Well, after reading everything on this forum in the last week or so - I am now caught up on everything that has changed in Middletown in the last 10 years.  Nothing.

I was however pretty appalled at the minutes and notes from the last 5/16/17 council meeting.  Especially the report on housing from Mr. Manager Adkins.

I'd like to comment....so I have quoted text from the minutes and attached my comments.  I don't know why I did this - but I couldn't sleep and decided to have some fun.  I hope that this spurs some insightful discussion and hopefully (but realistically I know better) action!  

Wow.  Ok.  There's a lot in that last paragraph - but let's be clear about a couple things.

1. AK Steel's continuing shrinkage has taken a toll on this community more than all other events combined.  This is what happens when a communnity's government rests on its laurels and sticks too long to the idea that one big employer is enough for a community.  Whoops.  Oh yeah, if you need further proof of this - pick any former GM town.  Yeah.

2. The recession didn't do as much damage to Middletown as the Middletown leaders did.  Continual reliance upon nearly bankrupt companies to fund this crazy town added to the destruction of dollars in the cesspool wasteland known as 'downtown' led to this.

3. Methinks the AK headquarters move had A LOT to do with the previous two points.  Think about it.

4. Middletown schools suck - yes - why?  Because the reality is that many of the kids come from low-income housing, section 8, etc.  I live in realville - and in realville - those kids don't have the same support system at home that, oh maybe east-end kids do.  It's just nature - but there's not enough kids on the east end to balance it out.  I really don't think that Middletown schools are all that bad - but seriously - what do you expect?

Wow - yes - compared to 2000 - yep things are different.  West Chester was nothing in 2000.  Monroe was a shadow of its current self today.  All that great good wonderful cookie-cutter two-story 4/2 finsished basement and two car garage housing was built there.  

WHY?!??!?!  I'm glad you asked.  A lot of it has to do with geography and 'white flight' from Cincinnati.  Where did all the people come from that now inhabit West Chester/Liberty/Monroe?  Well, they sure weren't reproduced into the area.  Nope.  They got tired of life elsewhere and went somewhere where everything is NEW, BRIGHT, WELL-PURPOSED, LUSH, WEALTHY, UPSCALE, BOUTIQUE ad nausem.

And all that time - Middletown sat on its hands and fought companies and retailers who wanted to come here - in favor of 'revitalizing' downtown.  Yeah - what a VITAL part of our city that is.  And that right there is 50% of the problem......

The rest is JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!

OK - low income does not equal low education in all cases.  Just Middletown.  There's no jobs here.  Nothing for entry-level folks.  Yeah, there's some - but not enough for the population.  Lemme ask this - how can someone who can't afford decent housing supposed to afford to commute every day to entry level jobs?  Sure - we have some retail - but even it has shrank in the last 10 years....

All residential property has lost value just due to economic causes.  Now - Middletown is a bit unique here.  A buncha housing was built all over the town during the late 90's and early 2000's - all of which turned out to be cookie cutter homes that started falling apart in 10 years and as a result lost value just sitting there - let alone the economic downturn.

What the heck was the 'older smaller housing' supposed to do?  Magically become the aforementioned 'great good wonderful' housing without investment?  Of course they became rentals - that's the cycle of real-estate!  New housing in the XXX'000's, wonderful schools, great neighborhood, close to shopping, mature neighborhood, centrally located, lots of shade trees, quaint housing, fixer-upper, handyman special, high-end rental, mid-level rental managed by a corporation, purchased by mid-level landlord who doesn't even paint, purchased by slum-lord who takes section 8, then Middletown west-end HUD housing.  

Plus - if the landlords screened every one of their renters - they wouldn't have any!  Let's be honest - criminal pasts are not easy to overcome - and you gotta start somewhere.  There's room for everyone - but those folks need a place to start and they need JOBS!  Section 8, food stamps, etc are not the solution!

There's only one solution.  Everything west of University/Verity/etc....KABOOM!  But that's not realistic!  Get enough jobs so that people have some disposable income - and the housing will automatically upgrade as a result.  You know what government housing people find when they get jobs and work?  That they don't have to live in government housing.  We all live according to our means - and we've just got to increase the means for the City of Middletown.

OK - If all this is true (which I don't doubt) then outlaw rentals entirely in Middletown.  Just make it where you have to own where you live.  That'll fix EVERYTHING!  If I weren't a Christian I'd call this what it really is.....something about bovine excrement....pure foolishness.  Just by making low rent housing disappear - this guy thinks that our crime troubles will be solved!?

Oh wait....I missed the first solution.  Let's just haul off and build a bunch of half-million dollar homes in Middletown - why that will fix all our woes!  Housing value means EVERYTHING.

Start naming the 'tools' - I'm waiting.  Many other towns like Middletown have the same issues - yes - and they all have the same problem.  No jobs.

 

Vacancy is high - because there are no jobs.  No job = can't afford housing.  Screw the programs - get some jobs for everyone and Middletown will be positioning itself to be the next big thing in SW Ohio.

Laughable - even 'wonderful historic amazing downtown' isn't code compliant - and we've spent more money than any city around trying to get it that way.

