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A Lack of Understanding of the Impact of Section 8 |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2010 at 3:39am |
City taking firm stance on Section 8 deficiencies
By Ryan Gauthier, Staff Writer
7:50 PM Thursday, April 8, 2010
MIDDLETOWN — The city is preparing to officially put the operators of its Section 8 program on notice. CONSOC and The Inspection Group, which administer and do inspections for the city’s housing choice voucher program, could find themselves out of work if they don’t meet obligations, according to Community Revitalization Director Doug Adkins. “We want to make sure they’re complying with the terms of their contracts or we’ll look at alternative proposals,” Adkins said. “Right now I don’t even know what that means, but things are going to improve.” Adkins has voiced displeasure with ongoing communication issues between the two vendors and the city during the last few months, including incomplete and missing reports in addition to not following direction established by City Council. Council members voted last month to establish Adkins as the “point man” for Section 8, requiring CONSOC and The Inspection Group to take direction from and report directly to him or face “serious consequences.” Adkins and Law Director Les Landen have been combing through the contracts with both vendors, as he said they are trying to establish what is and what is not being done. “Once we define what the problem is, we’re going to put them on notice of what we believe would cure the deficiency as well as a timeframe,” he said. “If they cannot or will not comply with that request, then we’ll examine either termination of the contracts, more time or replacement with another vendor.” Should either of the firms be deemed in breach of their contract, Landen said City Manager Judy Gilleland would have the authority to terminate it at her discretion. Councilman A.J. Smith said it seems to him the two vendors had been trying to bypass Adkins and Gilleland, coming straight to City Council to get their problems resolved. Smith said council members sent a clear message that both organizations are to report directly to Adkins. “I don’t think either of them are meeting the contractual obligations 100 percent of the time,” Smith said. “We’re paying them the big bucks to hit that number. If they can’t do that, then we’re wasting taxpayers’ money and we need to hire someone who can.” The people being impacted the most by “this cluster of a mess” are Section 8 tenants, Smith said. His impression is there is a general lack of communication. “That lack could be physical (...) or verbal,” he said. “But at the end of the day, the people suffering are our constituents who need this program.” |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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The biggest victim in this mess with the excessive number of Section 8 vouchers in Middletown is the City and it's tax paying residents and its businesses. Unfortunately the City does not see it that way and continues on with this excessive program to the detriment of the city overall.
Maybe the city should just step forward and state their goal is to operate a nanny state and then the businesses and residents of Middletown will know where the city stands and can act accordingly and move out and stop operating businesses which are bound to fail due to decisions by the City Admin.
If you are a business which depends on Middletown for your income you are pretty much history. Businesses who simply use Middletown as a cheap place to locate and depend on outside business for their livelihood seem to do better.
It doesn't help that the ones making the decisions in this mess for the most part don't live in Middletown and have no stake in the city other than a job which is funded by HUD funds. You have a for profit company operating the Section 8 program. The more people on the program, the more vouchers in use, the more money they make. You have city employees whose salaries are paid for from HUD funds in these programs once again the more HUD funds the city gets, the more salaries they can pay with these funds. Personally I believe this is why Middletown is in the mess they are in, the almighty dollar has clouded the judgment of many in this city. Middletown has become a HUD funded state and nothing more. Landlords many who live outside the city and use the cities poor planning and lack of self control to their financial benefit, such as the gentleman from Monroe who has 62 Section 8 units in Middletown and yet does not live in this city, who addressed council a few weeks ago. It would seem the Section 8 Landlords have more say in the cities operation than the tax paying citizens and businesses who actually live and work in this city.
These are sad times that we live in in Middletown. When 4150 people can determine the direction that a city of 50000 people will take and consistently take up an inordinate amount of time and money in this city. From the School system, to the Police Dept., to the amount of money and time that city Admin spends on this issue week in and week out and the situation just continues to deteriorate in Middletown.
When city council only sees the people on Section 8 as the victims in this mess their judgment is clouded and it is unfortunate for this city as a whole. This is what you get from a Council who one disregards the voice of many of its citizens. A council who refuses to have a public conversation about Section 8 and the goals and objectives of the Council and its citizens. A council who basically allows a for profit company CONSOC to have more say in the the Section 8 goals and objectives than its taxpaying citizens.
