few. A bike path instead of city energy efficiency, for example. Wonder if the PAC deal includes a bike rack? If not, emergency legislation will work! Wink 
 
Aug 8, 2006     St. Mary's
 
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409 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 9:27am
I should have added that I hope the PAC is a success. It simply should have been done with private funds!
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 9:56am
I continue to be stunned at how council, Judy, Mr. K, and the pseudo-wealthy pretenders can think this is going to work.
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Bobbie View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
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Joined: Jun 05 2009
Location: Middletown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 10:29am
I think it is a little ironic that they talk so bad about MUSA - but they obviously read it all the time.  I think you usually find out out that a lot of people are followers.  You have the elite of Middletown wanting the PAC center - and then you have the followers that would do anything or say anything to be accepted.  That is just my view of the gang toasting to the PAC center. 
 
I really think they are afraid of MUSA - because people have the option to say what they think.  I think if they would have taken the deal to the voters - it never would have passed.  I have yet to see any logical explanation from anyone on why they think it will help revive Middletown.  A monthly sale will not bring business to Downtown.  People may come to buy art - but they will just plan to eat, and shop by the highway or the Cin outlet malls. 
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Joined: Jun 02 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 9:08pm
You guys need to take what is being said over at the MJ in the comments section with a grain of salt.  I have yet to see any conversation on any article that hasn't digressed into name calling and fighting among themselves.  Take the comments on a matter as simple as the new ride coming to King's Island, they are over there now just going at each other with the name calling and insults.
 
I think many of them don't come here and post because they can't come up with an effective stance on the issues, such as Pendleton Art Center.  I can tell you for a fact that I get many people that come into my business and some quote statistics right off this site and they have no clue who I am when they start talking about it.  No one has ever stated to me that this site is made up of a bunch of complainers.  They may not participate but they are thankful for the info they get from this site.
 
Personally I have no problem if someone would come on here and explained in detail why the Pendleton Art Center was going to be a success, presenting an alternative view and I mean something more than they have one in Over the Rhine or in Ashland.
 
The PAC issue was never about Art, it was about Taxpayer dollars funding a Private Enterprise for a very wealthy individual.  It was about the Citizens of Middletown who pay the taxes being told:
 
1)  The Citizens would like a Pool.
 
City says we have no money.
 
2) The Citizens want their roads and infrastructure repaired or replaced.
 
City says we have no money.
 
3)  Citizens want grass mowed at vacant homes and their Parks maintained.
 
City says we have no money.
 
4)  Citizens want their roads plowed in winter.
 
City Says we have no money. 
 
At just about every turn what the citizens want is denied due to a lack of funds.  Yet we foot the Bill for a PAC and a Bicycle Path and now there is talk of a Bark Park.  I don't get it.
 
Tell me why our tax dollars have to foot the bill for an Art Center that they even stated at the last meeting wasn't viable if it had any debt that it had to repay, like Repairs and Improvements to the building and monthly lease payments, etc.  If the PAC can't survive with the normal expenditures that any business has to endure, how are the ancillary businesses that it is suppose to spawn going to survive downtown having to pay these same expenses?  Are we the taxpayer's going to foot the bill for them also?  How many restaurants and coffee shops, etc, are 20-50 artists going to support?  Anyone.
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Nelson Self View Drop Down
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Joined: Aug 17 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nelson Self Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 9:20pm
Middletown desperately needs transparent and accountable municipal government.
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rngrmed View Drop Down
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Joined: May 06 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 10:03pm
I also find it very intriguing that NONE of the council members will not address any of the above concerns.    Since the Sutphin Street project is over budget and funding is low and giving the time in the year, are the other streets that were named to be paved done?  There are some vehicles parked on Holly Ave, but what about Bellemonte?  The others?
 
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409 View Drop Down
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Joined: Mar 27 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 10:50pm
Pac.....I noticed there were 45 guests on this site about 10:20 PM.
I wonder just who some of these guests might be? Big%20smile
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2010 at 11:20pm

Well stated, Pacman!!!

On a related subject (related to yur item #3): We were said to be so short of grass-mowing money over the summer. Yet, I had several occasions to go through the intersection of Central Avenue and Carmody Boulevard and, at all times I noticed that not only all of Bicentennial Commons but also the “enhanced” parking lot across the street were immaculately groomed at all times!!!

Now, I’m not saying that this “gateway” should be ignored and left to go to seed, but would it really matter to let the grass here get up to say, six inches, between mowings??? Then perhaps some of the other properties that are nearly THIRTY inches or more could be tended to just a bit!

I mean it’s not like there is an event at Bicentennial Commons every YEAR!!!

(Can anyone remember the LAST event there, or does anyone know when the NEXT one is scheduled??? Perhaps it is an Indian burial mound and the City is just fulfilling its cemetery maintenance obligations???)

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2010 at 6:48am
I remember them using the Commons for the Bluesfest one year. Mosquitos were so bad coming from the river as the evening approached, that it made it somewhat uncomfortable sitting there for any length of time. Also remember reading about some band or group practice sessions being held there years ago. Hasn't been used in a long time for any city function. However, it has a spiffy new parking lot to handle the huge crowds that attend the Commons and is a focal point for the newly paid for bike path., coupled with those engraved bricks and the stairway entry as one looks out at Lake Middletown. I'm feeling a tad bit prideful about now. and I hope my city leaders feel the same!
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Joined: Jul 01 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2010 at 7:13am
I predict that the Pendleton decision will go down as one of the worst moves in area history(and that area is loaded with terrible conflicting decisions). The large majority of citizens are still shaking their heads in doubt over the giveaway.
 