Yeah - people will understand it when the council declares eminent domain on entire city blocks and wipes them out with a tandem row of bulldozers.  Don't worry says Manager Adkins - they'll get it.  All we have to do is create 'policy' in secret - vote on it unanimously without public comment or discussion and all the insiders in this town get what they want while the working man gets shafted in the process - and, oh yeah, moves to Franklin or anywhere but here.  

I really think that council thinks that we who choose to live here have nowhere else we could go/live if it weren't for their amazing job of managing our city.

That might just be the dumbest statement I've ever seen in official government print.  Let's get all landlords involved in the landlord process.  Will you be allowed to be a loandlord if you don't subscribe to the 'process'?  In what world is it proper for anyone to tell someone else what they must/must not do with their own property?  Is the city going to require a test for all landlords - and if you don't pass it they get to seize all your homes and demolish them becuase you might be renting to someone who did drugs in their past?  If your home has grass over 8" tall will the management levy a takeover of your property?  If a water line breaks - will the city-owned utility come and demolish your house?  Where is this going?

Congrats Mr. Mayor.  Brilliant insight - but not the least bit helpful.  Keep looking for the low-hanging fruit.  In a way - that's always been the problem in Middletown.  The real problems NEVER get tackled.

Listen folks - I'm no Rhodes scholar.  But this I know - there's no jobs in Middletown.  Until you fix that problem - you can forget any attempt at 'fixing' the housing crisis in this city.

Identifying the problem is easy and painless - and that's all they'll ever do about it too.  That's the track record!

From my perspective, things are getting better in Middletown.

I've been gone for the last 10 years living in other states - so I only know my perspective having been gone and come back.  I don't see it - but I'm willing to learn....

What specifically have you seen that makes you believe things are getting better in our fair city?  I'd like the different perspective.

Since March 2009, Mr. Adkins has been in total charge of the city's housing programs and neighborhood efforts (not to mention millions in HUD funding).  Are we to assume that you are satisfied with the performance during this time?  Just think of the positive outcomes that could and should have taken place over the last eight years if a real world citywide comprehensive housing market analysis and action plan was in place!  The days of big bucks from HUD are over thereby making these many unmet tasks even harder to accomplish!

Nelson Self

The construction on MHS and the new MMS is a much needed improvement to our school system.  While Vale is neat and historical building it's definitely time for it to be retired.  

The mall development is an improvement to that area as well.

These are all things that I have noticed and give me a positive outlook on the city.

To be honest, in 2009 I was busy with raising two small kids and trying to manage a household than I was in paying attention to the happenings in Middletown.  Now that my kids are a little older I have more time and interest in following the happenings around town.  My opinions is based on the last two or three years that I have been paying attention.

FWIW - I agree that there has been (albeit a small amount) of east end development in the last few years - It has been disappointing to me as all it did was recycle old space - yet we still have old vacant eyesores out there.

The school buildings are great - but what did it do for our schools other than put lipstick on a pig?  Sure - nice to look at - but the same results every year.

Joshua - I'm kinda like you - my kids are older - I'm paying more attention - but the one part I'm not sure about is downtown and the 'more and more reasons' to go downtown.  Maybe I'm missing things - maybe I'm not in the loop.  If there's a good reason to go - count me in, but other than the late night bar scene, I really don't see much.  Feel free to PM to me - I'd like to go to some of these things, but either I'm ignorant of their existence or the advertsing of the events is pretty poor.  Either way - inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not sure if I was assigning credit for development to anybody.  All I have done here is talk about the positive developments that I have noticed around town.  

That includes downtown, the mall area, and I'll even throw out Fig Leaf because it is a classy place that my family and I like to visit.  There is no mistaking the fact that things are changing for the better.  There are more reasons for me (not all obviously) to go downtown as opposed to leaving Middletown for shopping and entertainment.  That sort of shopping and entertainment isn't for everybody but there is no denying it's a reason for Middletonians and other folks to come downtown instead of going elsewhere.  On the other hand the shopping and dining development near the mall isn't everyone's style but it's still a positive.  I believe it a positive that there is a wide range of shopping and dining options but I could be wrong as I am not a developer.

Ultimately I believe I joined this forum for completely different reasons than most which is pretty clear.  I certainly don't have the history here that many of the posters do so my outlook is a little different.  I joined this board because I was excited about what I was seeing in my city and I wanted to learn more. 

 

You said this regarding the schools, "New buildings are just a nicer place for the teachers and admin to go to work in".  Aren't the new buildings also a nicer place for students to learn in?  Are you aware that the classrooms without air conditioning in Vale (which are many) reach the mid 90's for a good portion of the day?  I know many of you were barefoot in the snow uphill both ways but that does make a difference in a child's ability to focus at school.  It also has an affect on the teacher (they are human too).  The learning environment does matter.

Two imperatives deserve immediate attention:  1)  significantly expand outreach to residents, mortgage bankers, REALTORS, home builders, land developers, title companies, appraisers, etc., to enhance an understanding of the stagnant state of the city's housing market and neighborhoods (particularly older ones); 2)  the acute need for cost-effective, productive and appropriate city housing policies, plans and programs to be developed and adopted.

