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Teacher evaluations

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Schools
Forum Name: School Board
Forum Description: Discuss the board individually and as a group.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3986
Printed Date: Nov 24 2024 at 2:10am


Topic: Teacher evaluations
Posted By: sassygirl
Subject: Teacher evaluations
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 11:11am
I have called the school district and been passed around to several different departments. No one is responding to my question.

I have kids in Middletown schools. My child was getting A's in Math and Reading but not pass the state tests. Which makes me think, what are they teaching?

If kids aren't passing the state tests, teachers are not doing their jobs. What happens to teachers if kids don't pass tests? I read in the Journal that the pass rate went from 45% to 47% and the superintendent is happy about it. Instead, he should be thinking about what he's going to do with teachers who are not doing their jobs? They should have to take remedial "teacher classes", to learn how to do their jobs, or be fired.

I read in the Journal that a Middletown High school teacher said that student test scores should not be considered in teacher evaluations because kids are different everywhere. So is she blaming the kids for not learning.?  Kids are different, but the teacher's job is to figure out how to get the kids to learn the information they are supposed to learn.

I would like to know if I can see a teacher's evaluation before my child has to spend an entire year in a classroom with a teacher who's students are not learning what they are supposed to learn, and can I ask for a particular teacher for my student. If they don't have evaluations (why not), then I would like to see how many kids in  the teacher's class passed the state tests because I would like to choose another teacher, or go to another school.  I don't want to see names of students, just teachers and numbers of kids who passed the tests.

If I can't see the teacher's full evaluation, I would like to know how many kids in a teachers class passed the state tests. If the teacher my child is assigned to does not have the majority of their students passing the tests, I don't want my kid in that classroom.

Also, am I allowed to ask for a different teacher who's students pass the tests. So I need to see who my kid will have this year,soon, so that I can decide if I want to get a voucher or go to a charter school.



Replies:
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 11:37am
Sassy, I guess MCSD doesn't want to hold teachers accountable but other districts monitor and fire teachers who don't toe the line. Why can't we do that here? It's not like there's a shortage of teachers out there to replace them.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 12:56pm
One big obstacle here on accountability....the Teacher's Union. Based on past history pertaining to teacher performance, when you start pointing fingers at teachers, there is a certain amount of backlash one can encounter from the union and the teachers themselves. The defense mechanism really kicks in with them and the excuses start flowing.

The class size is too large.

The school text books aren't current.

The parents don't care anymore.

Kids come to school unprepared with no homework done, tired, dirty, hungry, etc.

I didn't have time to prepare my students for the tests.

The parents won't cooperate.

I never see the parents at parent/teacher conferences.

The parents won't return my calls.


NOW WAIT A MINUTE TEACHERS....BEFORE YOU JUMP ALL OVER THIS......

Couple that with the administrations refusal to provide support for the teachers in the classroom and the fact that the schools/legislators have decided to remove any and all deterrents from the classroom, prompting the kids to "run wild" and have no respect for authority. Schools are intimidated by the "sue-happy" parents if they touch their "little angels" who, in reality, need to have a board taken to their behind to square their attitude away in proper fashion at times.

The legal system doesn't help either. They (the courts) cater to the disruptors/troublemakers (parents and students alike) and treat them like sugar coated candy, cottling them to the point of creating irresponsible people/ little brats instead of coming down hard on them.

The teachers, the administrators, the police and the courts are all intimidated by the parents and we have gone totally soft in maintaining any semblence of authority. Authority has gone soft and we are way too "kinder/gentler" in our approach. The hard line approach use to work. It is gone and so is the control in the schools.

If you are dissatisfied with the teachers, the school system, the test results and the perceived lack of a decent education in the Middletown schools, do as many before you have done. Transfer to a better performing district (take your pick- almost any perform better than Middletown does now), go parochial if you can afford the tuition, or go charter school. No doubt you can do better with any one of these options. JMO


Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by sassygirl sassygirl wrote:

I have called the school district and been passed around to several different departments. No one is responding to my question.

I have kids in Middletown schools. My child was getting A's in Math and Reading but not pass the state tests. Which makes me think, what are they teaching?

If kids aren't passing the state tests, teachers are not doing their jobs. What happens to teachers if kids don't pass tests? I read in the Journal that the pass rate went from 45% to 47% and the superintendent is happy about it. Instead, he should be thinking about what he's going to do with teachers who are not doing their jobs? They should have to take remedial "teacher classes", to learn how to do their jobs, or be fired.

