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Is It Just Me.. |
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randy
MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Jan 29 2010 at 8:01am |
Exert from the Middletown Journal:
Maybe its just me but this sounds like Mr. Picard has a problem with Mr. Laubach and Mr. Smith taking issue with all the emergence Legislation going on.
Guess it's not as easy to slip things by if people are watching.
Councilman Dan Picard, who serves as liaison to the board, urged trustees to go for the 0.75-mill levy instead of a 0.7-mill version if they were worried about state funding cuts further down the road.
“It’s not like you’re going to be able to get a second bite at the apple next year,” Picard said. He addressed growing concern his fellow council members — namely A.J. Smith and Josh Laubach — could take issue with the levy coming before them as an emergency ordinance, advising library officials to put together as much information as possible and have it included in council’s Feb. 2 meeting packet. “Hopefully that will help alleviate any anxiety these two men have,” Picard said. “Make a short, concise presentation to council, and then hopefully, they will be glad to move forward with emergency legislation.” |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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First, at the Candidates' Forum held at the Community Forum, Mr. Picard stated that he would NOT accept appointment to any of the boards or commissions.
Second, he apparently not only ACCEPTED the appointment, supposedly as "liaison" only so that council could know what was going on, but he also has decided to STEER the board on such issues as tax levies!!! That doesn't sound like "liaising" to me.
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danpicard
Outsider Joined: Jul 20 2009 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Yes, I do have a problem with voting against every ordinance that is presented to Council as an emergency simply just because it is presented as an emergency. Each council member receives a packet of information on the Friday evening before the Tuesday meeting which contains all of the information available on each piece of legistation that will be presented at the Council meeting. That allows each member 96 hours to review all of the proposed ordinances and all of the supporting information. Between the time the information is received and the meeting, there are two full business days during which each council member may ask the City Manager for any and all additional information they may need to make an informed decision on Tuesday evening. If a council memeber fails to take advantage of that time to review the matters and ask questions prior to the meeting, they have no one to blame but themselves.
At the last meeting, two members voted against all three of the proposed emergency matters. If I had not made the motion to proceed to consider each matter individually, the City would have lost the sale of a parcel of real estate thereby costing the City over $56,000.00. The two members who voted against the emergency would have been directly responsible for this loss and yet I didn't hear either of them offer to reimburse the City for the loss which they would have caused.
Each council member has a duty to the citizens of this City to do their job and to be prepared. Some matters are very time sensitive and must be acted upon quickly. Amply time is provided before and during each meeting to allow members to ask all of the questions they may have regarding every matter presented to Council for its consideration. Each member must be aware that their actions may have very serious consequences and they must be prepared.
Dan Picard
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Dan Picard
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Mr. Picard while I can agree with some of what you say, you leave out one important part of the process and that is the Citizen. Emergency legislation is pushed through so quickly that many time the average citizen is left in the dust and not even aware of the legislation.
Let me ask this. The Library has known of its funding issues for months, so why wait until 2-2-10 to ram a piece of legislation though as an emergency, this issue didn't just pop up yesterday.
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Nelson R. Self
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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City Councilman Picard -
You're correct. Failing to close the sale of the Charles Street residential property would temporarily preclude the City of Middletown from recovering $46,000 of the HUD housing rehabilitation funds invested in this property.
The real issues behind the sale of the Charles Street home have much more to do with waste and mismagement of HUD funds. If memory serves me correctly, about $60,000 was invested by the City of Middletown (not including considerable staff time, holding costs plus legal and appraisal services).
Given the weak state of the local housing market, you're to be thanked for presenting an option to fellow City Council members to expedite this sale. And, there are multiple other information requests that I presented to my Ward 3 City Councilman (Joshua Laubach) plus A.J. Smith. I continue to wait for their promised assistance.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I agree with being prepared, Dan. However, has does being prepared have anything to do with the abuse, I repeat, abused of the Emergency Legislation Procedures? If a 36" Water burst and the City Crews could not effectively deal with it, Emergency Action would be in order to get a Contractor to fix it. Selling a property MAY be a justified use, but given the long standing ABUSES of the a fore mentioned Procedure, I myself would have acted no different than AJ or Josh. You may believe as you like and conduct yourself accordingly on Council. You may NOT tell others how to proceed nor chastise those that disagree with you. Personally, I would have been against the Sale simply because the Presentation stated that the City was paying $250/month for Utilities. I don't believe for one minute that it takes $250/month to maintain MINIMAL Utilities for such an unoccupied House. The stench of that misinformation alone would have made me say NO. Could it be that People of means are leaving Middletown in droves just because of the type of Attitude You have displayed in your Post in this Thread? I am about to give up and leave myself. There are many Deals out there for Homes in Areas with less turmoil than what is found in my Hometown of 51 Years. Perhaps You could consider being part of the Solution and not be so quick to join the Bandwagon that has been such a big part of Middletown's demise. |
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danpicard
Outsider Joined: Jul 20 2009 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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At next Tuesday's meeting, representatives of the Library will make a presentation to Council. No action will be taken at that meeting. The resolution will be presented for Council consideration at the February 16th meeting. Yesterday, I advise the Library Board to be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for this legistaion to be considered an emergency.