Sad to say, the past is the past.  Enactment of a fresh, market-driven high-priority housing initiative is imperative.  As was the case nearly 10 years ago, senior One Donham Plaza staff should reach out to the private sector and residents (especially former target areas) to establish; a meaningful Middletown Housing Partnership.  Continuance of a "government knows best" philosophy must become a thing of the past.

How do we do this?  Anyone?  I'd give everything for 200 Joshua's, 200 VietVet, 200 Whistlers and 200 of everyone else out here to show up at a council meeting and make a stand against these policies that are ruining our very special, wonderful city.

Anyone got thoughts on how this happens?  Evidently this board doesn't have the reach alone to make it happen - so we need to draft others....

Chief Muterspaw -

I have always maintained that Home Ownership promotion, targeted owner-occupied housing rehabilitation and an enhanced partnership with the private sector housing industry are three principal tools to help stem the tide of property disinvestment/neglect and an increasing percentage of renter-occupied housing units in Middletown.

It wasn't that long ago that nearly 300 potential first-time purchasers enrolled in Home Buyer Education classes sponsored by the former Community Development Division.  Concurrently, nearly 60 first-time home buyers were provided supplementary financing for down payment/closing cost assistance and moderate repairs (in a number of instances), also by the Community Development Division.

Today, the city has turned over its' home buyer education role.  It has also farmed out the down payment/closing cost assistance program.  Both of these key activities are now administered by a nearby area non-profit organization.

From mid 2007 through mid 2008, the Community Development Division formed a partnership with People Working Cooperatively (PWC) of Cincinnati that resulted in over $500,000 in funding for a lower-income owner-occupied housing rehab program.  The city provided $150,000 of HUD funds, PWC provided another $200,000 in labor, materials and capital, plus the Federal Home Loan Bank of Cincinnati provided the $150,000 balance via a Affordable Housing Program grant.  Approximately 100 home owners were assisted in remedying housing code violations, emergency repairs, etc. averaging $5,000.

Today, the city provides provides $50,000 in HUD funds and PWC allocates $50,000 annually.  The average amount of assistance now averages $1,000 per home owner.

When I was employed $500,000 plus was allocated for the low- to moderate-income home owner housing rehab program.  Additionally, another $150,000 was allocated for first-time home buyers purchasing homes that required rehab for loan commitment/closing purposes.  A couple of years back $500,000+ in the owner-occupied housing rehabilitation loan program revolving fund was diverted by city staff for even more residential property demolition.  The number now is reportedly 400 dwellings!!

Community Development Division staff established a relationship with the Greater Middletown Board of REALTORS then.  Paul Renwick, Board President and Walter Leap, Member Broker, both served as members of the former Community Development Advisory Committee that was UNFORTUNATELY disbanded by higher ranking city staff.

I am kept abreast by Vivian Moon and a couple of other concerned former target area home owners regarding demolitions in their respective neighborhoods.  They have raised valid questions regarding why some homes were bulldozed and others in worse condition were not.

It is time for Middletown to once again have a balanced offering of housing programs.  Much, much more emphasis needs to be directed to owner-occupied rehab and overall home ownership promotion that encourages both neighborhood residents and housing industry representatives to be meaningfully involved.  Without a partnership of some kind, the prevailing "city knows best" mentality will prevail.

I believe that Doug's concern for Middletown and desire to improve the city aren't  priority issues for many MUSA participants.

The above personal and professional commitments, however, are imperatives for any Community Revitalization Director or City Manager to succeed in the city.  An absence of either or both in a distressed community like Middletown would help foster:  questionable priorities and policies, lost or diminished revitalization accomplishments, stalled projects, re-developer favoritism, poor utilization of HUD and other taxpayer's funds, etc.,

Regarding community revitalization over the past eight years, MUSA participants have been closely following Doug's priorities, policies, plans and programs from a cost/benefit community betterment standpoint.  In a sense you might call this an unofficial performance evaluation.  Alternative policies, plans and programs have been presented herewith to help provide Doug and city council with other unsolicited revitalization approaches that aren't mostly focused on massive residential property demolition with accompanying aggressive housing code enforcement (especially in older neighborhoods).  

At this juncture in the city's history,, it''s uncertain as as to which priorities that Doug and city councilors conceive for short- and long-term community revitalization strategies.  It will be interesting to see their course of action from a budgetary and programmatic  perspective.  It remains my hope that enhanced and meaningful citizens participation would prevail over that of a "city hall knows best philosophy."

Thank you and your staff again for the services that you provide.

Nelson Self

Question 1:  Is it prudent for Mr. Adkins to continue his priorities, policies, plans and programs of the past eight years to address Middletown's most urgent community betterment needs in both the short and longer term?

Question 2:   Are there other sustainable, cost-efficient, results-oriented approaches to economic development (job creation), "downtown" commercial and neighborhood revitalization (housing) to be given serious consideration by Mr. Adkins? 

Question 3:  Is there value in Mr. Adkins accomplishing the "meaningful ongoing involvement" of the private sector (business owners, former target area residents, mortgage bankers, REALTORS, urban redevelopers, etc.) in jointly assessing and addressing current market deficiencies in Middletown?

