AGENDA 4-15-2014

swohio 75:

Perhaps you can clarify the contents of this story for me. Specifically this.....

"There is a large auditorium addition on the rear. The current owner has constructed a room addition on the east side of the building with no zoning or building permits or approval from this Commission"

FIRST OF ALL, IS THIS BUILDING A DECLARED HISTORICAL STRUCTURE AND UNDER THE SCRUTINY OF THE HISTORIC COMMISSION? THE BUILDING DOES NOT LIE IN A DECLARED HISTORIC DISTRICT DOES IT? I THOUGHT WE ONLY HAD TWO-- S. MAIN ST AND THE HIGHLANDS. FURTHERMORE, IF VINYL SIDING IS AN ISSUE NOW, WHY WAS IT ALLOWED TO HAVE VINYL SIDING IN THE PAST? SECOND OBSERVATION.....IF THIS BUILDING HAS NOT BEEN A DECLARED A HISTORIC STRUCTURE, KOHLER AND THE OTHER "HISTORIC GROUP MEMBERS" NEED NOT CONCERN THEMSELVES WITH THE ADDITION, BUT RATHER IT NOW FALLS INTO THE REALM OF THE CITY BUILDING CODE FOLKS AND A BUILDING PERMIT ISSUE VIOLATION--IE, WHENEVER A PERMANENT STRUCTURE IS PLACED ON A PROPERTY, IT MUST HAVE AN INSPECTION, APPROVAL AND THE COST PAID FOR A BUILDING PERMIT BEFORE IMPROVING/BUILDING.

I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH ANY COMMERCIAL BUILDING REQUIREMENTS AS OPPOSED TO RESIDENTIAL AS TO EITHER THE BUILDING INSPECTOR/PERMIT SEQUENCE NOR THE HISTORICAL COMMISSION REQUIREMENTS ON COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. IS THERE A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL?


THEN....YOU HAVE THE PRIVACY ISSUE- IE- THE PRIVACY FENCE WHICH PUTS ALL OF THIS OUT OF SIGHT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC'S VIEW.

"Ms. Romero would like to see a design more in keeping with the building than the addition as built."

AGAIN, IF MS ROMERO IS A MEMBER OF THE HISTORIC COMMISSION AND THE BUILDING HAS NOT BEEN PROCLAIMED AS HISTORIC, WHY WOULD IT BE ANY OF MS. ROMERO'S BUSINESS WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED?

SAME WITH THIS STATEMENT....

"Mr. Kohler would like feedback from this group. Ms. Romero said the addition looks like a trailer parked up against the building, it is not in keeping with the style or quality of the building at all"

IF THE BUILDING IS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND DECLARED HISTORIC, THEN APPROPRIATE. IF NOT, NONE OF THEIR CONCERN AND THEY ARE OVERSTEPPING THEIR BOUNDARIES.

"The first addition, the auditorium, is not up to current district standards either. (HOW DID THAT SLIP BY THEIR SCRUTINY?) But it is not visible from the front. Mr. Sauer wondered whether the auditorium addition was originally concrete block. Nobody else recalls what the original material was. (THEN HOW CAN YOU MAKE A JUDGEMENT ON WHAT IT IS NOW SUPPOSE TO BE IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS TO BEGIN WITH?) Ms. Romero asked whether Mr. Kohler had enough information from this group to take to the owner. Mr. Kohler replied affirmatively. He would mention that the design and the material need to be more sympathetic with the original building, the window and door styles also more in keeping with the original building, the heights of the door and window need to be the same or at least related. ( YOU JUST STATED THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL MATERIALS WERE) Mr. Kohler felt that he needed to get some specific comments from this group to take to the owner before he goes to the expense of hiring an architect. Ms. Romero asked for a motion to table this case"

HIRING AN ARCHITECT? TO TELL THE OWNER THE WAY IT SHOULD BE? WHY ARE YOU BUTTING INTO THE OWNER'S BUSINESS KOHLER?

GRASPING AT STRAWS AND A GREAT DEAL OF SUPPOSITION HERE. SOUNDS LIKE THE HISTORIC COMMITTEE REALLY DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IS NEEDED HERE. I QUESTION WHETHER THE PLACE FALLS UNDER THEIR JURISDICTION OR NOT. SEEMS A TAD BIT OUT OF THE WAY, LOCATION WISE, TO BE INCLUDED IN THE S. MAIN ST DISTRICT DOESN'T IT? .....WHY NOT JUST LEAVE THE OWNER ALONE?

