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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Oct 30 2009 at 9:08am |
At last night’s Community Center Candidates’ Forum, one of the questions from an audience member (Guess what: it was from ME!!!) was given by Ms. Glover to both Mr. Picard and Mr. Armbruster. I took offense to Mr. Picard’s response, later echoed by Mr. Armbruster. Normally I would not have been offended, as there is really no reason that Mr. Picard should have done the research necessary to AVOID MAKING CLAIMS BASED ON RUMOR AND HEARSAY, except that is EXACTLY what he accused OTHERS of doing! The question concerned the candidates’ opinion on a majority of council having pre-arranged discussions with the city manager and other staff, and calling it a “sub-committee meeting” or anything but a council meeting. The premise was: How can unannounced and complicated items constantly come before council, and then council acts upon the items with little or no discussion? Mr. Picard stated that he has heard of rumor and innuendo of such meetings, but NO ONE actually has PROOF or is will to swear that they KNOW of it other than hearsay. Well, I reply to Mr. Picard that HIS ANSWER is based on RUMOR, HEARSAY, INNUENDO, or outright UNTRUTHS! It is well documented here on Middletown USA.com that I, myself, have been in attendance at such meetings along with the City Manager, the City Finance Director, at least two other members of City staff, our esteemed MAYOR and at least THREE OTHER CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, and Mr. Richter of The Middletown Journal. Further, I am completely willing to so swear, under oath, in an affidavit, a deposition, or in any Court of Law!!! But please, Mr. Picard, do NOT take MY word for it. See one instance of what Anita Scott-Jones says on the matter on MiddletownUSA.com (you can read the entire thread, IN CONTEXT, here: http://middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1810&KW=finance+subcommittee&PID=10274#10274 ):********************************** Anita Scott Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 10:43am Mr. Presta, This will be my last post until tonight but I do understand your concerns. There have been several meetings where there have been only three of us; there have been meetings where six members were present and there have been meetings that had to be rescheduled because of lack of a quoram. Those in attendance were informed that they could attend and participate as well as anyone else. However, they do not make up the committee. I don't want to get into a debate either. I appreciate your participation at these meetings and truly hope you will continue to come and inform the public. Have a great day. Anita *************************** Now Mr. Picard, I don’t expect you to accept my sworn statements, or the words of a single City Council member, so next I turn your attention to an excerpt from the minutes of the February 12, 2009, meeting of the Finance “Subcommittee”: ************************************************************* FINANCE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING February 12, 2009 4:30 p.m. Second Floor Conference Room 2C Members Present: Bill Becker, Chair Staff Present: City Manager, J. Gilleland D. Schiavone Russ Carolus, Finance Director A. Scott Jones Duane Wooton, Asst. Finance Director L. Mulligan Betsy Parr, Clerk Others Present: Bob Cramer, Financial Consultant; Mike Presta; Ed Richter, Cox Ohio Publishing ********************************************************************** You can verify the accuracy of the above, and read the entire meeting minutes by accessing the March 17, 2009 City Council Workbook and looking in the “Consent Agenda” area!!! Now, Mr. Armbruster, YOU stated that you spend MANY HOURS during the Saturday, Sunday, and Monday before each council meeting READING and studying the workbook. You added that one can tell who has and who has NOT read the workbook by who has to ask questions and who does not. I notice that YOU do not ask many questions, Sir, so I must assume that YOU read the workbook, mustn't I??? Well, Sirs, the minutes of the February 12, 2009, “subcommittee” were not only INCLUDED in the workbook for March 17, 2009 City Council meeting, but Mr. Armbruster, who states that he spends HOURS studying these workbooks before every meeting, WAS ONE OF THE UNANIMOUS VOTES approving those minutes, AS WRITTEN, WITHOUT QUESTION!!! Yet last night, Mr. Armbruster, YOU agreed with Mr. Picard that NO such meetings EVER occurred!!! So, now we have: 1. A citizen that was actually IN ATTENDANCE, and willing to swear UNDER oath that this occurs. 