Middletown is at a crossroads.  Fresh thinking is the order of the day.

Nelson Self

Question 1:  Is it prudent for Mr. Adkins to continue his priorities, policies, plans and programs of the past eight years to address Middletown's most urgent community betterment needs in both the short and longer term?

I don't know. Often I feel that we are so deep into a plan that we refuse to adjust or change course. I have different priorities, yet I am not a decision-maker.

Question 2:   Are there other sustainable, cost-efficient, results-oriented approaches to economic development (job creation), "downtown" commercial and neighborhood revitalization (housing) to be given serious consideration by Mr. Adkins? 

Obviously the answer is "YES". I would imagine alternatives/modifications to be considered, though flexibility does not seem to be a strong consideration in Admin.

Question 3:  Is there value in Mr. Adkins accomplishing the "meaningful ongoing involvement" of the private sector (business owners, former target area residents, mortgage bankers, REALTORS, urban redevelopers, etc.) in jointly assessing and addressing current market deficiencies in Middletown?

Obviously "YES" again. A broad mix of opinions and unity behind decisions would go a long way towards putting more on board and on the same page to our basic community goals.

Chief--I admire your activity here, and have confidence in your dept.and you. I also hold faith in Mr.A to eventually get it right. I can vouch that he listens and responds. We simply can't agree on some of the method. Time will tell, just who has fell and who'se been left behind----when you go your way and I go mine.....(Dylan quote)

A meeting with only police is a kind gesture. I expect most ?s would be towards Admin and Council. If they aren't represented by both body and mind, I don't see the purpose.....

Sure - I'd love to make demands all over the place that Mr. Adkins and the council must show before I will - but let's face it.  After reading everything here - I would assume that they believe they would be walking in to a pretty hostile environment.

The way to get the council and Mr. Adkins, et. al., to appear at a proper public forum is.....well, baby steps.

Look - all of us here must go to this event and meet and greet the Chief and his staff and whomever shows for the event.  We need to listen, participate, talk, thank and criticize - and do it peacefully and on an even keel - then I bet you might find some more willingness from the powers that be to sit down and talk at another date.

Look guys - it takes time to build a village.  It takes far longer to re-build a village.  I think this is a great first step.  The Chief (I know much of his family and have met him in a past-life) is not the kind of person who is going to be vindictive toward any individual over their opinion about any given matter.  Seriously.

I put the date on my calendar, and I encourage everyone here to do the very same.  You can't say you want change - and then balk at the very first change that is made......

Bob

Excuse me for simply reiterating what was IMPLIED by your post.  I meant no offense - but you did kinda slap the Chief instead of engaging and taking the first step.

See - here's the second problem in Middletown.  You and I should be on the same side, my friend.  I'm not mad at you - I stand by my words.  If you don't attend over some bull about the right people not being there, you're not helping  - you're not helping.

See - the problem today is we're not helping.  Look, I can lead a horse to water but you know - I've tried it - I can't make that horse drink.  What we've done thus far here is find a concerned citizen who happens to be part of the local government - who is willing to listen, willing to accept criticism, willing to accept solutions (not just complaints) and the first thing we do is knock him down?

Either we are part of the solution or we're not.  I want to be part of the solution.  This is step #1 - if you don't go through with it with an open mind and heart - forget the whole thing - you'll never be part of the solution.

Bob

For some time now Middletown has had a nominal citizen participation process when it comes to housing and community development issues.  The aforementioned forum would be a good starting point for city staff to foster a badly needed private-public partnership.

Please give this some thought, Doug.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the Chief and his officers.  Certainly a great chance to make something happen in Middletown.

Let's give Mr. Adkins a chance to see how this one goes.  I'll bet that if this one goes well, he'll be a lot more apt to participate in future forums.  I don't think it realistic to assume that Mr. Adkins would ever jump info a public forum like we'd all want to see - until he knows that people will be civil, that the discussion will be solution oriented - and you gotta remember - we've (and yes, I said 'we' because I have done it too) been pretty rough on him over time - and he's going to be reluctant to participate in anything related to this forum.

At  least I would be....

Bob

In closing, how many additional "chances" do Mr. Adkins and city council deserve?  Were millions in taxpayer funds really "invested" for highest and best uses on "downtown" and neighborhood betterment programs?  What has/hasn't happened over the past eight years to successfully address and help remedy so many issues?  And, as per Mr. Adkins, is Section 8 far less of an issue in Middletown because the number of vouchers is purportedly only 850 plus?

The days of HUD "manna from heaven" are over.  Were does Mr. Adkins and city council anticipate finding millions in additional "gap financing" capital to complete stalled projects or to begin others that are contemplated (Studio Theater, etc.)?

The time is now for Mr. Adkins to participate in an on-going substantive dialogue with concerned citizens, local business people, residential and commercial real estate professionals, urban re-developers, mortgage bankers, etc.  Middletown can ill afford eight more years of lost opportunities like the past.

If you ask me - and you didn't but I don't care - part of the reason that this forum is simply known as the muckrakers of Middletown is that there seems to be an attitude here of 'throw 'em all out - that'll teach 'em!'