WADE E. MILLER GYM WAS "TACKED ON" TO THE OLD HIGH SCHOOL. SO WAS THE ANNEX IN BACK OF THE SCHOOL. THE HIGH SCHOOL IS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE RIGHT?. THEN WHY HASN'T YOUR LITTLE HISTORIC COMMISSION JUMPED THE SCHOOLS ABOUT "TACKING ON" INAPPROPRIATE BUILDINGS AND MATERIALS TO THE OLD HIGH SCHOOL? AND BECAUSE THE WADE E MILLER GYM IS HISTORIC, WHY ARE THERE NOW GLASS BACKBOARDS AND NOT THE ORIGINAL WOOD MATERIAL IF WE WANT TO STAY WITH HISTORIC ACCURACY?

WHAT ABOUT "CHANGING THE FACE OF AND BEING "INAPPROPRIATE" WITH BARNITZ STADIUM'S HISTORIC VALUE WITH THE FANCY NEW SCOREBOARD, NEW SYNTHETIC TURF AND NEW STANDS? LET'S NOT CHANGE THAT AREA BELOW THE STANDS EITHER, EVEN IF IT IS FOR IMPROVEMENT AND WITH THE LATEST MATERIALS. AREN'T THE CHANGES TO BARNITZ, FROM A "RETAIN THE HISTORIC APPEARANCE" PERSPECTIVE INAPPROPRIATE? SHOULDN'T IT BE NATURAL GRASS AND A WOODEN SCOREBOARD LIKE WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT?

WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE WITH THIS LITTLE GROUP AS TO TELLING THE COMMUNITY WHAT IS AND IS NOT "HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE"?

I HAVE INTENTIONALLY TAKEN THIS WAY BEYOND THE LIMIT TO HIGHLIGHT HOW FAR EXTREMISTS CAN TAKE THEIR CAUSES IF THEY LACK ANY COMMON SENSE OR JUST EXIST FOR CONGERING UP VENDETTAS TOWARD PEOPLE. I WOULD SAY, IN CASTING JUDGEMENT ON THE HISTORIC GROUP, THAT THEY TEND TO BE A TAD BIT VINDICTIVE IF YOU DON'T PLAY BALL THEIR WAY.....AND THAT AIN'T GOOD. THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE AN OUT-OF-CONTROL HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION WHO GOES ABOUT TELLING EVERYONE CONNECTED WITH OWNING HISTORICAL PROPERTY HOW TO LIVE....AND THAT AIN'T GOOD EITHER.

Dear Historic Commission

I believe you have made a mistake or have been given the wrong address.

The truly “historic building” that you must be looking for and need to be concerned about is on the other corner and was formally known as the Middletown Public Library but maybe you missed it as you were driving up First Avenue.

It is the very large stone building with boarded up or broken windows, roof with very large hole that is getting ready to collapse, with doors that have been kicked in and broken light fixtures out front.

However now that you have the correct location and the description of the building I’m sure you will be able to find it on your next trip to the area.

I do not believe that the current condition of this building meet any of your very high standards for the Urban Core or the local building codes but I sure that after a closer inspection of this property by your group they will be able to determine if my concerns are valid.

I’m sure you will be pleased to know that this property does meet all the required qualification to be placed on the National Register of Historic Places unlike many other buildings in the Urban Core.

beat me to it, Ms.V...
One look at the structure which used to be our former library should end this whole process. Then factor in the old high school, the Rose building, the Studio/hobby house area complex, the burned-out factory on the right as you enter town from the W Midd bridge, the Ligon building, the former Ward's building(adjacent), the recently sold historical society site, etc.....admin might want to address those issues asap

If current and/or prior owners of these and many other properties(including the Colonial(Sorg) Theater and Sorg Mansion) had bothered to make ANY attempt towards upkeep and keeping them serviceable, the area would look seriously better. To let these structures fall apart, then claim"historical significance" only in order to have someone else(taxpayers) pay for their negligence is hard for me to ignore.

Leave the K of C guy alone.....

Who are the people on the commission making these determinations. Urban Core Commission ?

swohio75 wrote: Mike_Presta wrote: Meanwhile, back at the ranch: That kangaroo court known as the Middletown Historic Commission is hassling the owners of the former Knights of Columbus building on First Avenue, trying to force them to spend a fortune to "restore" their property.  (You can read about this in the workbook for last night's council meeting.) This is a bit of a distortion Mike. The owners constructed a recent addition WITHOUT zoning or building permits.  It has nothing to do with "restoring" their property but the appropriateness of the addition and use of materials of the addition.

Not a distortion at all!!!!

If it is a zoning or a building code issue, what in the H...E...Double Hockey Sticks business is it of that da__ kangaroo court known as the Historic commissions????????

Why doesn't the appropriate department handle it, just as they would any other time?????

And even if you are correct  ( the odds of which are astronomical against), that still doesn't address why the Historic commission doesn't haul the Board of Education in for similar violations on on the VERY SAME DA** CITY BLOCK!!!!!

Is this social club still Edward Bros Hall? Wasn't there a shooting in that club a couple years ago? I wonder if this is the beginning process of trying to get them out. I think it's a byob kind of place.

Not that it matters to the big picture, or to the Historic People.