The big loser in this mess, the City of Middletown and it's residents and businesses who want to see Middletown succeed, but know it won't due to the shortsightedness of the City Admin and Council who carry on with the error in their ways from years past to this day.
NY City has 3.08% of its residents on Section 8, Middletown has 8.6%, does this not make you stop and ask yourself why? Why don't other Cities in SW Ohio have this issue, why don't other cities overwhelm themselves with excessive Section 8? Why has Middletown's City Council and Admin chosen Middletown for this excessive program? Why is the city allowing CONSOC to advertise in Hamilton and Oxford that the Section 8 program waiting list is open? Do we really need more Poverty and Section 8 residents moving into a city already overwhelmed by this program? Don't you think we have had enough and it is time to hold the City and it's Admin and Council accountable for this mess that they created, yes they created it, not us the average citizen but your leardership that we continually elect and allow to run our city.
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NRS
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Feb 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Pacman -
Are many Middletonians puzzled that City Council needed to pass a resolution re-emphasizing a certain senior City staff member as being ultimately responsible for the HUD Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) Program commonly known as Section 8?? Wasn't this fact made very clear by Miss Judy following the sudden and unexpected "retirement" of Ginger Smith, Community Revitalization Director in March 2009??
The City Council was told by a senior City staff member that The Inspection Group was "negotiated with directly" to undertake HUD Housing Quality Standards (HQS) duties late last year?? Wasn't it proclaimed that their reputation and qualifications were so exceptional that no other firm was considered??
I recall that a certain City staff member (not me) was told by their department head to cease commenting on/complaining about Section 8 and C.O.N.S.O.C. in late 2007 or early 2008!! This fellow city worker told me what had happened and that they would not be having anymore conversations with a member of my Housing Code Enforcement staff, Police Department, etc. without experiencing consequences!!
There's so much more than meets the eye when it comes to Section 8 in Middletown!! Pacman continues to justifiably zero in on the most important problem -- a city the size of Middletown has far, far too many subsidized rental housing units!! Those senior City staff plus City Council members that allowed and.or encouraged the explosion of Section 8 from 2000 - 2006 should be held accountable!!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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NRS I agree that there is much more than meets the eye when it comes to Section 8. The citizens have never gotten a clear explanation of the WHY we are in the position we are in with Section 8 and the WHO in who got us here. Yeah we got the vague, we know what happened and why by Council and the City, but we as citizens have never been told the WHO and WHY.
I agree those that put us in this position should be removed if they still work for the City or are on Council, but those that continue to perpetuate this mess should also be held accountable. It is clear to me and many citizens that simply, "Having the Best Section 8 Program in SW Ohio.", is not good enough or justification for this mess.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Eliminate CONSOC, The Inspection Group and Adkins altogether by eliminating the city destroying Section 8 program. We don't need more low income, house destroying, crime-riddled, taxpayer mooching, give me a handout people coming to Middletown anyway. We already have 1662 vouchers. We are suppose to have about 600-700. We have enough to worry about with the way Gilleland and her morons are running the city. Gut the city building-fire the whole lot of them and start the hiring over again.
Eliminate Section 8
6:32 AM, 4/9/2010 'being short officers'? how can that be? why cant we hire some more? the .25% public safty tax increase brings in an xtra $2.5 million a year for public safty only. where has it gone? how has it been spent? they cant account for it. why isnt anyone but a cartoon duck asking these questions?
Daffy Duck
5:46 AM, 4/9/2010 Unbelievable that the people on Section 8 are the "victims" or the one's suffering. Tax paying, W2 earning citizens are the one's suffering. Welfare, Section 8, it's all Bullsh*t. To qualify meet the following criteria: 1 show a 5 year work history, 2 drop clean urine, 3 weekly or bi-weekly (unannounced visits) you abuse the system, youre off of it. No second chances. To Hawkeye, the police do what they can. Being short officers doesn't help them. Less benefits to bottom feeders now.
get a job
1:50 AM, 4/9/2010 jm, You know as well as I do, there are alot of citizens in Middletown with clout, and I believe Marconi may be one of them.
Well
10:44 PM, 4/8/2010 Well, Marconi is just a citizen now. What's he going to do, call the Mafia?