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Dan Picard
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Nelson R. Self
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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LRISNER -
Thanks for reminding us of the Community Revitalization Department's senior staff comments on utility expenses for the Charles Street property. What about property taxes, etc.?
In addition to all that has been said, I ask the following of any City Council member:
1) what was the date of the Purchase Agreement signing by the puchaser(s) and the City of Middletown?
2) how many days did the Purchase Agreement allow for the Charles Street residence to close and did City staff inform the purchaser(s) that this transaction must be approved by the City Council?
3) did the City of Middletown provide more HUD funds for the purchaser(s) down payment/closing costs?
4) did Community Revitalization Department senior staff present similar legislation for the sale of 1018 Hughes (City Rehabilitated FHA Dollar Home) to the City Council a few months ago? If not, why not?
Summary: So many questions and so few valid answers!!
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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The emergency legislation process has been abused and improperly used by Council/Admin for far too long. Sorry, Mr.P--the end of that abuse has arrived. Please be responsible as an elected Councilmember and responsive/respectful to the voting tax-paying citizens by voting against any un-necessary emergency legislation. Doesn't mean that you don't support an issue, simply that the issue needs to proceed through Council with proper hearings and procedure. The Library levy should not be rammed through this way. Obviously the library board assumed that passage by emergency was a given(were you involved in any such discussion, and did you recomend going through the hearing process or emergency legislation?). This issue should have been handled properly by the library board, and others should not be compromised or denigrated because of the library board's failure to do so. Actually none of this discussion relates to supporting the levy--simply following correct procedures which need to be in place and followed consistently.
Citizens have the right to comment on tax levy placements. Discussion is healthy, normal and expected.
There should be NO exceptions to this simple policy. Tax levys are not last-minute decisions. The library board failed in their responsibility to the tax-paying citizens.
Singling out Mr.Smith and Mr.Laubaugh in the negative way portrayed in the MJ was extremely poor judgement on your part, and might make it difficult to work with your fellow Councilmembers.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Exactly. It has went on so long, that it is now considered a normal way of doing Business. I have tremendous Respect for Doug Bean and his Staff and fully support their Levy Request, however I would say no also simply because the abuse has to stop somewhere. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Mr. Picard- using the words from your post...... "each council member receives a packet of information on the Friday evening before the Tuesday meeting"...... where in this process, does the public have enough time to provide our input to our council rep prior to the Tuesday meeting? How is the public suppose to know when their councilmember receives the package, what it contains and has access to it to discuss it with said councilmember? By your description, there is currently no way that the councilmember and his/her constituents can communicate before the packet info is formally discussed in the Tuesday meeting. The people that the councilmember is representing is totally left out of the process. Furthermore, you state " SOME matters are very sensitive and must be acted upon quickly". Then why does Landen present EVERY ordinance as an EMERGENCY piece of legislation if only "SOME MATTERS MUST BE ACTED ON QUICKLY"? Finally...... you state "ample time is provided before and during each meeting to allow members to ask all of the questions that they may have regarding every matter presented"..... BUT, AGAIN, Mr. Picard- WHAT ABOUT THE AMPLE TIME THAT IS NOT.....NOT PROVIDED THE CONSTITUENTS TO ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS OF THEIR COUNCILMEMBER? You, sir, have left us totally out of the loop in OUR city government in your comments. I am sorry that you have given an indication that you will support the continuation of rampant emergency legislation for the purpose of shoving through legislation to get it on the books to avoid any public outcry. You may have also chosen to be behind that desk for one term only if you continue to ignore the people's wishes.
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Nick_Kidd
MUSA Resident Joined: May 15 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Nelson, I was at the meeting and I think the agreement was in the hands of the city on Dec. 15, 2009. I believe that the excuse for not presenting it to council sooner was that the law department couldn't get it together because of the holidays. Maybe the law department was unmanned from the middle of Dec. until the middle of Jan.
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Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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Nelson R. Self
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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Glad to hear from you, Nick. I always knew that you were a decent person from the day that my former boss with the City of Middletown called good citizens like Merrill Wood, Paul Nagy, Gary Barge, Tom Rapp, Dan Tracy, Adrienne Scherer, you and others troublemakers to avoid. Did the City ever lose a substantial amount of money and credibility due to this person's actions!
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Bobbie
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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Is the city also providing the financing for this property as well?
