curbs,gutters and aprons

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   Since residents of Ohio are responsible for the upkeep of sidewalks, gutters and aprons in front of their homes and that is where trash is put does that mean a warrant would be needed to search it.  Also does that mean you can legally keep from going through your trash since it is your property they are coming on to now?

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rngrmed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309	Post Options Post Reply Quote rngrmed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: curbs,gutters and aprons Posted: Jun 11 2010 at 12:13pm
	Since residents of Ohio are responsible for the upkeep of sidewalks, gutters and aprons in front of their homes and that is where trash is put does that mean a warrant would be needed to search it. Also does that mean you can legally keep from going through your trash since it is your property they are coming on to now?

lrisner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330	Post Options Post Reply Quote lrisner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 11 2010 at 11:33pm
	Once you put the Trash at the curb, the Law presumes you have waived all rights to it. So, no warrant is needed.

rngrmed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309	Post Options Post Reply Quote rngrmed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 12 2010 at 12:26am
	I agree, at least what I have always been told. I'm no lawyer by any means, but curious because Ohio makes homeowners responsible for that area. Could it be argued that is now part of their property??? I guess you still are giving up your expectation of privacy because you expect it to be taken to the trash. Really trying to make an argument against the upkeep of the curbs etc. and what rights you would be entitled to because we do... wonder if someone has tried to argue this point?!?!

lrisner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330	Post Options Post Reply Quote lrisner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 12 2010 at 4:48pm
	It is YOUR property, the Public just has a right of way. Therefore, it is YOUR curb and sidewalk. The Public just has the right to use it.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 7:26am
	Irisner- I may be wrong on this but I heard a different version of property lines. I have always been under the impression that your property line ends at the inside of the sidewalk. The sidewalk on out to the curb..... that is the city's property. The property owner is responsible for maintaining the sidewalk, the driveway apron and the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the curb, even though the city legally owns that area. Don't know for sure if this is correct, but for years, have always been under this impression.

wasteful Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793	Post Options Post Reply Quote wasteful Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 8:34am
	Maybe this is one of those issues that should be brought to the voters. Personally Sidewalks, Curbs and Gutters should be a City maintained item not the Landowner. The whole city benefits from the Sidewalks, Curbs and Gutters. Would This be good item for a referendum? If the city ever gets the money to start really repairing the road infrastructure this could be a heavy burden on many landowners in this city, as the infrastructure has been allowed to deteriorate by the city for far to long. I think the keyword in the ORC is "MAY": "729.01 Construction or repair of sidewalks, curbs, and gutters at expense of owners. In addition to the power conferred upon municipal corporations under section 727.01 of the Revised Code to construct sidewalks, curbs, or gutters and levy an assessment therefor, the legislative authority of a municipal corporation may require the construction or repair of sidewalks, curbs, or gutters within the municipal corporation by the owners of lots or lands abutting thereon, and upon the failure of such owners to construct or repair such sidewalks, curbs, or gutters within the time prescribed in the resolution adopted under section 729.02 of the Revised Code, may cause such sidewalks, curbs, or gutters to be constructed or repaired and assess the total cost thereof against the lots or lands abutting thereon, notwithstanding the provisions of sections 727.03 and 727.05 of the Revised Code. Effective Date: 01-01-1962"

Hermes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hermes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 9:39am
	Good post wasteful,thanks ! Here is what I was told by the "beautification police" (aka Middletown police officer) The homeowners responsibility goes from the rear of the property out to an imaginary line in the middle of the street. The street & sidewalk are included in the width of the owners lot,meaning if your lot is 200 ft wide then that 200 ft includes the street. The owner is responsible for anything & everything on the sidewalk and in the street.This includes the following : Trash,grass,oil stains,chipping of concrete,ice and snow in the winter,etc,etc.... Also included in this is your vehicle.If parked on the street for longer than 24-48 hours it will be towed by police order. So even though your are responsible for the sidewalk and street in front of your lot they can tow your vehicle if they feel it has not been driven in the alloted time frame. Or in my case I was under surveillance for more than a month when the nice officer informed me of all this. I love Middeltown !!!!!
	No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 11:00am
	Hermes- so the officer told you that the property upkeep responsibility goes to the middle of the street on frontage? I think he's full of sh--. If that were the case, the city would be charging each individual resident for street repaving rather than a general levy for street repair, wouldn' they? When someone is assessed on their property taxes, they are assessed for sidewalk, curb and gutter, not the actual street, aren't they? As to a vehicle parked for an extended period of time..... I was under the impression that as long as it was legally registered and licensed, it could sit. We had a car parked on the street that had an expired license plate sticker. We got a little ticket on the windshield giving us 72 hours to get it corrected. We did. This same car sat since before last winter in the same spot as it had engine issues and I wasn't about to go out and fool with it in the winter weather. Never was told to move it. Just sold it so it's no longer an issue as it's gone. This must not be enforced consistently then.