You can decide for yourself if that is the way things should happen - but in the real world - things don't always work that way.  You are far more likely to find some common ground, work with people, develop solutions that everyone can live with and work toward your goal.

I refuse to take pot shots at anyone.  I agree that there seems to be a desire by council, et. al., to retain certain city employees in certain jobs whom we might all agree here have failed the city.

Now - where I think the dividing line is....do I really think Mr. Adkins, Mayor Mulligan, Council, etc.....really aimed to hurt our fair city with the policies they have developed and pursued?

I think not.  No one would do such a thing.

The way to fix what is wrong is to take the steps we are taking, work with those in office - show them in a calm collective manner what we think can happen with our city - give them the opportunity to work with us in a professional manner.....

Two outcomes are possible:

1. The powers listen, hear and take to heart the solutions presented.  They change/modify policy and begin to create the community we are looking for.  We have elections - their records stand  - and if they remain, they know they did right.  If not - well, they know what they should have done.  Either way - we get closer with each forum, each meeting, each election to a better, renewed Middletown.

2. They don't listen - and we take it to the streets and use whatever methods we can to replace them.

It's really that simple.  The issue is that as I read back several years here and newspaper articles and such - there's none of this being tried.  There's definitely a lot of complaining - but the community isn't engaged or even the least bit involved.  

That's why I think this is a great first step.  I encourage you to come and be a part of this event - I'm working right now to find a way to bolster this effort and really get a great turnout at the event.  Plus, Analytical, the more people that get involved and come to the forum - the more likely the council, Mayor and even Mr. Adkins are likely to attend....

So - to everyone - let's get involved.  Let's get this out there to the people....

BTW - can someone tell me who 'owns' middletownusa.com - I want to speak with him/her soon....

Bob

I used a word (and if you read the context in which I said it - it was used correctly, but I digress....) that someone can latch onto and then obfuscate the entire point of my post.  FWIW - *I* didn't call this muckraking - SOMEONE ELSE DID - it was their opinion and after reading years of posts here - I understand their point of view.

Argh.  I give up.  I'm going to do my best to ensure that this forum isn't just a bunch of complaints - but a place where the people and the leaders of our fair city can come and offer/discuss possible SOLUTIONS to the issues - not just complain.

Hope to see all of you on the 13th.

Bob

Secondly - I've not jumped any fences - I am firmly against the actions taken by the city in regards to the topics we've all been debating.  But - I am a realist.  I live in the real world - not some fantasy dimension where everyone believes that we can just rise up and slay them like we're in Braveheart.

The reality we have to face is that it won't happen that way - it never happens that way anywhere.  If it did, Trump would have implemented everything in his agenda already and he'd be looking for an exit.  But that's not the real world.  Plus we have to realize that there are people in this city who like what the council, et. al., are doing!  That being said - we have to learn to work within some of the existing framework to achieve our goals.

Yes, it's easy to get on here and complain for the sake of complaining ( of which we all are guilty ) but it is time to wake up and be the adults in the room and find ways to accomplish what we'd like to see with our fair city - and not be the ones who are putting the proverbial lipstick on the pig by constantly looking for the pie in the sky when there's a slice being served up at the dinner table.

Oh yeah, and we need to stop eating our own - it is a shameful and useless display that only serves to bolster the other side.

Bob

Screw it.  I have a corporate sponsor lined up, who was going to provide all kinds of stuff for this event - but you scared him off.

And - you scared me off.  You know - I'm not going to sit here and be berated simply because I am a realist.

You can do whatever you want.  I will be there on the 13th - and I'm personally petitioning ALL of the city leaders to join us - and you can sit your rear end at home being afraid of somehow being maligned by the powers that be.

They'd never do that in a public forum - they've got more class than that.  Sorry you don't feel that way.

Oh well - this could have been a big deal - but I guess since y'all all pooped on the party long before it happened - screw it.  I've got better things to spend my time on - oh yeah - and my money.

For those brave enough to give 'em another chance - see you on the 13th at an underfunded, under-organized event.  

Bob

I don't care what people think of me.  Period.  Everyone here should try to do the same.

Yes - they're gonna ask for name and address - no one from outside Middletown should be participating in something in which they have no stake.

There's just so much wrong with your words Whistler - I don't have time to deal with it all. 

All I want is for our fair community to get JOBS back here - so that we can afford to fix the rest of the city's problems.  There's a lot each of us can do to make that happen - and worrying about backlash from city hall should be the least of our concerns.

Bob

The only way to get the word out is to spend a little money.  I'm willing to put some personal dollars in it - but we really need some money to make something happen.

I have no idea about the venue-gonna check it out tomorrow AM.  We may need sound system and stuff - it all takes cash.

We need a moderator and and agenda - I'll volunteer to do it all - but this won't be successful if half the board is pooping on the idea before it ever hits the ground.