The sad part is no one believes that everything that shows up as emergency should fall into that category. It has been abused. Council has lost respect from many people for this reason. The Schivione incident put the icing on the cake. You have to get us to start believing in this system. Take a step back on this and ask yourself - will there be an effect to the city if we do not make the decision today. If the answer is no - then it is not an emergency.
If my kids are sick - I do not call 911, I call there doctor. If it is life or death I call 911. But if everyone called 911 when they had a headache - then no one would get the help they needed. Right now the council is making everything urgent - and we are not getting any better.
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Nelson R. Self
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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A couple of months after Ginger Smith had reluctantly transferred to be the Community Revitalization Director, I was told by Kyle Fuchs that the City had sold one of the few rehabilitated FHA Dollar Homes on Logan. He also noted that the buyer was not "bank qualified" and that the City would carry a 20-year mortgage. This matter was reported by me last Spring and never one word was ever asked by the City Council. As my Ward 3 CIty Councilman, how does this HUD-funded matter strike you? Should the City be in the residential lending business?
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transplant
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Sep 30 2009 Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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when a senior staff member admits at a commission meeting that there will be no impact to the city if the legislation is not an emergency and it passes as an emergency anyway = a big trust issue. if staff/commission want to propose a charter change, that's fine but if not, lets keep emergency legislation to actual emergencies!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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In fact, if the library passes a 0.75 mill levy, as you "URGED" (according to The Journal) instead of the 0.70 mill levy that they wanted, will you be offering to reimburse the citizenry for the additional $215,300+ per year in taxes which you alone, in your role as a council member, will have caused?
Next, regarding your words above highlighted in blue: May I remind you that each member of the City staff also "has a duty to the citizens of this City to do their job and to be prepared." And that each member of staff "must be aware that their actions may have very serious consequences and they must prepare" necessary reports, legislation, and resolutions in a timely manner (unless they are true emergencies) in order for council to consider and vote upon them in a non-emergency manner.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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On the other hand:
It would be smart of Mr. Smith or Mr. Laubach to "pick their battles," and I would urge them to do so.
The object of the "emrgency/non-emergency" protocol is to assure that BOTH the council AND the people have a chance to become informed about, and address their representatives on the issues at hand, yet still allow legislation to be passed in a timely manner under extraordinary circumstances.
In my opinion, it would be a mistake, both ethically and politically, to vote "NO" on the library levy issue on February 16, SOLELY due to the fact that it will come before council on an emergency basis.
This issue has been well-publicized. It is no secret. No one is trying to "sneak" it in. There is a "deadline" by which it must be passed in order to be submitted to the Board of Elections.
Yes, I have stated that "poor planning on the part of others does NOT justify emergency action on the part of council." And yes, this should apply to the Library board. However, at least the spirit, if not the letter, of the "emergency/non-emergency" protocol has been satisfied.
There is more likely to be support when it is really needed if the "Not an emergency = NO" vote is reserved for when it is truly necessary!!!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Then again, back on the first hand:
Shouldn't Mr. Picard now be abstaining from both the discussion AND the vote on this issue. He obviously has an "interest" in this issue as he has "urged trustees to go for the 0.75-mill levy instead of a 0.7-mill version" as reported by The Middletown Journal on January 28, in his role as "liaison to the board".
Once again this illustrates why the practice of council members serving on the various boards and commissions, in any capacity whatsoever, is an inherent CONFLICT OF INTEREST and is therefore ILLEGAL!!!
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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And Mike if you believe that like any other public and private organization in this time of economic downturn the library should cut back as everyone has had to do and not raise taxes? Simply because it is the Library why should they not cut back as everyone has had to do? If that means cut personnel so be it, if that means cutting programs so be it. We must all do with what we have currently, the Library is no different.
This idea of raising taxes at every turn is out of hand. No wonder everyone is fed up with the Ohio way of life, it is a constant levy for this or for that. Rather than raise revenues through growing the city and local economy it is bring in more poverty and raise the taxes of those that have not fled the city.
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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I get the same "workbook" that council receives on the city website. I read all the legislation before Tuesday nights. I like knowing what is going on before an emergency vote.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Wasteful:
I don't think I expressed an opinion on the merits (or lack thereof) of the library levy. I certainly intended to address voting: " 'NO' on the library levy issue on February 16, SOLELY due to the fact that it will come before council on an emergency basis.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Jag:
I also try to read the workbook before the meeting, and always have it open on my coputer monitor while I watch the meeting. The problem is that not everything in the packets is in the workbooks. Also, for emergency legislation, often NO information is in the workbook.
Back in '99 and the early 2000s (when I used to attend nearly every meeting), the workbook was never on line, nor were coppies available for the public at the meetings. At nearly every meeting I would arrive prepared to speak on one subject, but without warning, they would inevitably throw an emergency or two into the agenda at the last minute that I felt was more important to address. Therefore, I often had to make my comments "off the cuff"!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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