Mr.R will be long gone, and the 26 speaking lemmings from the Council meeting will go silent about their support. Still--7 Council members will never escape their association with this un-necessary theft of taxpayer funding in a city failing most of the basic requirements for this level of bureaucracy. They all voted for it as am emergency, when they knew that the public was divided and still had ?s on the reason for the conditions.
 
As for the 26 egos speaking in favor of public bailouts, they may have cried "wof" once too often. Next time that they show up "en masse"(Main St.Project?), I hope Council has the backbone to stand up and "Just Say No".
 
Does no one believe in private sector responsibility any more?
Has bailout/stimulus htsteria overtaken virtually everyone?
Seems that way with desperate governments.
 
Pac Man nailed it very well.
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Storm Ahead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Storm Ahead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2010 at 1:19pm
I'm pretty new here myself (to this forum). I love it most when you bring facts here. Facts I say! FACTS! Sometimes you guys do stretch things a little to continue a theme and are maybe a little thin-skinned periodically, but by and large you ask alot of the right questions. THAT'S the reason you have so many GUESTS reading what you write. (I hope your city council picks up on them.) The only other thing you can possibly do is find and back your own boys and gurls for office.
Stormy
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2010 at 4:22pm
So Storm, if you know the facts then lets hear them.  Sometimes the Facts in this town are hard to come by.  If you are the gurl with the facts and there are some errors here lets hear it, I am sure we would all like the facts and other opinions on this forum, to make a more informed decision.Thumbs%20Up
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accuro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote accuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2010 at 10:21pm

spiderjohn, I am uncertain why you or anyone would be concerned about a minority perception of a few intellectual capitalists whom run the city. Middletown has been run into the round. I spoke recently to a realtor and property values are about 50% of where they were 5 years ago if one truly wants to sell a house, otherwise, it sits, and it won't be getting better.

You all don't seem to get the manner city hall works. They are followers who grab onto anything they can, and that buys them time to ride out the storm, put a spin on a transformation initiative, and then retire before the failure sets in.
 
The Pendleton project is one which may have success in the event enough traffic for the artist series would be willing to come to Middletown vs driving to Over The Rhine. But, in reality, a city with a downtown does not make for a thriving community; ergo, Mason- filled with a pizza shop, a bakery, and a few law firms, but has schools which resemble sprawling universities, and a municipal building which dwarfs the Towne Mall.
 
The success of the stained glass facility has absolutely nothing to do with Middletown. I assume its  a success but I haven't read their balance sheet, but it doesn't employ hundreds of workers. Its a niche which caters to those with Victorian homes and a penchant for restoration, and could easily sit in Germantown, Franklin, or Eaton, and be every bit as successful. MUM cannot fill its auditorium, and its focused upon arts and entertainment. 56 Degrees could not be sustained. As for artists, well, its nice Pat Brewer and the woman who owns the gallery at the intersection of Breihel and University will have free rent and exposure, but honestly, who is going to drive downtown to view art? The Dean of Hamilton (former) stated MUM could not even sustain break-even, so how would the PAC succeed? Its draw would be a few of the Stefano crowd dropping in occasionally to mingle, and discuss Rembrant skills vs Van Gogh.
 
One assumes the city considers it 'art' to have the 12 inch grass growing out of the streets with cracks. I found it amusing it took the city workers two weeks to simply fill cracks just on Rosedale and paint the sewers green.
 
As property values plummet, real estate stagnates ( ask Martin Bidwell how he is doing selling his Central home for $450 Kk), the city still is in denial, pontificates about its assets such as the airport, golf course, and its epic art center. 200 of the Mnachester clan can't put a dent in the city's failures, and stupidity once again rears its ugly head; a school levey renewal is passed with another 5/20 performance. This city and its apathetic citizens desire everything it has gotten, and its citizens have lost at least 50% of their property valuation, but continue to let a handful rule the kingdom.
 
The least of the city's problems is the PAC, but evidently for many, it is not a known fact Middletown is the center for fine arts, with its MSO, the guest conductor program, the sculture classes offered at the Art Center. Evidently, the target is retirees, because the upscale young adults might enjoy the classics, but prefer being able to drive without damaging the struts and having to buy gallons of weed killer, to tend to grass growing out of the cracks. Amazing just a handful of people could unleash such complete and utter destruction, which most just sit back and sigh, without an utterance of anger nor regret.
 
A pity, indeed.    
 
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers
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Storm Ahead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Storm Ahead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 28 2010 at 11:53am
Please read again Wasteful. I didn't say there were errors, only that I love facts. As a single mother of two I know how important it is to keep an eye on expenses vs income. Then I have to decide what I have available will be spent on; what my priorities will be. Governments are no different. They have ledgers, flow of funds, issued checks. And it's all public record. They either give information freely or you file a Freedom Of Information Act form and get it eventually. With a nickname like Wasteful, I'm sure you're interested in the facts. Otherwise, how can you prove anything is wasteful?
 
Ms. Vivian, Mr. Self and others present facts and name the sources. Others here provide documented history of things. I'm just a gurl trying to do her job and raise her children. My hair dresser (budget permits once a month) said I may want to take a look at this forum. I make my own decisions, but my daddy taught me to get the facts before I do.
 
I thank you though. You are either a gentleman or lady for acknowledging that I exist. Smile
Stormy
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