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Lets Clear up a few facts about tonights meeting

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Pacman View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr 13 2010 at 10:05pm

I want to thank Mr. Laubach for an excellent meeting tonight it was informative and gave the citizens a Chance to interact both with Council and City Employees.

A few things need to be cleared up concerning tonights meeting:
 
1)  Mr Smith continually insisted that the Middletown Section 8 Program has always had 1662 Vouchers since day one.  Even with attempts to question him on this figure he insisted it was always 1662.
 
The MPHA has been in existence since about 1973.  The Section 8 program had 767 Section 8 vouchers in 2000.  It was not until 2007 that the Vouchers had ballooned to 1662.  This is per the Cities own records.
 
2)  Several Section 8 Landlords were present in this meeting basically defending the program.  Mr. Tracy stated that there were 3 cities in Ohio that administered their own programs,  Middletown, Parma and Marietta. 
 
While Middletown and Parma do indeed administer their own programs or hire an outside agency to do it, Marietta, Ohio's program is administered by the Washington-Morgan Community Action serving all of Washington and Morgan Counties Ohio, http://www.wmcap.org/index.html .
 
3)  Mr. Tracy further stated that you had to be a Middletown resident to get a voucher in Middletown, then why does the Feb. 2010 Consoc report list 225 non-residents as being on the waiting list.
 
4)  One of the Landlords further stated he would rather have Section 8 tenants than Private citizens because he makes more money.  And Section 8 tenants don't tear up the property like private citizens.
 
HUD pays:
0 bedrooms $473.00
1 bedroom   $560.00
2 bedrooms $726.00
3 bedrooms $972.00
4 bedrooms $1009.00
 
Not bad considering the cost of some of these houses in Middletown.  Personally I took much of this talk as them trying to protect their turf at the expense of Middletown.
 
5)  Mr. Tracy further tried to compare Butler Counties vouchers and housing program to Middletown's numbers which was ridicules as you are not comparing apples to apples.  You are comparing Butler County with about 1800 units I believe was the number that Tracy used and a population of 350,000 people and Middletown's 3600 vouchers and public housing units and 50000 residents.  Hardly seems to me to be an apples and apples comparison as he stated.
 
6)  It was stated that the number of children in Section 8 and the school system is "minuscule".  If you take Consoc's number of 2.5 people per voucher and do the math:  2.5 x 1662 = 4155.  What does everyone think that 3 adults are living on each Voucher and still getting under the fact that you must make 30% of the Median income for the Cinci area to qualify for a voucher.....come on.  A good portion of these people are children.
 
Bottom line folks is that these programs need to be reduced.  No one expects them to be done away with, but for a city this size and the problems that it has financially, infrastructural and image wise the Public housing situation needs to be dealt with as does the poverty level. 
 
The city will not recover with a poverty rate of 25% as businesses will not locate to a city this size with a poverty rate this high.  We can continue to pretend these issues don't matter as some did tonight.  If that is your choice then be prepared for a city in continual decline until it is beyond reviving.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2010 at 11:29pm
Yes, I agree, let's clear a few things up... I want to address #6 on your post.  It has been stated by Consoc that the vast majority of Section 8 tenants are single parents. (Will call tomorrow and get exact figures).  Most of those are women.  If one uses 2.5 people per voucher and let's say 80% single parent households (altho I know figure was higher), then that amounts to conservatively 1900 children, which is almost 30% of the kids in Middletown schools.  Mind you, this is just Section housing, not including low income pulblic housing.
Couldn't make it to meeting.  Would like to know Josh's response to Section 8 fiasco.
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Pat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2010 at 11:33pm
Would also like to know who you are referring to in last paragraph of your post.  Who are those that think these issues don't matter???  Is it the Landlords???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2010 at 11:37pm
Did anyone tape mtg.  Will it be on MiddTV?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TANGO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 5:33am
Yes Pat it was recorded by tv middletown. It will be on cable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 7:06am
I think Mr. Bohannon's roofing business should be boycotted.  He and other landlords like him and feeding the Section 8 beast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 7:32am
Mr. Tracy also said that we will soon be seeing a property owner who has just walked away from 140 separate properties in town and that all will be boarded up with grass growing a foot tall over time. Guess he was using that to sell his alternative of making the Section 8 owned properties where the landlord is forced through inspections to keep the property up to code. Both he and Bohannon were very passionate about the success of the Section 8. They've got alot to lose if it doesn't work out for them.

