Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Saturday, November 23, 2024
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Feb 2 Council Meeting
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Feb 2 Council Meeting

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Feb 2 Council Meeting
    Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 7:16am
Didn't have a chance to go. Was watching wife all evening after coming home from work.

Questions:

Library Levy-Tabled for now. Article in the Journal on this. Why do we have Doug Bean who is the Director and also have a fiscal officer with an organization that has less than 50 people? Do these people draw a salary? If so, where does their salary money come from? How much do they each make and couldn't we combine the two jobs and downsize one of them? A little top heavy for such a small organization isn't it?

Police negotiations- Unanimous vote. Is the collective bargaining method the only method the city is allowed to use to negotiate raises with the police and fire folks? Is it possible to change this to a merit raise method or do these unions have the city by the throat on this? IMO, giving a raise to someone who has proven they deserve it through their efforts over the year has more credibility than to automatically award the raises across a table, years in advance, without them having to demonstrate improvement. With the current method, we are telling them that they have earned a raise, years from now, sight unseen as to their performance. Illogical.


Buses from Middletown to Oxford. Unanimous vote with one abstention. Were there any questions asked last night on this? Questions such as- how much is the projected cost for fuel, labor and maintainance for the buses? What is the projected ridership in a given month between the two cities? How far out is the funding for this project? Cost for insurance? Criteria for judging the worth of this program after it is started/ criteria for pulling the plug if it doesn't meet expectations? A discussion weighing the total cost against the projected benefit to and use by the student? Any discussion on this at all before the vote? If not, why not?

In most cases, when any proposal is presented to Council, I see very little inquiry, question asking or interest into delving into the specifics before funding/approval is voted on. Why not? Do they all understand these items that well to not ask questions? Where are the hard, to-the-point questions?
Back to Top
Vivian Moon View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council


Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
Status: Offline
Points: 4187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 8:43am

Vet Question:
Library Levy-Tabled for now. Article in the Journal on this. Why do we have Doug Bean who is the Director and also have a fiscal officer with an organization that has less than 50 people? Do these people draw a salary? If so, where does their salary money come from? How much do they each make and couldn't we combine the two jobs and downsize one of them? A little top heavy for such a small organization isn't it?

Free Public Library?
    Last night Mr. Laubach suggested charging $10 per year for a Library Card to help offset cost at the library. Mr. Mulligan stated that they could not charge because it was a “Free Public Library”. I seem to remember this discussion from several years ago and I’m not sure this was a correct statement from Mr. Mulligan. I believe this only applies to books.
    I believe they could charge for a “Special Library Card” for such things as music and movie DVD’s.
    Maybe Mr. Bean could answer this question for us.

Back to Top
Hermes View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 19 2009
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 1637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 9:51am
There is nothing "free" about the library if tax payers are paying into a levy.
 
A "pay as you go" program may or may not work depending on the number of patrons using the system.
 
As Vet stated above,do these people draw a salary & what exactly would the levy be paying for ?
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 9:55am
OK- Let's take Mulligan's statement in a literal sense. It is a "free public library". What is the difference between Laubach's suggestion on the public paying a $10 fee for a library card, which Mulligan objects to, and us paying 0.75% per year on our property taxes to finance the operation of the library, which he apparently supports? Or, better yet, if it's "free", as Mulligan suggests, why are we being asked to fund a 0.75% levy for it's operation at all? Sorry- don't understand the logic here.
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 10:05am
NON-ESSENTIAL LEVYS
There is no real reason to EVER emergency  a non-essential service levy.
The public should be permitted and encouraged to comment on such an issue.
Another patterned abuse of the process will fly right through Council since no one wants to be the "bad guy" holding up a "feel good" tax increase.
 
Mr.Bean is a good,caring and community-involved person of the highest degree.
Our library is a very nice building and service. So nice, that it has taken charge in both West Chester and Trenton-sharing material back and forth(with no charge to the public--a good thing, showing good management).
 
No mention whatsoever of library employees' pay rates or benefit packages. Are annual pay increases included in the levy funding request? No matter--no public discussion or further Council ?ing--just emergency it through to leave the voting public to seek out these answers themselves.
 
As mentioned by Mr.Laubaugh and Ms.Moon, certain charges should probably be initiated for many of the more costly sevices, such as intra-facility transfers, dvd/cd purchase and rental, meeting room space, computer use etc. Times have changed.
 
