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Monday, December 23, 2024 |
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Are Middletown residents ready to boot Cameras? |
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Jake 
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Joined: Dec 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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 Topic: Are Middletown residents ready to boot Cameras?Posted: Dec 15 2008 at 11:19pm |
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I don't live in Middletown, but have been a frequent visitor. This is where I first saw Red Light Cameras about 3 years ago and became mildly curious about them. The more I research them, the more I am determined to reveal the truth about them.
In 2006, a Steubenville citizen's petetion put cameras on the ballot. A resounding 3 to 1 vote forced the removal of cameras there.
Last Novermber, Cincinnati voters made installation of Red Light Cameras and speed vans illegal there.
There is currently a huge grass-roots movement in Chillicothe to vote Redflex cameras out of town along with the Mayor and city council members that contracted them.
Various citizen's groups in Akron saw what happened in Cincinnati and are forming plans for a petetion and vote to remove the flash for cash machines in their city.
Are the people of Middletown ready to step up to the plate and be next? Or is most everyone convinced that they have nothing to do with revenue, and were only installed for your safety?
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 6:30am |
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Jake- I agree with the Chillicothe comment- ie- voting cameras out of town along with the mayor and council members. Not just for the red light contract but for numerous other poor decisions made over the years. And, pray tell,how would a group of people go about setting up this petition/recall system to vote the cameras and council people out?- Butler County Board Of Elections for the forms? Then, registered voters signing the lists to accumulate a certain percentage of the latest voter counts to vote again on recalling the members and removing the red lights, perhaps?
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arwendt
MUSA Official 
Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 9:35am |
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Cameras do not belong in the hands of Government, at least not for use in public areas. As no Government on the earth has ever shown itself to be anything above marginally competent, or free of corruption, to the point where the good the cameras could do would outweigh their abuse.
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Jake
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Joined: Dec 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 11:16am |
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Check out www.thenewspaper.com go to "red light camera studies roundup"
Also visit www.motorists.org
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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Jake
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Joined: Dec 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 2:38pm |
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Arwent --- It's worse than that. The cameras are not in the hands of government. It is a private company that owns and operates the cameras, takes your picture, and sends you a ticket. Your local government just approves the tickets and cashes a check for their cut of each ticket. The whole goal of the game is to create as many "violators" as possible, keeping the cash flow as fat as possible. There are many tricks to make this happen. Check out the websites above. |
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 7:00am |
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These cameras are hardly a problem for anyone who drives sensibly.
Stopping at red lights is a GOOD thing.
We are strapped for police service,m and if this mechanism catches blatant traffic offenders, then so be it.
YOU could be the next person killed by someone speeding through an intersection.
The revenue end is inconsequential.
I was a strong opponent of the cameras originally, and voiced myself clearly at the Citizen's Advisory Board to the Police meetings. I understand how and why they work and the revenue sharing. It is just another piece of sensible public safety imo.
These cameras won't keep anyone from anything in this town, and are hardly a deterrent. I see them now as a plus.
Go Middies!
Bball team is undefeated and headed to Miami(F)(at the private donors' expense) to play national powers next week. The team played in a summer league in NJ/Philly b4 major college scouts/coaches and participated in a national holiday tourney in NY last year.
Credit to Coach Ronai and his staff for finally turning around a program that was languishing at the bottom. Another local success story based on hard work, dedication and renewed involvement of our youth.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 9:06am |
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Spider- I understand your support for the red light cameras. Makes sense from a safety standpoint. Does generate small amounts of revenue for the city. All good points. I, on the other hand, am against the cameras for one reason. They represent "Big Brother" government watching and interfering in the private citizen's life. I want less government oversite in my life and detest more authority figures measuring every step of my privacy. You know all about that stuff- the 60's where some boomers protested government intervention on many fronts. Some of us have never lost that distrust of government. It's ironic that I say that because I ended up joining the military, which is a bastion for authority and an arm of the government.Guess that makes me a hypocrite in some ways doesn't it? I echo the " Go Middies". Nice to see the athletic programs being revived.Nice job by Mr. Ronai AND Coach Krause!
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arwendt
MUSA Official
Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 9:37am |
That does NOT make you a hypocrite in any way and thank you for your service. We as a country owe ever bit of our freedom to the brave men and women of our armed services.
Stoping people from running red lights is a good thing. There are hundreds of ways to do that.
Using cameras, which create no local jobs and only opens the door for additional cameras in the hands of Gov, is a bad thing.. in my opinon.
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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spiderjohn
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Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 10:28am |
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Vet--I share your BIG BROTHER concerns, and that was the basis for my original skepticism.
Ironically while you were serving in the military, I was partying at Woodstock.
However there really is no govt.intervention here, actually less. The cameras simply capture all violators(your vehiccle must be completely behind the roadway line--if any part is touching or in front, you will not be ticketed). Not much human judgement involved and no deference to whom is driving the vehicle. Plus a little $$ in the city pocket with minimal manpower.
As for these cameras taking away jobs---we can't afford additional police officers anyway, and freeing them from patrolling major intersections for traffic violations makes those officers available for larger issues such as accidents and bank robberies.
Sorry I left new coach Krause out of my post.
He has done a super job in his first year, the kids have bought into his approach, and we have to strong key athletic programs at this time. Many don't realize how low our programs dropped and how long and hard the resurgence has been. Should help overall school morale and community involvment. Hopefully that will lead to a trend of continued academic improvement.