I read in the Journal that a Middletown High school teacher said that student test scores should not be considered in teacher evaluations because kids are different everywhere. So is she blaming the kids for not learning.?  Kids are different, but the teacher's job is to figure out how to get the kids to learn the information they are supposed to learn.

I would like to know if I can see a teacher's evaluation before my child has to spend an entire year in a classroom with a teacher who's students are not learning what they are supposed to learn, and can I ask for a particular teacher for my student. If they don't have evaluations (why not), then I would like to see how many kids in  the teacher's class passed the state tests because I would like to choose another teacher, or go to another school.  I don't want to see names of students, just teachers and numbers of kids who passed the tests.

If I can't see the teacher's full evaluation, I would like to know how many kids in a teachers class passed the state tests. If the teacher my child is assigned to does not have the majority of their students passing the tests, I don't want my kid in that classroom.

Also, am I allowed to ask for a different teacher who's students pass the tests. So I need to see who my kid will have this year,soon, so that I can decide if I want to get a voucher or go to a charter school.


The Middletown City School system is complete garbage. Four out of five School Board members are delusional, and lacking average intelligence. Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating. 

It's a joke

The quicker you and your child are out of this worthless district the better.


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 2:48pm
My question to Sassy is this, other than the grades, how did your children do on the required Reading and Math benchmark tests done three times this past year, as well as the monthly common assessments given by the district? Did they do well or show growth? I don't know their ages but how are their SRI scores in reading? Are they at grade level? What about Dibels (if they are in the younger grades)? Their teachers should have given you those scores as an indicator of growth (or non-growth). I ask about these other tests simply to see if perhaps they did well throughout the year on other assessments and then maybe froze on the big state test, it has happened before. If there wasn't acceptable growth during the entire school year, did anyone address the issue to you?
As for requesting other teachers, it has been done for some pretty silly reasons (this not being one of them mind you) so all you can do is ask.
As for seeing how many children passed for each teacher, I for one wouldn't have a problem anyone knowing my numbers from year to year, including the progress my students make THROUGHOUT the year. However, since people know who is in what class, I believe there might be a privacy issue for students, but not sure. Again, you would have to ask, or, in this case, keep asking.


Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 3:25pm
TudorBrown: are you serious? "Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating..."? I think that "Big Brother" and its NCLB highly-qualified requirements assures that MCSD's teaching staff is highly educated. Oh, but wait, aren't you the one that's concerned that our teachers---after spending $45,000+ of their own dollars to get their Master's degrees---are paid too much? I'm sure you live on more than $48,000 a year, and I'll bet that you don't have a master's degree. Or you'll lie about it. If you do make over $48,000/yr. and have a master's degree, how about quitting your job , go back to school for another 2 years to get your Master's degree IN EDUCATION, and then teach these students? Maybe you can raise their scores---after all, you have all the answers.

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c.h. moore


Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 4:00pm
chmoore, the whole union-inspired game of getting one's Master's degree is just another way of saying a down payment for a future annuity. A teacher invests $$ into getting their Master's and then are entitled to raises until the end of time.
No proof that getting a Master's makes one a better teacher!


Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 5:55pm

Stanky: regardless of who mandates that they must get a masters degree, the fact is that they cannot teach unless they are working toward that goal.  It's mandated, not optional.  In the private sector, an employee will--until the current economic downturn---get a COLA raise, along with other performance bonuses, profit-sharing, etc.  Further, your analogy to an unending annuity is false.   The pay increments may be $1,500 a year difference in pay, but during a 30 year career, they just equal the original $45,000 "investment."  What lineof work are you in, and would you be willing to spend $45,000 in 5 years to get a master's degree?  I would certainly think that you would expect some sort of pay-increase for that effort.   Also, and most importantly, what study are you referring to that shows that a Master's degree doesn't make one a better teacher?  It's very easy to throw that out there, but back it up with some data. CH Moore



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c.h. moore


Posted By: sassygirl
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 11:46am
To sick of the bull...It's none of your business, (how my kids did on the benchmark tests. My point is that the

Definition of TEACH is

1a : to cause to know something <taught them a trade> b : to cause to know how <is teaching me to drive> c : to accustom to some action or attitude <teach students to think for themselves> d : to cause to know the disagreeable consequences of some action <I'll teach you to come home late>2: to guide the studies of3: to impart the knowledge of <teach algebra> 4a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known and accepted 5: to conduct instruction regularly in <teach school>

Something is missing in Middletown classrooms. Teachers are teaching what they want to teach, not what they should be teaching for kids to pass the tests. I help my kids with their homework. I also have looked at the old tests on the state website, I don't see where the homework they get connects with the state tests. If kids are not learning what the state wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs.



Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 11:59am
chmoore, a couple points on your comment. First, isn't the mandate for your Master's degree something bargained for by your union? Who pushed for that ...the state? I doubt it. Probably something the union pushed for as a way to enhance incomes over a career.

I'm not sure what private sector jobs you are referring to but I'm not aware of anyone getting a COLA raise (Social Security recipients maybe?). Most people get a merit-based raise of, at most, 3%. And those raises have been gone for a couple years now. And profit-sharing is a fairly limited form of income. I'm not aware of many people who participate in this other than AK union members.

As for the sense of getting a Master's, it seems to me that the onus should be on you to show data proving that an advanced degree matters at all in the classroom. I don't have evidence to back my point but I recall reading major articles on education that have referenced that successful teachers performance has little to do with getting a Master's. Why don't we implement a system where the extra pay is given to the best teachers rather than handed out based on the Master's degree?


Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 12:04pm
sassygirl, I have a hard time believing the MCSD does not have a curriculum based on the Ohio tests. You sound like one of the many parents who tend to blame everything on the schools and teachers rather than helping your child study and holding them to a high standard. Back away from the video games, kids!


Posted By: sassygirl
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 12:04pm
forum_posts.asp?TID=3986&PID=28464#top">Back%20to%20Top VietVet View%20Drop%20Down

Here are my responses to teacher excuses:

The class size is too large.
Only 20 kids in my kid's class last year

The school text books aren't current.
Forget about textbooks, Hands-on learning, and the teacher, parent , student interaction  is much more effective.

The parents don't care anymore.
Obviously, I care, and so do the parents of my kids' friends.

Kids come to school unprepared with no homework done, tired, dirty, hungry, etc.
Is this a reason to not fulfill you job responsibilities as a teacher? Again, teacher, parent , student relationships are important. If teachers don't want to take the time to find out what's going on in the life of their students, they should get our of teaching. I know that there are many teachers who care about the families they work with, but just as many do not.

I didn't have time to prepare my students for the tests.
Why wouldn't teachers have time to prepare students for tests? I don't  get that!

The parents won't cooperate.
This is a good one! I offer to volunteer all of the time, but no one ever calls me to help!
So I don what I can at home with my own kids. I could help many kids if teachers would let me help.

I never see the parents at parent/teacher conferences.
I missed a couple of conferences because I was sick and could not get to the school at the assigned time. I tried to reschedule, but was told, by the secretary, that conferences were over and I could not schedule another one. I left a message for the teacher to call me, but she didn't. So I called for the principal, but she didn't call me back either.

The parents won't return my calls.
This is funny. Actually, I had a conversation with Ms. Leforce at Verity about my kids problems in her class. She told me that it was my problem and I should deal with it. I called her back, but she never returned my call. The principal didn't care to call me back either.


Posted By: ohiostorm
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 12:42pm

My son is now a proud member of Monroe Local Schools, thanks to open enrollment.

 I too had issues with the process of education my son was receiveing at Middletown. I approached this with teachers and eventually a couple major issues with the Principal and received the run around. I received only vague responses to my issues and when I gave specific questions that required specific accountability, she stopped replying to me. The current culture of Middletown schools has become so dependent on "We expect to be a failure because of all the poor in our district."
 For the Superintendent to state he was pleased with the small increase, tells me he has become part of the "BORG" The Middletown Borg that sucks the hope and life out of all that come near.
 
Our new MOTTO "We are Middletown and we are happy to just exist." Don't look behind the curtain and see that we have been failing for years and are still failing. Put on a HAPPY FACE
 
No one to blame but us citizens for not holding the leadership of the schools and for that matter our city government accountable. We have all gone to sleep only worried about of selves and our stuff while the government and educational system fall down around us.


Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 12:43pm
Sassygirl: Perhaps the problem is exactly what educators have been stating nation-wide---the "state government" is dictating what the students should learn, thereby making the districts and teachers "teach to the test." Classroom teachers WANT the students to learn (why wouldn't they?); but the local school districts should know what is appropriate and necessary to teach....NOT the State or Federal government (as in Ted Kennedy). Your statement has it backwards: "If kids are not learning what the STATE wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs." Wrong! The LOCAL DISTRICTS should dictate what they want their students to know.   Also, it IS our business to know how your "kids did on the benchmark tests." That's why we're having this discussion post. CH Moore.