Hermes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hermes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 7:43pm
	Vet - yep that is exactly what he said,"frontage out into the middle of the street to an imaginary line". Now he did not say I was responsible for "street repairs" he did say I was responsible for "grass growing in the cracks of the asphalt and oil stains". I followed orders like the good citizen I am and sprayed for weeds and moved my vehicle. (When I say weeds I mean grass in cracks maybe 1/2 in or less tall) this is in the street. City ordinance # blah blah blah (I can't remember the number) does say 24-48 hours I think. Could be a little longer.The police consider it abandoned even though the plates are current and it is insured. But consider too that the city is on the brink of bankruptcy so a few cars sold at auction could help fill the coffers.
	No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 8:03pm
	The officer has been smoking too much of this "grass" that he refers to. He actually said that the residents are responsible for the grass that is growing in the cracks in the streets? You mean the same streets that haven't been paved and maintained for the last 30 to 40 years, depending on where one lives? The same streets that have crumbled so badly, that some are down to the substrate in places, promoting said weed/grass growth pushing up through the pavement? You mean the citizens will have to pay for the city's negligence......again? He mentioned an "imaginary" line. I think he has an "imaginary" friend that he talks to once in awhile. This must have stock in the company that makes Roundup. As to the towing of licensed, registered vehicles and the so-called "abandonment" of vehicles when left parked for 24-48-72 hours or whatever the damn ordinance says......what happens if a family goes on vacation, leaves junior's car out on the street and returns from vacation and the car is towed? I would imagine there will be some pretty pissed people knocking down Gilleland's door complaining about this idiotic ordinance. I know I'd be just a tad bit irritated, but then again, that doesn't take much anymore with these morons.

rngrmed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309	Post Options Post Reply Quote rngrmed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 11:02pm
	SO if I have a long weekend, my car can be towed because I park my car in front of my house from Thursday evening til Monday morning?? Maybe that only applies to us "trouble makers". Hell, if you drive through Ayershire Acres (Holly Ave, Boylston, Tremont, Victoria etc.) you can find several cars that have been parked in the street for months and years... Curious as to why Hermes was under surveillenace, that would warrant an officer telling you have to move your vehicle. Are they looking to see if they can you for tax fraud now?? Maybe for littering in your yard.

Eleven Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jun 01 2010 Location: Middletown, Oh Status: Offline Points: 30	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eleven Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 13 2010 at 11:47pm
	Did someone mention fighting this? Better hope it doesn't make it's way up to our fine Ohio Supreme Court lol But for now, yes. The police is are allowed to go through your curbside trash AND they do!! My argument is...I thought Rumpke are considered the owners of said trash once it hits the curb. I've read somewhere that is against the law to pick up any recycleables set out at the curb bc it is Rumkes property. Anyone heard anything along those lines?

rngrmed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309	Post Options Post Reply Quote rngrmed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 14 2010 at 1:35am
	As far as "the public" having the right of way on the sidewalks our neighbors park their cars at the end of their driveway blocking the sidewalks every day and not a word is said to them. Not to mention another of their vehicles has been there since the winter...then again, they go with whatever the city tells them too..

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun 14 2010 at 7:43am
	Eleven you wouldn't have to fight the State Law, all you have to do is take out the Local Ordinace. Just put it on the Ballot and remove the section in red and re-word Section (D) so the city must repair the Sidewalks, Curbs and Gutters. § 660.05 DUTY TO KEEP SIDEWALKS IN REPAIR AND CLEAN. (a) No owner or occupant of lots or lands abutting any sidewalk, curb or gutter shall fail to keep the sidewalks, curbs and gutters in repair and free from snow, ice or any nuisance, and to remove from such sidewalks, curbs or gutters all snow and ice accumulated thereon within a reasonable time, which will ordinarily not exceed 12 hours after any storm during which the snow and ice has accumulated. (ORC 723.011) (b) (1) No owner, occupant or any person having the care or control of any building or lot of land bordering on any street within the City where there is a graded or graded and paved sidewalk, shall, within the first four hours after daylight after the ceasing to fall of any snow, including the falling of snow or ice from any building, fail to cause the same to be removed from such sidewalk. (2) Whenever the sidewalk or any part thereof, adjoining any building, lot or street becomes encumbered with ice, no owner, occupant or any person having care or control of such building or lot, shall fail to cause such sidewalk to be made safe and convenient by removing the ice therefrom, or by covering the same with sand or some other suitable substance within the space of two hours during the day time. (c) No owner, occupant or any person having the care and control of any building or lot of land abutting any street within the City where there is a sidewalk, shall fail to maintain that portion of the sidewalk abutting his property free from any defect and in repair at all times. Such owner, occupant or person having the care and control of property shall also keep the sidewalk abutting the property fee and clear of mud, dirt, gravel and debris of any kind. (d) (1) The Director of Public Service shall, from time to time, cause an inspection to be made of sidewalks throughout the City. Should any defect appear, the Director shall notify in writing, the owner, occupant or person having the care or control of the property abutting the sidewalk in which the defect appears. Such notice shall describe the defect and shall order that the same be repaired within fifteen days after receipt of such notice. Within that period of time, no such owner, occupant or person having the care or control of the property shall fail to cause the same to be repaired at his own expense. (2) If it comes to the attention of the Direct that mud, dirt, gravel or debris of any kind has accumulated upon any sidewalk, he or she shall notify the owner, occupant or person having the care or control of the property abutting such sidewalk, directing that the sidewalk be cleared within three days. Within that period of time, no owner, occupant or person having the care or control of the property shall fail to cause the sidewalk to be cleared at his own expense. (Ord. 4420, passed 8-15-1966) (e) Whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor.

curbs,gutters and aprons

"729.01 Construction or repair of sidewalks, curbs, and gutters at expense of owners.