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Pacman
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Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 11:32am |
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"no deference to whom is driving the vehicle." There should be deference to whom is driving as the vehicle did not drive itself thru the red light. Giving tickets to the vehicle owner, is where my beef comes in especially if you are an employer or leasing agency, etc. The driver violated the law not the car. Yeah...Yeah I know it is only a Civil fine. None the less it is as Hamilton proclaimed for their cameras a $money$maker$.
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Bwood
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Oct 29 2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 3:34pm |
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Has anyone noticed how the intersections of Middletown with the red light cams all have skid marks going through them?
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 5:39pm |
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whatever bwood
those same intersections used to be filled with memorials
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MadisonMom
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Joined: Dec 09 2008 Location: MadisonTownship Status: Offline Points: 298 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 9:12pm |
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My 17 year old just got his license on his 17th birthday last week. I have no problems with the cameras.
I also have a son that will be 15 in January and oh yeah, in June he will have his temps. My business is located on a corner where one road is 2 way and the other road is 1 way. Do you know how many people turn right on red daily? There is a sign right beside the road that says "NO TURN ON RED". The city could make a fortune from that one light. I have seen many, many people turn down the one way street and not even realize it until they are 2 blocks down. Wow. Even with traffic coming towards them blowing their horns. Those are scary sights. I have also seen them do it on purpose to get to a business across the street from mine. |
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Jake
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Joined: Dec 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 9:30pm |
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When I first became aware of RLC's, I thought they seemed like a good idea. Let's stop maniacs from blowing through red lights and killing people. Right? Or so it appears on the surface. Turns out it's not really working out that way. Even those who sell red light cameras admit there will be an increase in rear-end collisions. They try to minimize this by call these collisions fender-benders. These same people claim that this increase will be offset by a reduction in deadly T-bone accidents. It's not working, The rear-enders do go up and can be deadly, and credible research explains why T-bones seldom are reduced.The vast majority of red light "violators" who receive camera tickets are people who unintentionally cross the bar less than 3/5 of a second late. This poses no danger since the yellow is followed by an all-red interval of 1 second before the opposite lite turns green. A police officer's eye could not could not even discern this "infraction"
The REAL red light runners that create deadly danger are those who enter after the light has been red for 5 seconds or more. These people are usually inpaired. They are oblivious of the traffic light and other motorists. The presence of a camera means nothing to them at the time.
The cost of a camera ticket is a small price to pay for getting away with a night of drunken driving and they are free to do it again tomorrow, and perhaps kill someone.
In the meantime, the police have turned their attention to more "important" things than taking a drunk driver off the street who has blown thru a red light.
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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Jake
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Joined: Dec 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 9:40pm |
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Go to www.thenewspaper.com on the right side in blue, click on-- red light camera studies roundup. Credible research not connected with camera money reveals the truth.
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Posted: Dec 18 2008 at 10:48pm |
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The one big problem with these cameras is that there is a double standard of law enforcement and I know this for a fact because last summer when I called the police station to complain about speeding on our streets, I was told that they didn't have enough officers to just sit and watch our streets which I ask if I could photograph or video tag numbers and turn them in which I was told that they couldn't do anything unless they saw them in person speeding. My question is how many policemen at sitting at these cameras and if not then how can anyone be given a speeding ticket. Laws are not suppose to be different concerning the same situation. |
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Bwood
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Joined: Oct 29 2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 1:12pm |
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No one is sitting at the cameras. They are triggered when a sensor detects a car going through when the light is red. A picture is taken and someone writes down the license # and mails out a ticket to the license plate owner's address.
If someone borrows your car and gets their picture taken of your license plate, you have to pay the fine. If a kid runs the light and the car was their parent's, the parent gets the ticket. It happens all the time.
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Pacman
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Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 12:50pm |
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Santa brings early Christmas presents to the Residents of Tempe AZ, by taking care of Red Light Cameras. HoHoHoHo.
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arwendt
MUSA Official
Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 2:09pm |
Speaking of memorials of course it's drinking and driving that causes the majority of auto fatalities nationwide. Although very very very unsafe, stupid, potentially deadly, illegal and just down right wrong, I am unable to find any study that lists running a red light as a major cause of auto fatalities. In that context how else, other than a money making effort, could you classify a local governments obsession with this type of program? |
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Bwood
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Joined: Oct 29 2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 3:43pm |
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Another reason why red light cameras fail- ornery teens are now taping fake license plates to their cars to trick the cameras into sending fines through the mail to people they hate.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081222-dont-like-speed-cameras-use-them-to-punk-your-enemies.html |
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Middletown News
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Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 3:53pm |
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Dang Bwood Here is an excerpt, "Students at Montgomery High School in Maryland have discovered that they can duplicate the license plates of their archenemies by printing a Maryland plate template on a sheet of glossy photo paper and digging up a handy license plate character font, according to a parent speaking to The Sentinel (via /.). This may sound like a janky craft project at first, but these cameras are not sensitive enough to pick up the differences between these paper license plates and the real things. The students then tape the faux plate over their own and purposefully speed in order to be caught by the speed camera, causing the real owner of the license plate to receive a $40 citation in the mail. "
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Middletown News
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Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 3:54pm |
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For every solution there are new problems. Thanks Kids.
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arwendt
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Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 9:38pm |
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Sounds like the camreas could cause more problems than they could solve.
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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