No, IMO, the answer is to not have all of these houses owned by Section 8 landlords and using city resources to oversee the code violations. The answer is to get jobs in this damn town and to provide adequate income to the people living here so that they can purchase and rehab these homes and occupy them as private residences. Better to have private ownership housing stock than to be saturated with low income rental/Section 8 landlord owned housing for the city. Much more healthy for the city-economically, class-wise, image-wise and reduces transient citizens who will never care about living here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 8:52am
I was traveling and i knew no one nor Mr. lambaugh would have said a heard about turning  back the ordinance regarding dedication to infrastructure and asphalt. He thought the tax could go back to 1.50% but it won't until its defeated in a few years. Too many surrounding communities have 2.0% or higher rate, so the city will never pull it back, as most live andwork outside the city and get the credit. The problem on the streets I totally disagree. It isn't too many not paying the bill, its the city's inept management over many decades and robbing one fund to protct the workers.
 
Section 8 will not be going away. Mr. Bohanon is a strong catholic and tied to the movers and shakers. I mean that in no disrespectful manner, but he is in on 8 as are many others, because the $$$ are simply too good. The neast will not be slain. You'll be talking about this issue in 20 years or greater.
 
I see no progress being made on council and its amazing how the city manager, and others, love to show up for hese events; is it to monitor the response or get an appearance credit? This city just is spinning its wheels. Next!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 10:49am
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:


No, IMO, the answer is to not have all of these houses owned by Section 8 landlords and using city resources to oversee the code violations. The answer is to get jobs in this damn town and to provide adequate income to the people living here so that they can purchase and rehab these homes and occupy them as private residences. Better to have private ownership housing stock than to be saturated with low income rental/Section 8 landlord owned housing for the city. Much more healthy for the city-economically, class-wise, image-wise and reduces transient citizens who will never care about living here.
This is by far one of the best comments I've seen on Middletownusa.com regarding this issue and I couldn't agree more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 10:50am
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

 
HUD pays:
0 bedrooms $473.00
1 bedroom   $560.00
2 bedrooms $726.00
3 bedrooms $972.00
4 bedrooms $1009.00
 
Those kind of $$ will go far in MOST communities, let alone Middletown. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 8:50am
Pat in looking at Consoc's reports for January 2010, I see the following:
 
0 Bedrooms leased 20
1 Bedrooms leased 335
2 Bedrooms leased 559
3 Bedrooms leased 539
4 Bedrooms leased 66
5 Bedrooms leased 1
 
Taking out the 0 and 1 bedroom units that leaves you 1065 Multi bedroom houses/apts. being leased with a total of 3004 bedrooms.  Take out 1165 bedrooms for the adult renter and that leaves you with 1839 Bedrooms for other members of the family.  Now I don't know if HUD allows multiple children per bedroom or not.  But I wouldn't call 1839 a minuscule number by any means.  What is HUD renting large homes needlessly, I doubt it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 9:45am
amen pacman and swohio.
Vet's thinking simply makes too much sense to be ingnored any longer
 
an entire re-focus of planning and ED is in order, along with the up-coming master plan review.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 10:24am
HUDs specs on sleeping arrangments:
 
"Vouchers are issued to eligible families based on the family composition. The federal rules require no more than 2 persons per bedroom or sleeping area (living room, den, etc). The precise determination of the appropriate voucher size depends upon the relationship, age and gender of the household members.

The size of unit you choose must be consistent with the needs of the family and the amount of rent subsidy you qualify for."
 
So you can have a 3 bedroom house and actually have 8 people live there according to this, 2 in each bedroom and 2 in the living room.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:


No, IMO, the answer is to not have all of these houses owned by Section 8 landlords and using city resources to oversee the code violations. The answer is to get jobs in this damn town and to provide adequate income to the people living here so that they can purchase and rehab these homes and occupy them as private residences. Better to have private ownership housing stock than to be saturated with low income rental/Section 8 landlord owned housing for the city. Much more healthy for the city-economically, class-wise, image-wise and reduces transient citizens who will never care about living here.
This is by far one of the best comments I've seen on Middletownusa.com regarding this issue and I couldn't agree more.
 
Yes SW this is a great quote but the rub is if you are the head of the ED dept. in Middletown how do you attract a company to Middletown with 300-400 jobs paying the high wages everyone wants.  There is much more to getting that done than us just repeating over and over on this site as we do so often that we want jobs.
 
The problem today is Companies want an all inclusive package:
 
1)  Good schools
 
2)  Good amenities, shopping, entertainment, dining, etc.
 
3)  Low Poverty, Public Housing, Section 8, the demographics of Middletown are a hard sell now and will be even harder sell come the 2010 census release.
 
4)  Good infrastructure, roads sewers, water
 
5)  Good Housing stock, up to date housing stock, not a city with 2000 houses waiting to be knocked down and no way to knock them down.
 