Bob

FYI - I've been trying to get the owner of the site to contact me via PM or any possible way - and I wish they would.  I'd like to use their 

                 You have made a huge mistake posting on this website. Just ask Mr. Adkins. No matter what you say or propose on this site it will be met with automatic criticism, negativity, and reminiscing about times past.  They will never let go of past poor decision making by past councils and will continue to throw it in your face. You are truly wasting your breath. Spider, Buddah, and maybe a couple of others are the only ones that are willing to forget past sins of previous administrations and focus on the current problems and try to solve them. NO WAY any of the others show up to your forum. They enjoy the anonymity that their keyboards provide. They would never dare act like this face to face. Never. You can talk about solutions to problems until you are blue in the face and your proposals will be met with ramblings about the past, people being fired by previous administrations, conspiracy theories, and cover ups. It truly is amazing. Do yourself a favor delete your account.   

But in any case - part of being 'someone' in the community and trying to push new ideas and such requires THICK SKIN.

For the lady with peeling gutters - let's make a public case of it - let's get names and addresses and hold people accountable for their actions!  If it is true - and can be verified - hey - I guarantee my friends at Cox media's properties will print, publish and air any kind of corruption like that.

I can tell you that my real name is attached to my profile on this forum - and I don't say anything that I can't back up, that I can't defend - and therefore I am afraid of no one - and oh yeah - a 2 second google search will reveal my address.

This is getting out of hand.  I support my leaders - regardless of my agreement/disagreement with them.  If there's wrong doing, I'm the type who doesn't stand down in those situations.  If nothing is wrong - I work with them and within their framework to change things.  That's the order of the world - you can't change that.  

Sure - elections matter - but until then - and that's assuming you get your way in the elections (which you obviously haven't been) - you have to work with them - not against them.  You've been working against - and it has gotten you NOWHERE.

Time for a new approach.

Bob

make this an opportunity to begin constructive dialogue on an on-going basis--PLEASE!!

If you think that the Manager meeting with Council outside of scheduled meetings violates any law - my lawyer friend says no.  The sunshine laws are there to prevent voting on public items in secret - and that's about as far as they can really be put to the test.

FWIW - I've been a nomad much of my life and I've lived lots of places.  This happens everywhere.  And, frankly, I could care less.  If they stifle my voice in the proper forum - then I have a problem.  That has not happened to me - and I don't think that has happened to anyone here.  Proof is that Mr. Adkins will talk to you if you want.....just make an appointment.  Meetings are held in the open and have comment sections.  All of your elected leaders are approachable via telephone, email, internet, in-person - it's up to YOU to reach out and make your voice heard.

BUT - just remember what it is like to raise children.  You can tell them everything - but if they don't listen and put it to practice - you have to watch as they make mistakes.

Trust me - if you are posting here on this forum - your voice is being heard.  If you are calling/writing your councilpersons - your voice is being heard.  If you are contacting Mr. Adkins - your voice is being heard.

Your advice might not be heeded - but it certainly is being HEARD - and sometimes it's all the recourse you may have at that moment.  Ultimately, there are elections - but for some reason.......

Oh yeah - here comes the part that is hard to hear....read VietVet's reply to me at 4:00 today....

It sure was easy to say that the people of this city are in the dark - but then he wants to list no less than 17 ways the city wronged its people.....but in every case - the way I read the charter - the council was in its authority to do what it did (maybe a bit unscrupulous for my taste) - but I believe they had the legal ability to do those things within their power.

Vietvet - everything you list in your post sounds bad - however - there's no evidence there that shows and/or proves any of it.  Yes, there were loans made - did they repay?  You don't know the answer, nor do I!  That's pretty close to slander in my opinion.  Get an answer (even if the answer is just a shrug) and then we can talk about where to go with it.

Has anyone here yet considered that style matters?  Sometimes you have to approach people in the right manner and the right way to get an answer.  I bet you I could schedule a meeting with Mr. Adkins and in the space of an hour, I could get him to answer any question that you want him to answer.  Why?  Well....

First: by now he knows I'm not going to lambaste him with a bunch of accusations.  He knows I want the best for the city - just as he does.  We may disagree on the method - or the plan - but we both want the best.  I don't want to tear people down - I want to lift our city up.  Much of what I read here (although thanks to those who have come to my defense and shown solidarity with my methods) is just tearing individual people down over decisions and issues from the past.  

Second: it's all in the approach.  I am sure that any question that I would/could ask would get a slightly complicated answer from a slightly tilted point of view - but there's always underlying issues that exist.  You have to understand that, right?

Third: I'm not going to waste my time on things like O'Reilly, Hobby Lobby and such.  Why are you?  Whether or not a private business decides to open in Middletown is their business - not mine.  Doesn't mean we can't do things to entice business to come here - but I can't believe those are even realistic things you would have aired in the media about our city.

Fourth: I'm just a concerned citizen who might be forced into action...and no politician likes that.

Listen folks - all this bickering gets us nowhere.  Let's give the powers that be one last chance to do right by us - it's not going to hurt anything - and if you follow my path, I think you'll get far more answers than you ever imagined.  It's all in the approach.  

I'd put in to be City Manager - but Mr. Adkins can keep his job - the role of City Manager sucks - you can't please everyone...ever....I feel for him in that manner.  Maybe I should run for mayor of Middletown? 

