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Question on City Committees |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Aug 11 2008 at 11:27am |
To be a member of any of the committees such as the Golf, Tree or Airport Committees, do you have to be a resident of Middletown? If not, OK. If yes, then why, as I go to each list of members on each committee, are there people listed with non-Middletown addresses and zip codes? The tax committee has members who are not living in this town. Shouldn't that matter? There are also some members on various lists that have no expiration date as to their service on that committee. Sonny Hill is on one committee. Isn't Mr. Hill deceased? How often are these lists reviewed? The Golf Committee has a member that lives in Greycliff, a subdivision beyond Hunter. Should a person not living in Middletown have a decision making position in Middletown? Is residency necessary here? Just asking for info.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Allow me to quote the City of Middletown Codified City Ordinances, which state, in part:
"§ 260.03 RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT. Every member of any City board or commission shall be a resident of the City." Of course, rules and laws don't mean much to our council (which appoints all members of boards and commissions). The City Law Director thinks that "Home Rule" means that council can do what ever they want to do. And whenever any of our council members hears an opinion that they like, regardless of the source or how out of whack it sounds, they usually refuse to consider any other opinion. PS: The two preceeding items in the Codified ordinances compel all boards and commissions to meet at least once a month, and to forward copies of the minutes of each meeting to city council. Has anyone ever seen regular minutes of the Tree Commission, Golf Commission, Historic Landmarks and Buildings Commission, etc.???
The ordinances also state that any board or commission member who misses two consecutive meetings "shall thereupon be automatically dismissed"!!
The laws are just for us little people.
PPS: At least we are sure that Mr. Hill resides inside the city limits, and has no conflicts of interest. In fact, he probably does a better job than any other "council liaison", IMHO.
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HereIam
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 29 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Having a great deal of experience with "City Appointed" committees and boards - they do not require residency. The most important factor on most of these is who knows who.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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HereIam- Somebody's wrong here. Mike Presta shows information that supports residency requirements for any appointed committee seat. Wonder which is correct- your statement or his information? Why would someone who lives outside the city limits be intersted in the the Golf Committee, Tree Committee or others? Why wouldn't they be interested in the same types of committees in the town that they live in? Doesn't make any sense, does it? Mike's information may be something to ask the Council members to clarify in their little "upstairs" meeting before the real meeting" deal.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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So in otherwords the City is breaking its own rules/laws. Is that what we are saying?
§ 260.03 RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT. Every member of any City board or commission shall be a resident of the City. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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I have served on quite a few city boards and committees.
The residency requirement is flaunted often, and enforced when the board leadership wants to exclude a willing participant.
Actual scenerio on the Citizens' Advisory Board to the Police Dept.:
A member was removed unwillingly when she notified of a late residency change to Liberty twp.(actual reason given for her removal). She complained to me(chair of the committee) that other board members at no time have lived in the city and also were representing defunct organizations(which were covered by new members from replacement organizations). I emailed then Mayor Noah Powers for a clarification of the situation, and was not even granted the courtesy of a response, though Mr.Powers acknowledged recieving my email.
Recently the current chair of the same board requested membership for an individual residing in Springboro(has never lived in Middletown-no business in Middletown). Board chair solicited a legal opinion from Mr.Landen and stated he had obtained approval for this board membership.
A blatant inconsistency within city leadership, and constant confusion as to requirements and regulations. People LIKE rules and orderliness. People DO NOT LIKE random uneven enforcement of rules and policies because it creates confusion. A confused citizen is usually an unhappy citizen.
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John Beagle
MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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I am a resident of Monroe but I have sat on numerous Middletown Committees including the BECC, (Business and Education Collaborative Committee), city master plan and the Middletown School Tech Committee.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Good point John. You have a business to run in this city, therefore, you have a vested interest in how the city functions and you want to be involved. To your knowledge, does Monroe have any out of town residents on it's various committees? I'm still wondering why, in Mike's information, that Middletown rules state that one must be a resident of the city to be on a committee and then they turn around and break every rule that they have written. As others have stated, looks like they break those rules to select the ones they want on the committees. Given that, the theme on committee selection is EXCLUSION which appears to be the theme on the Street Repair Committee, Finance Committee and others. Agreement with the city is accepted.Apparently, "outside thinking" and pointing out deficiencies in their game plans is not. In other words, look for no change in operations in this town and open dialogue is not encouraged. If true, we need to purge the club.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Spider says:
"Recently the current chair of the same board requested membership for an individual residing in Springboro(has never lived in Middletown-no business in Middletown). Board chair solicited a legal opinion from Mr.Landen and stated he had obtained approval for this board membership."
My questions are if you are not operating a business in Middletown and you don't live in Middletown;
1) With No ties to the community why would you want to be on a Committee?
2) Why would the City even allow you to be on a Committee, as it requires residency?
3) Why is it OK for the City to waive it rules or laws in situations like this?
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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What I supplied was NOT "Mike's information" nor was it my "opinion" nor was it anything else besides the LAW!!
You can access it for yourself at the City of Middletown's very own web site at: http://middletownusa.com/forum/new_reply_form.asp?TID=509&PN=1&TR=9
The entire Chapter 260 is on page 97 of the Codified ordinances. (This will be page 121 of 1409 of the pdf document you will be opening.)