Up in their bedroom, the Beav says to bro Wally, " Gee Wally, wouldn't it be great if everything could stay just like it is and has been during this great time of our lives!! Mom stays home all day taking great care of the home, laundry,cooking et al while wearing stylish dresses,earrings, high heels and extremely well-coiffed. Dad works Mon.-Fri. 9-5 at the "office", weekends off, never brings home work, wears nice suits daily, comes home to lounge in his chair read the paper and smoke his pipe". Our neighborhood is crime-free and our neighbors are all just like us!".
 
Wally replies, "Sure Beav--this is swell! None of our friends have to work, we never need any money for anything, and everyone is always happy and trouble free. Life here in Middietown is truly All-American, with the big businesses providing virtually everything for us--jobs, parks, activities, funding for charities and sports teams. Can't get any better than this, and hopefully will stay like this forever!"
 
Wally and the Beaver go their separate ways with their similar friends for an afternoon of soda shop socializing and the Beav's usual hijinks.
 
June looks to Ward lovingly and says, "Ward, it's time for you to go upstairs and punish the beaver. A serious chewing-out is in order."
 
Yes--life  would be wunderful if we could all drop back to our glory days of the past and hold things just that way. Sometimes our Council/Admin seems locked into that philosophy, often downplaying current snafus while waiting for that return to the past or our "bright future".
 
Tough choices are ahead.
Public service workers continue to see spiraling wages while retiring earlier than ever. This creates a tremendous future liabilty for the individual and business tax-payer, who sees the profits shrinking and disappearing(somewhat like their property values and customer base). The pyramid is now inverted and crumbling. Non-essential levys, while small, add up to the point where the proverbial straw actually does break the back of the camel, rendering that camel useless.
 
jmo
I will support the library, while I understand that many others can't support it.
jmo
 
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 2:22pm
spider, I always enjoy reading your posts, which are well thought and conceived.Especially the point on the constant "emergency" legislation which is an expeditious means of hampering public discourse---such an annoyance the people would actuallly wish to have matters debated. As for the increase, I think MUM is a wonderful alternative, and can assuredly pick up the "added load" Mr. Bean makes reference. They are open 8-9 PM, Saturdays for at least 4 hrs, and I believe closed on Sunday. They have an excellent computer lab and finding a computer is never a problem. For technology purposes, there is no comparision between MUM and MPL...none, MUM vastly superior. Therefore, the solution is there are two valuable resources to make utilization, and as Middletown is now going to Oxford, others can make use of King Library which closes at mignight or beyond, and is open 7 days weekly.
 
There are other resources to be utilized that more than adequately compensate for the request for funding, which includes MUM and King Library (and others). But, rationale tought and optimizing assets rarely is a consideration when a tax levy comes about is it?   
Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

As for the increase, I think MUM is a wonderful alternative, and can assuredly pick up the "added load" Mr. Bean makes reference. They are open 8-9 PM, Saturdays for at least 4 hrs, and I believe closed on Sunday. They have an excellent computer lab and finding a computer is never a problem. For technology purposes, there is no comparision between MUM and MPL...none, MUM vastly superior. Therefore, the solution is there are two valuable resources to make utilization, and as Middletown is now going to Oxford, others can make use of King Library which closes at mignight or beyond, and is open 7 days weekly.
 

There are other resources to be utilized that more than adequately compensate for the request for funding, which includes MUM and King Library (and others). But, rationale tought and optimizing assets rarely is a consideration when a tax levy comes about is it?   


I agree that MUM offers resources to the community, but I'm not sure about access. Can you take out a book from the MUM library if you're not a faculty or staff member at MUM?   Do they offer community lender cards?

Also, can you use the computers unless you have a Miami account with which to log in? I know that some computers have "guest" access, but I'm not sure that's how the library computers are set up.

Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 3:09pm
  Yes, to all of the above. I am a partner at a large firm, and make use of MUM many times when not traveling. You can go to Oiolink, and order virtually any book from any state or pirvate institition in Ohio, and have it delivered to the circulation desk near you. I have picked up many books through OhioLink at MUM. I do not believe they have any problem allowing anyone to check out a book, and assume they would use the same procedure with id, et al, that the library would. And, in the event they would not, the individual would simply go to the library during operations and pick it up ( I did not read MPL was compeletly shutting down.)
 