Bob

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Makes recommendations to City Council on the Community Development Block Grant Program. Members shall represent various population segments (minorities, elderly, handicapped) likely to benefit from CDBG, HOME and other discretionary funds.    http:" rel="nofollow -

Appointed by
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You just made an accusation against someone - saying that at one time they had a delinquent balance on a city loan.  

You provide no evidence (just that YOU know something) and you don't provide any information that they did/did not pay the loan off - and if they didn't what actions the city may/may not have taken against them or what any resolution was.

So - I say to you dear sir - YOU do your homework.  Accusations are just that - accusations.  If everything you people say you have on the city is actually true in its end result - you'd have no trouble getting media attention, auditors attention, etc.

But for some reason - you can't get traction - and this is why.  Incomplete stories only designed to denigrate the character of others.  Put up - or shut up.

There - you have it.

Bob

QUOTE:

The sunshine law allows for meetings between one or two different people to discuss things.  If you didn't have the outside discussion - no business would ever be conducted in a sanctioned meeting.  It would take forever.

I'm really confused as to what y'all are even arguing about here.

Bob

QUOTE:

For example, if there are five members of a school board, and only two get together to discuss public business, this is not a meeting and the Open Meetings Act would not require it to be open to the public. However, if three members gather to discuss public business, this is a meeting and the Open Meetings Act would require it to be open to the public. 

Okay - so - before any further accusations are made - I'd like to ask that any further accusations include details so that it can be determined in the court of public opinion if they are accurate, have any merit and actually violate code, law or otherwise.

I have a distinct feeling here that some of you just have a giant ax to grind for whatever reason - and i'm gonna call that out when I see it.

I'm beginning to think that this forum may be part of the reason that this city can't get anywhere.  Too much bickering over the past - not enough outlook for the future.

Bob

Let's imagine together that our fair City Manager wants to create a new commission sanctioned by the council to, oh I don't know, help spur east end growth.  Just like any other commission - it is supposed to have members, a charter, a purpose, etc.

The Manager drafts a proposal and sees one of the council members walking past his office.  He asks him/her to come in and talk with him and give some input on the proposal.  The Manager listens intently, has some back and forth with the councilperson, and may or may not make changes to his proposal.

The Manager solicits this advice from every councilperson he sees walk by his office. 

Two days later - the same councilperson walks past his office and stops in to inquire about the progress on the commission.  The Manager shows him/her the newest draft.  The councilperson says that he/she won't support the idea unless a certain provision is added.  The councilperson and the Manager go back and forth on the matter - and they walk away.

Another of the consulted councilpersons swings by, looks at the newest draft - and pledges his/her support.

The item is added to the agenda at the next meeting - where the proposal is read, and discussion ensues.  The councilperson who demanded his/her idea be included is visibly upset that their recommendation has been ignored and brings it up for discussion.

The council discusses - there's public discussion and comment as well - and it is determined that it should go for a vote.

The vote is scheduled for the next appropriate meeting.

The Manager is accosted by the councilperson who felt maligned in the process.  The Manager eventually convinces him/her that their support of the program is essential - and that though their thoughts were not put into play - that the program will be successful and it can be amended if necessary.

The councilperson decides to support the measure simply for the good it might do for the community.

At the next meeting when the vote is carried out - it is voted in on the consent agenda and put into effect.

--------

Now - it has been said on this forum that these little side meetings somehow violate either the sunshine laws or the intent of the sunshine laws.  I believe they violate neither.

First - unless a majority of members are present - there's no violation.  I have read lots of old posts here - and there doesn't appear to be a concern when this is argued over how many councilpersons were present (so, I have to assume it doesn't matter for the sake of the argument).

Second - the intent of the laws was to prevent secret meetings and secret votes - all *actions* must be taken in the daylight view of citizens.

Now - imagine the above scenario playing out in the manner of no meetings with anyone outside of the public council meetings:

Upon first reading of the ordinance - there would be three hours of comments and questions and idea sharing on just this one proposal - rendering the meeting totally ineffective as no other business gets conducted due to time constraints.

The proposal would be read, at each iteration, at the next meeting - what, 5, 6, 7, different times?  Just to pass something - it would take 16-20 weeks without any outside convo regarding the matter.

The system is what it is - I am afraid that there's voices here on this board who bring up these issues out of a pit in their heart simply because they feel maligned by some action that the council took.

HOWEVER - these same people only "want to throw 'em all out" - but for as long as you have been preaching that message it hasn't worked, has it?

Nope - I say everything that I say here to gently nudge each of us into remembering that it's easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar - and the approach of 'screw 'em all' is not viable to the citizens of our fair city.

Until we can demonstrably prove to the greater citizenry that our current council cannot be entrusted with another term - we must endeavor to work within the framework that already exists to make it publicly known where we stand, make a case for our beliefs, push them to enact a framework which we can work within - and if/when those efforts fail - we then have a case to take to the people and push for a wholesale change of our local government.

There's a method to the madness folks - but you don't start a race at the finish line.

Bob

Look, I stand by my original statement - this happens everywhere.  If every jot and tittle of every single ordinance/policy/spending/statement were approached in the manner you want it to be - nothing would get done.