Here it is, copied and pasted EXACTLY for those of you who may not have the time (or the bandwidth) to download it:
TITLE EIGHT: BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS CHAPTER 260: BOARD AND COMMISSIONS GENERALLY Section 260.01 Required meetings; minutes. 260.02 Failure to attend meetings. 260.03 Residency requirement. CROSS REFERENCES Creation of new offices; change of duties - see CHTR. Art. III, § 7 Public meetings - see ADM. Ch. 208 Falsification - see GEN. OFF. 606.10 Unlawful interest in public contract - see GEN. OFF. 606.17 Soliciting or receiving improper compensation - see GEN. OFF. 606.18 Disturbing a lawful meeting - see GEN. OFF. 648.05 § 260.01 REQUIRED MEETINGS; MINUTES. All City boards and commissions established by Charter, ordinance or the general laws of the State shall meet at least once every month during any calendar year and shall transmit a copy of the minutes of such meeting to the City Council forthwith. (Ord. 2411, passed 1-15-1942) § 260.02 FAILURE TO ATTEND MEETINGS. Any member of any City board or commission established by ordinance who fails to attend two successive meetings of the board or commission to which he or she has been appointed shall thereupon be automatically dismissed as a member of such board or commission and his or her office or place of appointment shall become vacant. (Ord. 2411, passed 1-15-1942) § 260.03 RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT. Every member of any City board or commission shall be a resident of the City. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Mike--we all know that these pesky regulations are like taxes(only for the ltlle people), and are flaunted at whim, depending on whether Council/admin wants you "in or out".
Maybe our new city manager could issue a directive beginning with the new year(2009) appointments/renewals where all recognized city boards would only consist of documented residents, with moving out of the city limits requiring mandatory and immediate removal.
As pacman stated, why would anyone not residing in the city WANT to serve on such boards?
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Mike- Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers on the "Mike's information thing". I thought everyone realized that what you offered was the law. Didn't think it required clarification between "Mike's information" and the law. My apologies.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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wow--obviously these message boards ARE read by many and quickly.
I have already recieved an email response clarifying my prior post about the Springboro resident being approved for city board membership.
Seems said legal opinion only involved said individual being approved as an ADVISOR to the city board. An advisory position was discussed along with board membership(an advisor to the advisory board was the "in-house" humor at the time).
The Springboro gentleman seemed to be a fine individual, willing to serve in a potentially needed capacity, and in no way am I playing down his character and ability.
My focus was strictly the consistent inconsistency within Council/admin on the residency issue regarding city board membership. I have experienced this first hand, and when I requested input from our then mayor, I was completely blown off.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Which brings us to the next nitpicky question. Where in the rules/laws, does it say that an advisor's position is allowed OR, is this another little twist that the city leaders have inserted into the mix for their amusement as they make up said rules? The advisor position was discussed by was it established in the rules? It appears to me that this was a one time thing suggested by some "legal" person with no regard for proper procedures, or, ironically, legality in mind. Just make up the rules for a given situation, as they go along, I guess.
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John Beagle
MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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To my knowledge Monroe only has residents on its committees. Most people do not work in Monroe who sit on the councils, boards and committees.
People who operate their businesses should be heard too. Not just the residents. Property taxes have risen dramatically and income taxes also are above that of Monroe and other areas. However, it is still competitive to operate in Middletown. As long as taxes stay low. I think our City Manager understands that increasing tax rates can actually lower tax revenues. How much would revenues rise if Middletown was competitive with Monroe on a tax rate basis? Employees want lower city income tax rates (Middletown is .25% higher than Monroe) Employers want lower property tax Middletown is becoming pro-Business. Next push is to reduce the size of government. Also utilize services of the county and other organizations to administer social programs. Committees are the answer. Get involved. Join something to help Middletown. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Vet, No problem!
I just wanted to be sure that everyone else had it crystal clear. We are among new folks here!
I consider you a friend. If I had a problem I would've picked up the phone, (and I hope that you feel likewise.)
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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John- you mentioned that employees want lower income tax rates. True. You also mentioned that employers want lower property taxes. So do employees. "Property taxes have risen dramatically" and income taxes are above Monroe's" but it is still competitive AS LONG AS TAXES STAY LOW". John- that's the problem. The income taxes are 1.75%, heading to 2.% (from a long time 1.5% rate.) The property taxes in Middletown, are some of Butler County's highest around. I think one of the many things that is hurting this town is the high taxes paid by the citizens versus the amount of return in services, school performance and non-progressive growth the town offers. People simply don't think they're getting any value for the taxes that they are forced to pay. We keep paying like it's Springboro, but we keep getting a payback like it's -- well- Middletown. "Committees are the answer"- Well--- I believe, based on the statements above, that the committees have a lot of work to do before they can be taken seriously. They're off to a bad start when they can't even follow their own rules as to selection criteria, aren't they? Middletown is "BECOMING pro-business". What caused the "anti business" climate that there is now a need to become"pro-business"? How did we develop a mindset to not welcome more business? Businesses should be heard, not just the residents. John, some residents are not heard either. Depends on who you are in this town.
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