Finally, for the computer access, yes again:
 
Non student guest:
 
Login: mumguest
password: middletown
 
And one is off to the races without a timeline (unline MPL).
Back to Top
Hermes View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 19 2009
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 1637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 6:43pm
I support our library to the fullest extent of the law,but what I and many others have issue with and this is not just limited to the library is :
 
1. Why did the library wait until the last minute to spring a levy idea ?
 
2. Why does council also always wait and spring ideas then have to declare an emergency because they waited ?
 
I smell a lot of bull in these wait and declare emergencies on legislation in this town. Either that or there is a lot of mismanagement which needs to be dealt with and with a firm hand. If the library needed a levy so bad how come they didn't see it months ago ? And no one has ever said what the levy money would be used for,is it for upkeep ? What percentage if any would be used for salary and what is that salary ? If these people worked for my company and came in every week springing surprises on me I'd fire every one of them.
Back to Top
409 View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 27 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1014
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:

I support our library to the fullest extent of the law,but what I and many others have issue with and this is not just limited to the library is :
 
1. Why did the library wait until the last minute to spring a levy idea ?
 
2. Why does council also always wait and spring ideas then have to declare an emergency because they waited ?
 
I smell a lot of bull in these wait and declare emergencies on legislation in this town. Either that or there is a lot of mismanagement which needs to be dealt with and with a firm hand. If the library needed a levy so bad how come they didn't see it months ago ? And no one has ever said what the levy money would be used for,is it for upkeep ? What percentage if any would be used for salary and what is that salary ? If these people worked for my company and came in every week springing surprises on me I'd fire every one of them.
 
2. Why does council city staff also always wait and spring ideas then have to declare an emergency because they waited ? Angry 
I hope Judy & Les are getting the message that at least 2 new council members aren't wild about emergency legislation. Also hope they don't start backing down unnecessarily!
Every morning is the dawn of a new error...
Back to Top
wasteful View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 27 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 793
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2010 at 8:22am
Someone explain the need for this Library Levy at this time in a downturn of the economy.
 
Exactly what essential service does the library perform in its current scaled back state that the communities need?
 
Is it the story time for children that is essential?  Read to your own children or organized a local Reading by 3 or 4 children for free,
 
Is it the free computer use to find a job as they stated?  Get on a bus and go to Job and Family Services.
 
Is it the reduced hrs?  If you can't make it to the library when they are open is that going to devastate your life?
 
We all have to cut back in these times?  What makes the Library any different?  When times are good they flourish when they are bad you cut back and you don't throw a levy on so you can have story time for the kids.  Or free INTERNET access. Or because Mr. Bean is a nice guy.
 
The Library cuts back like any other business must make cut backs, it is just a fact of life.  We can't have decent roads but we can have a levy so several hundred people can go have free INTERNET access.  The logic in this escapes me.  Make due folks, find alternatives, do for yourselves for a change rather than rely constantly on others to do for you.  Just because it is a Public Service does not mean it doesn't need to be cutback in difficult times,  
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2010 at 10:18am
The key issues are straight forward:
 
1. Is this levy needed to have access above and beyond what is available now? My answer is absolutely not. Is the library staying open 24/7 or maintaining its usual hrs? It is not going to be 24/7, so for those unemployed, would they not be sending resumes and checking non stop---of course. This levy has nothing to do with a harsh economy and keeping people employed. It has verything to do with keeping Middletown public workers employed.
 
2. The second issue which is less pressing, but certainly one which requires discussion is why is city council and the city administration consistently having these emergency legislative initiatives? That is self evident, because it prevents continued dialogue and influence upon those on council. Why think and contemplate about an issue when it has already been decided by a few.
 
Is it just me, or is everyone else beginning to comprehend the best paying jobs, offering the maximum security, least amount of stress, and benefits and retirement is the city, county, state, and federal government? You last 3-5 years on average in the top Fortune 50 companies today, in the public sector, you are set for life.
 
The levy is not about a need for patrons, it is about keeping public servants paid with benefits. Downsizing has no place in city , state, or federal government.   
Back to Top
Pacman View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jun 02 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2612
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2010 at 10:51am
Acclaro you are right on the money with number one.  Wasteful is also right on the money with this levy is not needed the Library should just operate at its reduce level for now.
 
The emergency in my opinion is to get this on with the school levy in May.  There is really no reason this has to be an emergency they could have put it on in August.  The May election will have a higher turnout due to the School levy, which means a greater chance of passing.
 
 
Back to Top
Bill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 04 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2010 at 11:20am
acclaro, you are correct.  It seems that the only people who have it made are the "public servants" (have any of you ever gotten energetic service from the water dept., BMV, etc.?).  Mr. Bean's comment about wanting to hire everyone back was very revealing.  Why?  Certainly the library has learned it can function with fewer employees.  Maybe hire some back...but all??   Never has there been more teeth-grinding and hand-wringing than when a school superintendent, County office holder, or library director bemoans the mere POSSIBILITY of laying people off.  They talk as if it's almost a criminal offense.  Welcome to the real world, kiddos.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.107 seconds.
Copyright ©2024 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information