Dollar Signs, The city should find you and make you reveal your sources, unless you are just blowing smoke. If something shady is going on and you "know" it, you are as guilty as those in office. Anyone renting to Section 8 is an idiot. jm
10:15 PM, 4/8/2010 Better hope Marconi doesn't hear about CONSOC possibly being replaced. Adkins will be in big trouble.
Well
9:44 PM, 4/8/2010 There is a reason besides "concern" that council & city leaders have turned Middeltown into Section 8 America. I strongly support a government audit of this city. Money is being funneled in and out of accounts,money is disappearing from accounts,money is spent without any results being shown as to why it was spent and the list keeps going.There has always been a problem with section 8 here so why are they just now becoming concerned ?
Dollar Signs
9:27 PM, 4/8/2010 We also have sect.8 & trash is also a problem. The bigger problem is the drugs. Sect.8 is paying for drug dealers to have a place to sell their drugs from. One was finally sent to prison but the others are carrying on his business. The property owners are aware of this as are the police but they don't care. WHY IS NOTHING DONE ABOUT THIS? OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE PAYING FOR THESE DRUG DEALERS FOR A PLACE TO LIVE!!! It is so frustrating. Why can't law enforcement do something about this?
hawkeye
9:00 PM, 4/8/2010 Just eyewash. It's all about the money and hole council has put us in.
bob
8:59 PM, 4/8/2010 I live in a nice neighborhood but in the last 5 years people have been moving out and renting the houses section 8 and its been all down hill from there. Cars parked by the front doors trash all over the yards and so on and so on. The people on section 8 should have a rule in there to keep the place clean
JC
8:23 PM, 4/8/2010 I would have to agree. The tenants in section 8 destroy the house and the owner has to pay. Don't let them in and you will save yourself some money. Rather have a house sit empty and pay the bills myself then rent one to section 8.
section mistake
8:00 PM, 4/8/2010 Section 8 is such a scam. We had a few houses on it and they flagged us for the silliest things - peeling paint, screw missing on handrail and did nothing about the fact that the lowlife tenants destroyed the house. Just another way for people to live for free taking advantage of the government.
former Section 8 landlord
7:57 PM, 4/8/2010 |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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The interesting thing, if you will recall, is that when Judy first arrived in Middletown as new city manager, Section 8 was one of the first things she tackled. She wanted the city to pick a different vendor and dump Consoc. But several former councilmen wanted status quo--along with someone who self-describes himself as one of the largest Section 8 renters in Middletown.
Judy in essence was forced to back-down. She does report to City Council after all.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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I think this comment is often taken out of context.
I believe the intent is to have the best managed section 8 program.
There is a difference.
Section 8 is a reality for Middletown and for most communities. Shouldn't we strive to have a program that's managed well?
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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swohio---obviously we want the project managed well, and obviously a program of this magnitude has been more than our city admin can handle. Our prior Council re-hired CONSOC against the recommendations of their hand-picked committee specifically focused on choosing the vendor for this one issue. That Council also went against the recommendation of the city manager. Mr.Schiavone(real estate agent who served 16 years while this program mushroomed), Mr.Becker(city manager during the same period-"If it's not broken, then don't fix it"), Mr.Marconi(former section 8 property owner) and Mr.Armbruster(rip) re-hired CONSOC and the struggling inspection crew who still doesn't have their software data in full operation(the key selling point of their hiring).
Mr.Atkins has been in control of the oversee all along, though now he states that he has no control and the interaction between these three entities(CONSOC,inspection,city admin) is fractured at best-disfunctional at worst.
Despite the years of management, we have lost control of the program, it has not been capped or decreased, and city admin is very dependent on the govt.income to maintain many areas of city staffing.
We probably do not have a well-run program at this time. Credit to Mr.Adkins,Mr.Picard and Mr.Smith for trying to put this house in order eventually.
well written pacman
couldn't agree with you more.
wish your piece was posted in the MJ and elsewhere.
swohio--I guess that you have to live in and/or operate a business in the middle of it all to truely understand the long-range impact.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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SWOhio please name the communities that are in the same boat as Middletown concerning Section 8 in SW Ohio. Name the communities in Butler County that have 1/10th the Section 8 Middletown has in Butler County, I can think of one. Section 8 is not an issue in most communities in Butler County. Personally I don't think a reasonable amount of Section 8 and Public Housing would be a problem in Middletown. The keyword here is "REASONABLE".