2. A blog from a sitting Council person that this occurs. 3. Minutes, unanimously approved by City Council DOCUMENTING that it occurred! In either of your minds, would all of THAT move this out of the realm of “rumor, hearsay, and innuendo” and into the world of “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”? I won’t hold my breath waiting for a response or an apology, especially from Mr. Armbruster. I realize that, as a sitting Councilman, he is “not set up to answer questions” from mere citizens!!! PS: Before anyone sticks their foot in their mouth and claims that this was an “isolated incident”, I suggest that the following “subcommittees” had at least four council persons IN ATTENDANCE, AS PARTICIPATING MEMBERS, on the noted dates: Housing: 05/08/09; Finance: 05/13/09; Finance 4/23/09; Housing: 03/11/09; Finance: 07/22/09; Housing: 10/02/09. I could go on, but I won’t. ALL of the listed meetings had their minutes, including the ATTENDANCE ROLLS, voted upon and UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED by the FULL CITY COUNCIL!! (Once again, fully studied and approved by Mr. Armbruster with NO QUESTIONS, yet he now says "It's just hearsay"!!! You might notice that I listed several “Housing”, and “Finance” meetings where FOUR or more council members were present. These are two of the most complicated issues currently before council and are exactly what prompted my question and why I prefaced it with: “It seems that complicated issues frequently come before council and, with little or no discussion, are acted upon.”! Yet even Mr. Armbruster, who studiously examines his workbook for hours, has no questions on these issues and doesn’t realize that a QUORUM of Council has PRE-ARRANGED DISCUSSIONS on these issues beforehand!!! Finally, If ALL of the above, does not sway this from the realm of rumor and hearsay, the council approved minutes indicate that Mr. Doug Atkins, Esq., an officer of the court and Mr. Picard’s colleague on of the Bar, was in attendance at many of them!! NOW what say ye??? |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Nurse Ratched
Outsider Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Thank you, Nurse Ratched!
As they say,
When the facts are on your side, argue the facts!
When the law is on your side, argue the law!
When neither is on your side, pretend that you are a nurse, show a clip of an old movie, and plead INSANITY!!!
Good luck with that insanity plea!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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TV MIDDLETOWN
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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You can watch this LAST of the Candidate Forums right on your computer!
Just click here---> http://www.blip.tv/file/2789984
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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I tell you Mike I read the workbook sometimes and a lot of the time on complex issues it leads me to want to ask more questions. Mr. Armbuster's assumption that if you read the workbook you shouldn't have to ask questions is a pretty narrow minded view, if you ask me.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Wasteful:
EXACTLY my point!!!
And, of course a lot of the charts and other exhibits aren't even IN the workbook! Some things that they show on the wall, are up there so briefly that even I can't read them! (I'm not trying to boast, but I am noted for my reading speed.) If you listen VERY closely, you can even sometimes hear someone say words to the effect: "When we talked about that upstairs the other day, blah, blah, blah."
Well, I DO read the minutes of other meetings, and I always notice that my comments at some of those meetings are conveniently EXCLUDED!!! (For example, when I mention that I believe that they are illegal, or when I point out that they even discuss the timing so MORE council members can participate, or that their suggestion to set up for TELECONFERENCING so that ABSENT council members can participate is even MORE illegal.) There is absolutely NO WAY for me to correct these minutes, and they are ALWAYS unanimously APPROVED by the FULL council! Yet Mr. Armbruster, who studies each workbook for DAYS, is apparently in such a fog that he is COMPLETELY UNAWARE that the rest of council is meeting BEHIND HIS BACK even AFTER he has READ and APPROVED the minutes of their MEETINGS!!!
How can ANYONE, even a friend, consider voting for such a man unless they just want him in there to be USED as an AUTOMATIC "vote for the boys"????
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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