And still, nothing happening there, IM&MAHO, doesn't violate the sunshine law.  But - I'm going to quit on that subject because I'm apparently the only one on this board with enough outside Middletown experience and knowledge to know that this is an everyday occurrence around the world.

Having said that - I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding the 'emergency' stuff.  There's WAY TOO DANG MANY EMERGENCIES with this council.

The Emergency codified ordinance is there for ACTUAL emergencies to skip the brouhaha of the multiple readings and subsequent vote ritual.  However - I read one where back in the day the golf course needed fertilizer and seed and such - and the expenditure was passed on an EMERGENCY!

Someone didn't do their job - should have been held accountable (maybe it happened - maybe it didn't - don't know) - and the expenditure should have gone the normal course.

Even on 4/4 - two emergencies were declared - Yankee road and a mysteriously located traffic signal - hardly I would think either to be an emergency.

FWIW - I think that form matters.  If people on this forum are going to rise up and run for office - they've got to be cool, collective and remember how you boil a frog - if they aren't, any attempt to run will be futile.

I think there's room for both sides in this world - what matters is being able to succinctly state your point of view in a persuasive enough manner to win your enemies over.  

Bob

I will no longer participate in the Middletown USA forums.  You may now return to your regular gripe fest of negativity.

I will pursue other methods of getting out a positive message about our town and work as closely with council as I can to make this city the best it can be.

It is a shame that someone can't just have a differing opinion and method without being shouted down.

It's been fun - like a good enema.

Bob

Oh yeah - as a parting shot - thanks for nothing.  This topic is almost #2 in all time views on this forum (from what I can see - no report to view, just anecdotal evidence and it's only 2.5 weeks old) - and was headed for #1 - but who cares anymore.

Make all the fun you want.  I'm not scared of your petty little insults.  You have no idea who I am nor what I am capable of.

This is one of the more viewed topics - because some solutions are being presented - people are finding out that there's folks here who actually care about the city more than their overly petty complaints.

That's what is happening here.  I encourage you to join me at the next council meeting (I was there tonight, were you?) and a Java Johnny's next Tuesday - I'd love to meet you face to face.

Oh - and thanks to all who reached out to me yesterday and today.  I guess it makes more sense for me to sit right here and keep participating and keep working to change our beautiful town into the shining city on the hill that it should be.

You knew I wouldn't stay gone long.... :-)

Bob - rust never sleeps.....lol

I am capable of leading any group of people, anywhere, anytime.  I can lead armies, accountants and even politicians.

Leadership has always been my game - and I've also always been successful - even when the proverbial chips are stacked well against me.

I have the JJ's meeting on my calendar - and I will be there even if my house is on fire and there's only one dog peeing on it to put it out.  It is my sincere hope that other members of council and city employees, etc., join us as well.

Drama seems more to be your game - I'm interested in hearing how to fix the issues of this city - and most of what I hear is a bunch of petty finger-in-face comments toward those who are genuinely interested in fixing what's wrong and making Middletown all it can be - not just what it will be.

Bob

Did you take your medicine today?  LOL  You are a crack.  

Bob

PS.  You ever call me 'Bobby' again - we will have problems.  Petty, maybe - but I've never disrespected anyone here.

In response from your earlier "critique" of my post that included only website facts for the Nicholas Place Apartments project adjoining I-75, I noticed today that monthly rents for 2 Bedroom/1 and 3-4 Bath units have been reduced from $1,145 to $995 monthly (special offer).  Larger 3 bedroom units were stated at $1,445 monthly instead of $1,545 (special offer).

I also learned today from a highly knowledgeable real estate investor that the first of several buildings to encompass this 216 unit development is partially occupied with some additional interior construction still to be completed.  The construction status of the other buildings is not known.

The above makes one wonder about the Middletown area market demand for "luxury" housing even now with reduced monthly rents such as these?

Nelson Self

Mr. Adkins, Mr. Bohannon, the Chief and Lt Jim Cunningham were there as well. Topics discussed included Section 8, upgrading the housing stock, heroin, crime, the schools and the performance, the city image ,city neighborhoods and attracting decent people to live here.  Wanted to discuss the downtown and the fascination with it's development but ran out of time. 

Got a different perspective from this meeting as to my opinion concerning certain officials in the city building. Have come to the conclusion that I have been way too critical concerning the efforts to date on fixing the problems of the city. Guess it took a face to face explanation.  All city leaders indicated to me that they were well aware of the problems and are attempting to repair the damage that has been done here the last four + decades. They indicated they can't do it overnight, to give them time to expect results. Fair enough.

It was a different feeling for me to be able to talk to the city leaders and not be confined to a council meeting format but rather have an open, no time constraint discussion about things. They were very cordial.

I very much appreciate them taking their time to listen and offer feedback on this occasion. 

Let's do it again sometime (with more from this forum participating perhaps?). If the next session goes as this one did, I will guarantee you will enjoy the experience. Nothing hostile about tonight's discussion. I think it went well with no adversarial talk in sight. 

I can't say what the build out plan and timetable is.  I am not surprised at the "special" rates as it is common for complexes under construction to reduce rates and gradually raise them as more buildings come online and the site nears completion.