When the census comes out and the Poverty rate in Middletown is between 25-30% if not higher this city will suffer financially for a long time. Dayton currently has a poverty rate of 30%. Now imagine all of Middletown being 100% in poverty that is close to what Dayton has within its city limits.
We should strive for a program that is reasonable for a city this size, in this financial situation and is well managed. We should not settle for whatever is thrown at us.
Whether you have a well managed program or the Best Section 8 Program you still have an excessive amount of Section 8 for a City this size.
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NRS
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Feb 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Pacman, SpiderJohn, VietVet, Etc. --
The issue of the City taking over all Section 8 operations internally was discussed at the first Housing Sub-Committee meeting of the City Council in late February of 2008. This meeting was held in Miss Judy's office with David Schiavone, Marty Kohler, Barbara Castells and myself attending.
Mr. Schiavone asked Miss Judy to actively explore this possibility. She noted that a consultant should be hired so that it wouldn't appear that City staff was recommending the potential termination of the services of C.O.N.S.O.C. By the way, C.O.N.S.O.C. has been under contract with the City of Middletown since 1990 to oversee Section 8 operations.
Knowing the feelings of three City Council members at that time, it's obvious that they weren't in favor of a current long-term department head being responsible for in-house program administration. Further, two of these former City Council members told me and the Past President of the Middletown Board of REALTORS that they'd like for me to head up the in-house Section 8 operations instead. It's my belief that there were four City Council votes that would oppose Miss Judy's probable recommendation that this aforementioned senior City staff member to be the Section 8 administrator.
Despite my deep resentment towards a handful of senior City staff members, MiddletownUSA members must realize that there's been alot of half-truths and hypocrisy coming from One Donham Plaza since I started work on 1/2/2007. The ultimate losers in this masquerade of game playing, back room manuevering, incompetence, extravagance, etc. are the taxpayers of Middletown. I may only have lived here three plus years, but I've seen and heard so much about the unnecessary decline of my new community.
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Nelson R. Self
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Wasn't Schiavone one of the big proponents of keeping CONSOC, even though they were the highest bidder by far on the current contract, on after they went through the charade of listening to the Cities Consultant and the Charade of interviewing the different companies to run the program.
Chapman recommended against the city running the program, smart move on his part, and also recommended giving the program to Butler County, Council failed to take his recommendation.
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NRS
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Feb 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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MiddletownUSA Participants -
Miss Vivian and I believe that there might be a forthcoming proposal from Miss Judy for Section 8 operations to become a City staffed operation. With over $1.0 Million in HUD Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) administrative funds at her disposal, just think of the possibilities?
Pacman, VietVet, SpiderJohn and others are correct in that the City of Middletown has sadly become more and more dependent on HUD dollars. Middletown has a "dim future" in my opinion.
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Nelson R. Self
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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PacMan – you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that communities are in the same boat as Middletown with regards to Section 8. I said it was a reality for Middletown and most communities and as such, we should strive to have one of the best-managed programs. Particularly because we aren’t in the same boat as these other communities—far from it. I, too, am of the opinion of many here that Middletown has way too much Section 8 and subsidized housing. In fact, I wrote an Letter to the Editor several years ago arguing against Marconi’s proposed “senior development” off Towne Boulevard because it used tax credits, and therefore would stipulate income requirements for those who lived there. And no, SpiderJohn, I don’t need to live here or own a business here to fully understand the impact. You can just tell by driving around Middletown and reading news articles. I also recognize that our nation’s current economic realities are also at play in Middletown’s own economic situation. It was indeed Schiavone, Becker, Marconi and Armbruster who advocated for keeping CONSOC in addition to a man named Dan Tracy who went on public record stating he is one of the largest Section 8 landlords in Middletown. In fact, recall seeing at least three of these four men having lunch at Mr. Schiavones now closed BBQ Junction with Mr. Tracy during the whole discussion over administration. And yes, CONSOC was the highest (at least at first) bidder in the process. |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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And oh - by best managed programs, I mean a getting the program under control that would at least stabilize (at worst) but hopefully reduce (at best) the number of Section 8 vouchers for Middletown.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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And I said show me another community with the amount of Section 8 that Middletown has in Butler County. Show me where most communities have Section 8 to the extent Middletown does. Maybe I don't understand your statement, but I know of no community, let alone most communities, anywhere that I have looked at that has on a per capita basis the amount of Section 8 Middletown does or one in Butler County that even approaches Middletown's Section 8 numbers, do you?