6)  They want a progressive leadership for the city, not one that takes two years to deal with Section 8 and now we are almost back where we started 2 years ago possibly looking for a new administrator for the program and inspections, if CONSOC and TIG don't get their act together in the next 30 days.
 
The list goes on and on and the problem is it is not getting any smaller only longer. 
 
Ms. Gilleland was asked the other night why she originally recommended moving the Section 8 program out of Middletown and she was spot on in her answer.  I am paraphrasing here but you will get the gist.  The city has to many other issues that need attention and section 8 is taking up to much of the city employees time and resources.  There are Organizations, BMH, which handle the housing issues daily.   She is right on.  The Section 8 matter is way out of control in Middletown and needs to be curtailed so that the other issues above which affect ALL OF THE CITIZENS ARE ADDRESSED.  You can't keep on spending the amount of time and resources on Section 8 and get any of the major issues resolved, it is just not going to happen.
 
The city needs to cut its losses and move ahead.  Everyone gasps and says, "oh you are heartless", no I am realistic about the situation.   You either get the program down to a reasonable level that can be managed in house with an administrator or you move it to Warren and Butler County and the city can move ahead.
 
There are 45000 other citizens in this town that deserve more and better than what they are getting in this city in just basic services and infrastructure. 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 8:34pm

You all know when you drive through downtown it is a disgrace. It needs to be bulldozed! I had the oportunity to go to Columbus for business. I had to go through  what is call the Brewery District. It was a part of town like our downtown is, but they have truly invented something there. Why do our elected officials see this kind of vision.Not that we need a brewery district, but turn our downtown into something special? Just get rid of section 8 all together and develope this town.

 
I agree boycot Bohannon Roofing, run Dan Tracy out of town, he is the biggest slum lord going and as an attorney they will have to screw  him in the ground when he dies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 12:13am
Heres an idea why dont we set up picket lines in front of dan tracys house for a few days 24/7 make sure its all legal,it is crazy how many dumps this guy owns in Middletown we need some kind of limit on how much rental property one person is allowed to own,just like the limit on dogs that someone can own.
Its amazing how much one can learn on butler counties web site and the property search feature.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 7:29am
WOW.............
 
Steve Bohannon has 20 property records listed:
 
Dan Tracy has 105 records listed, major player in the Section 8 system in Middletown.  No wonder they were there trying to defend the situation.  I wonder who the landowner is that Dan Tracy claims just walked away from 140 properties in Town.
 
E2210024000018 TRACY DAN 5884 WEST ALEXANDRIA RD RP_OH 08-JUN-2004 186500
N6120040000032 TRACY DAN W & 4441 HOPE DR RP_OH 11-JUN-2009 25900
Q6511021000009 TRACY DAN 1014 ELWOOD ST RP_OH 29-JUN-2000 35300
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Q6511064000014 TRACY DAN W & RUTHANN 2985 CARMODY BLVD RP_OH 01-DEC-2000
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Q6542065000118 TRACY DAN W 3612 GREENWOOD DR RP_OH 01-DEC-2000
Q6542083000014 TRACY DAN W & RUTHANN 2032 S BREIEL BLVD RP_OH 01-DEC-2000
Q6542114000055 TRACY DAN W & 2806 YANKEE RD RP_OH 04-APR-2007 17500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 7:58am
Tracy said we all should be thankful that these properties are privately owned under Section 8. (Thanks Danny for saving us by being a Section 8 property owner!) Otherwise, they would all be boarded up and dilapidated and the city would be in worse shape, inundated with these types of properties. Perhaps he's right. Heck of a choice here- dilapidated properties worthy of the bulldozer or retaining these properties so that Section 8 slumlords can profit from them at taxpayer Section 8 sponsored expense. Either way, it adds to the poverty town image. Just shows that alot of Middletown's housing stock isn't worth keeping. Thanks for the list wasteful. Very informative. Was there a list for Bohannon also? Would be nice to get that list of all Section 8 slumlords in town so we could "honor" them for their "contributions" to the image of the town. By participating in this program, are these Section 8 owners and others really helping our town? If we had no interest from people like Tracy and Bohannon as to owning slum property, would we still have the influx of vouchers we have now? Are they contributing to our misery by inviting people to live in their slum housing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 8:14am
Steve Bohannon:
 