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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There isn’t one. I am not arguing that point. And I’ve never said otherwise. My point is, because Middletown’s program seems out of control, is in such a mess and there is so much to currently manage, we need to have the best-managed program. I agree with you on the Section 8 and subsidized housing issues. |
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NRS
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Feb 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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1) Wasn't it a few months ago that Miss Judy recommended to City Council a big pay raise plus nice promotion for two of her relatively new Community Revitalization Department staff members?? Didn't the new City Council approve her requests?? Isn't it true that the City Council said nothing or very little regarding this agenda legislation??
2) Does anyone remember the number of times that Miss Judy and certain City Council members have praised one of her senior City staff members for their extraordinary job in administrating the Section 8 Program??
3) What are we to believe??
4) Isn't it time for the One Donham Plaza super bureaucrats to stop the needless "puffing" and simply provide the Middletown taxpayers with transparent plus accountable government??
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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I believe that the exact phrase used was:
"There is no compelling reason to change!"
I, for one, simply cannot understand how being ONE HALF MILLION DOLLARS higher than the other bidders was not a "compelling reason"!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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I agree Mike. But as SWOhio stated that fee was negotiated down somewhat to 78% for CONSOC and 22% for the city. Just using round figures I believe the admin fee for the year is roughly $1.1 Million if all vouchers were in use 100% of the time. I think one of main problems is CONSOC has had the run of the place for to long and is not liking the more restrictive situation at this time, including loosing the income from inspections. CONSOC has been running around without any oversight for far too long. Personally when CONSOC is helping, if not writing the bulk of the cities Goals and objectives for the City Section 8 program I think we as a city have a problem. When the Housing Authority doesn't even have an open discussion about what is in the plan and what the citizens want you have a problem. When one member continually tries to open a discussion about the Goals and objectives of the plan before submitting it and is continually shut down you have a problem. I guess by Middletown's leadership standards it is always better to discuss your goals and objectives after they are written and submitted by someone else.....go figure. |
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NRS
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Feb 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Pacman & Mike -
From what I was told and saw, the only substantive dialogue from 2002 forward involved C.O.N.S.O.C. and one senior City staff member. It was a very hands-off relationship before I assumed my position on 1/2/2007. And, prior to my arrival, the Housing Code Enforcement staff was directed NOT TO CITE violations of Section 8 rental units because C.O.N.S.O.C. had its' own staff to handle these matters!! I changed this policy within weeks of my arrival!! From March 2008 the issue of Section 8 was handled exclusively by Miss Judy, Marty Kohler and Ginger Smith (beginning in August 2008)!! They are the three persons best qualified to answer these perplexing questions!!
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rngrmed
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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Is the list of which houses in Middletown are Sec 8 public knowledge? I would be interested in finding out who owns these properties and what position they hold in the community. Maybe that will help answer some questions. How much money is being made and where it is going.
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NRS
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Feb 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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You can request databases of Section 8 landlords as well as tenants from C.O.N.S.O.C. or Doug Adkins. Surely they should be available under the Freedon of Information Act??
I began receiving these databases from C.O.N.S.O.C. in 2007 and routinely forwarded same periodically to Marty Kohler, City Manager, Police Department, Law Department, Water Billing and Finance Department. C.O.N.S.O.C. was always forthcoming in responding to my information requests.
When you check the list of landlords you'll find that many of the Section 8 rentals are owned by Limited Liability Corporations (LLC's). I can remember attending a meeting on the second floor of One Donham Plaza in early 2008 when two very high ranking City staff members were speculating about a couple of City Council members who allegedly had hidden financial interests in some of these rentals.
Just remember, there's much more than meets the eye on Section 8 and the City of Middletown.
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