Parcel   Owner   Address   Roll   Sale Date   Price 
 
Q6511055000006 BOHANNON STEVEN H 1900 SCHIRM DR RP_OH 03-FEB-1995 134000
Q6532003000059 BOHANNON STEVEN H 1329 FIRST AVE RP_OH 23-APR-2003 42000
Q6532003000060 BOHANNON STEVEN H 1329 FRIST AVE RP_OH N/A
Q6532003000905 BOHANNON STEVEN H 1329 FIRST AVE RP_OH N/A
Q6532030000039 BOHANNON STEVEN 211 SUTPHIN ST RP_OH 17-JAN-2007 38500
Q6532030000048 BOHANNON STEVE & 115 N SUTPHIN ST RP_OH 03-JAN-2008 33000
Q6541003000025 BOHANNON STEVE & 124 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 09-AUG-2007 25000
Q6541003000125 BOHANNON STEVEN 115 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 02-MAR-2010
Q6541003000126 BOHANNON STEVE 117 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 19-MAY-2003 39500
Q6541004000141 BOHANNON STEVEN H & 512 MOORE ST RP_OH 07-NOV-2005 27000
Q6541005000057 BOHANNON STEVE & 2021 SHERMAN AVE RP_OH 15-MAR-2006 35000
Q6541005000131 BOHANNON STEVEN 2013 WAYNE AVE RP_OH 19-NOV-2002 50000
Q6541008000097 BOHANNON STEVEN 2413 SHERMAN AVE RP_OH 01-OCT-2002 130000
Q6542031000065 BOHANNON STEVE 625 WAITE ST RP_OH 13-MAR-2002 25000
Q6542031000079 BOHANNON STEVEN H 1808 GRAND AVE RP_OH 28-JAN-2004 29900
Q6542031000176 BOHANNON STEVE 1918 WOODLAWN AVE RP_OH 27-AUG-2002 0
Q6542031000199 BOHANNON STEVEN 612 MOORE ST RP_OH 01-OCT-2002 130000
Q6542031000346 BOHANNON STEVE & HILL AVE RP_OH N/A
Q6542031000347 BOHANNON STEVE & 2022 HILL AVE RP_OH 07-FEB-2007 24900
Q6542032000113 BOHANNON STEVEN & 2204 WOODLAWN AVE RP_OH 10-AUG-2006 34000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote section8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 9:30am
Yes, lets do clear a few things, I live on section 8 with my son. I work a crap job for crap money and section 8 lets me have a home for my son and I. But according to all of you I am just a burden on your great Middletown. Well you what....kiss my section 8 ass. And dont for one second try and say that its not guys like me you are talking about, its the ones that abuse the system "we" mean. I read a lot of topics on here before commenting and you dont differentiate between anyone, you plainly state get rid of all section 8 and do it now
 
Well I have a better idea, why dont you people leave. Most of you are a bunch of, think you know it all types anyway. All you do is piss and moan on here about people on the program. Are some people abusing the system hell yes, is everyone (like you make it seem) hell NO!!
 
Oh, and no I didn't move here for section 8, I have lived here my entire life, which is more than most on here can say. You dont like the Middletown has turned out then move to Monroe, Franklin or how about Alaska, bet they dont have much section 8.
 
Bunch of cry babies, the real losers in this town are all of you.
Secton 8 Rocks...and you know it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 9:46am
Some of those are duplicate listings.  But still.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 9:50am
New player in the Section 8 biz???
 
Looking at one of the records, Integrity Property has a West Chester address.  If you search that address, the name on it is MICHELLE & NEIL F WARNER
Q6521017000017 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 212 PARK ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6532011000025 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1507 FLEMMING RD RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6532013000015 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1508 COLUMBIA AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6532017000045 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1720 CENTRAL AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6532017000046 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1720 CENTRAL AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6541004000016 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 410 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6541004000034 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 418 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6541004000035 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 418 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6541004000061 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 518 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6541004000062 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6541006000275 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 2019 LOGAN AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542031000184 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 623 CRAWFORD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542031000220 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1904 QUEEN AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542031000329 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 2007 HILL AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542039000087 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1501 LAWN AVE RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542071000042 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 1828 FERNWOOD ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542115000047 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 3120 ANDREW ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 105000
Q6542119000035 INTEGRITY PROPERTY HOLDINGS L... 3211 MORGAN ST RP_OH 06-APR-2010 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 10:05am
You really can not blame the landlords for having properties on Section 8.  Look at what they are paid and know that it is guarenteed.  If I owned properties, I would put them on Sec 8 as well.  We do have too many vouchers in Middletown, I know several people on Sec 8 that are good wholesome people.  I also know of individuals that are trying to get on Sec 8 that have no business on it.  What I don't understand is why it is so hard to lower this number.  First there should be no advertising for anyone to be on a list.  Second as someone leaves - the voucher is not given to someone else.  Are there unannounced visits to individuals on Sec 8 - should be - I think you would see there are some that abuse the system and could be kicked off. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 10:06am
I will also state Mr Bohannon is a very good man.  I know he takes care of his properties.  By know means should he be classified as a slumlord.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 10:12am
Bobbie it has nothing to do with being a good man.  It is about what is happening to our city.
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