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c.h. moore


Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:01pm
Stanky: thanks for your reply. First of all, I am not---nor have ever been---a teacher. So, it's not MY union. In fact, I usually don't even side with unions. I looked up NCLB: at the middle and high school levels, one of the qualifications for a highly-qualified teacher is a "graduate"--(i.e., "Master's")--degree. So, who "pushed for that...the state?" No, the federal government. COLA increases: as I stated, until the "bust" in 2008, nearly all unions negotiated an annual cost-of-living increase in their contracts. Once again, I am NOT a union member...just pointing it out. The "salaried" workers usually received the same increases, to keep pace with other rising wages. Another point: you "don't have evidence to back (your) point but I recall reading major articles...." If you don't remember the facts, don't make such general statements. I'll try to research the topic myself and report back. Last point: " Why don't we implement a system where the extra pay is given to the best teachers rather than handed out based on the Master's degree?" How do you determine the "best teachers"? What suggestions do you have to identify them and what scale do you use to compensate them? Thanks, again, for your input. CH Moore.

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c.h. moore


Posted By: ohiostorm
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:04pm
CHMOORE - If the problem was the state dictating what should be taught then all districts would be struggling equally. How do you explain the fact that Middletown scores are the lowest in the area. Even compared to similar demographics?


Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:21pm
Ohiostorm: You have made my point! It's not because we have less-qualified teachers than other districts. MCS recruits from the same pool that other districts do. It must reflect other factors, i.e., "demographics." I need to repeat that I AM NOT---NOR EVER HAVE BEEN---a teacher. I don't "have a dog in this fight." I feel that it is unfair to place the blame on the teachers---I understand that some teachers are marginal for various reasons---when the great majority devote their lives to teaching (and enjoying teaching) their students. Thanks for your response. CH Moore.

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c.h. moore


Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

TudorBrown: are you serious? "Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating..."? I think that "Big Brother" and its NCLB highly-qualified requirements assures that MCSD's teaching staff is highly educated. Oh, but wait, aren't you the one that's concerned that our teachers---after spending $45,000+ of their own dollars to get their Master's degrees---are paid too much? I'm sure you live on more than $48,000 a year, and I'll bet that you don't have a master's degree. Or you'll lie about it. If you do make over $48,000/yr. and have a master's degree, how about quitting your job , go back to school for another 2 years to get your Master's degree IN EDUCATION, and then teach these students? Maybe you can raise their scores---after all, you have all the answers.



I must have struck a nerve, I'm sure you're a fabulous teacher!  Embarrassed

I don't have a masters degree (like 38% of Ohio teachers), I have a J.D. LOL


Posted By: ohiostorm
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:30pm

In my post I did not blame the teachers. There are bad teachers in every district. Some districts just do a better job at holding them accountable or have a better contract with the union that allows them to hold them more accountable. I place very little blame on the teachers. I place blame on the administration. I do not buy the demographic argument. Other districts with similar demographics are succeeding better then Middletown so there must be other issues. I would accept that demograpics carries with it some challenges but others are rising to the challenge while Middletown continues to accept failure because they are not failing as bad as they were before.



Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:35pm
TudorBrown: I am not a teacher---never have been. With your J.D. degree (Right...!) I'm sure that you live on more than $48,000, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten your "advanced degree." And your point about 38% of Ohio teachers having Master degrees is ??????   Please do me a favor.....remove the belief that I am a teacher. I may argue for them, but I've never been one. You may rely on one thing from me on this blog----I will tell you the truth....I have nothing to hide.


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c.h. moore


Posted By: ohiostorm
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:38pm

I am not a teacher basher.

Some my best friends are teachers!!  LOL


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

Sassygirl: Perhaps the problem is exactly what educators have been stating nation-wide---the "state government" is dictating what the students should learn, thereby making the districts and teachers "teach to the test." Classroom teachers WANT the students to learn (why wouldn't they?); but the local school districts should know what is appropriate and necessary to teach....NOT the State or Federal government (as in Ted Kennedy). Your statement has it backwards: "If kids are not learning what the STATE wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs." Wrong! The LOCAL DISTRICTS should dictate what they want their students to know.   Also, it IS our business to know how your "kids did on the benchmark tests." That's why we're having this discussion post. CH Moore.


Just wondering here how the state got involved in dictating to the education people what the teaching criteria should be? Must have been a time when somebody felt something needed to be done to measure how effective educators were at relaying knowledge. Apparently, enough people were dissatisfied with the lack of progress (dumbing down of the students- employers who received the end product in the working world perhaps?) from the educators to approach the state legislators about policing the education community as to performance. There has been stories concerning the educational quality of the students sent on to the colleges. I believe I read a story a while back where Miami U. set up a freshman class remedial program to bring the incoming freshmen to the level they need them to be to start college. That doesn't bode well for the job that some school districts are doing in preparing the kids for college or to enter the work force. Employers haven't been happy with the kids that are passed on to them by the schools either. No math, reading or other communication skills have been issues. Perhaps there is a problem with the schools, the colleges, the state governments and the real world employers being on the same page as to what each wants and needs from the other. Perhaps each is doing their own thing with total disregard for the other. It might not be a bad idea for all to get together and actually institute a program that works instead of talking this thing to death. Unfortunately, it is easier to talk about a problem than it is to solve it sometimes. Solving problems requires committment, planning, agreement and implementation. No one wants the headaches in doing the right thing anymore. Too much "my way or no cooperation at all" in the mix. It remains the same failed, broken system it always has been.


Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 2:05pm
The state's mandatory curriculum is a bogey man for teachers to use as an excuse. The reality is as a teacher you should be able to teach kids subject X rather than subject Y. Is it that hard?


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 2:42pm
Sassy, in no way was I requesting your child's scores.  I was asking those quesions to see if you had an understanding of the data collection and progress monitoring that goes on in the district.  The fact that you became so defensive tells me you have no clue and therefore cannot speak to what is or is not being taught in the classroom or what your child is capable of througout the year.  As a teacher in the State of Ohio, I am given four books printed out by the state (your elected officials) that specifically mandates what is to be learned by the end of each and every grade.  Districts, with these MANDATED books in hand, then go on to find what they hope is the best curriculum available to teach to those standards which are then tested at the end of the year.  The benchmarks and common assessments I spoke of earlier, the ones you don't know about, are given throughout the year to monitor growth, or lack thereof.  If there isn't growth, we all adjust our instruction accordingly to accommodate those who don't get it still.  The ones who do get it suffer.  That is just a SMALL part of the process and to be honest, if you don't the process completely, how on earth can you speak on it, let alone piss and moan about it?  Just wondering....


Posted By: What A City
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by sickofthebull sickofthebull wrote:

Sassy, in no way was I requesting your child's scores.  I was asking those quesions to see if you had an understanding of the data collection and progress monitoring that goes on in the district.  The fact that you became so defensive tells me you have no clue and therefore cannot speak to what is or is not being taught in the classroom or what your child is capable of througout the year.  As a teacher in the State of Ohio, I am given four books printed out by the state (your elected officials) that specifically mandates what is to be learned by the end of each and every grade.  Districts, with these MANDATED books in hand, then go on to find what they hope is the best curriculum available to teach to those standards which are then tested at the end of the year.  The benchmarks and common assessments I spoke of earlier, the ones you don't know about, are given throughout the year to monitor growth, or lack thereof.  If there isn't growth, we all adjust our instruction accordingly to accommodate those who don't get it still.  The ones who do get it suffer.  That is just a SMALL part of the process and to be honest, if you don't the process completely, how on earth can you speak on it, let alone piss and moan about it?  Just wondering....
 
 
Sick.........in defense of Sassy and the rest of us who are out of the internal loop in the education field, I  would imagine most don't know the interworkings of your curriculum criteria as to specifics.
 
The fact is, you as an educator, are providing a service to the public. The student and the parent are your customers. The parents,  the people with no kids in the system, and the taxpayer in general, are looking for progress no matter the obstacles. We all have issues that provide road blocks on our jobs, be it private sector or public. We all are expected to overcome, adapt, and accomplish the tasks before us. We all must do more with less, both in manpower, money and sometimes, poor communication.
 
We all piss and moan about things we don't have a total understanding of. We all want to see results and don't want to hear the why' s and the how's in detail. Just get it done with positive results the bottom line for most.  We are looking for some good news from the money we are paying out. Are we getting our money's worth? Some don't  think so when they see the end results.
 
In all honesty, in my opinion, your last line says it all concerning the message some educators convey. You get all defensive if the people outside the loop don''t understand the entire system down to the most minute detail and seem to be very defensive when people don't measure up to your standards when they are not involved in your world on a day to day basis. I've noticed that a lot of educators are like that.


Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 5:40pm
W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.

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c.h. moore


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 5:42pm
What...I apologize for my defensive reply to sassy's entry. Please know that it comes out of total frustration and nothing else. I truly do understand that I work for the tax payer. What is most frustrating is that the low man on the pole, the teacher, is always blamed when teaching a child involves more than just one person. I absolutely love my job and the challenging children I have CHOSEN to teach. My students show growth every single year without fail but they don't always make that big test. If I could get them all to pass, believe me I would. The whole system is failing, not just teachers and it is frustrating when people bash without knowing everything. I WISH I had volunteers for my classroom. I tell parents all the time that I would LOVE to have them there but they never show. We have conferences twice a year and parents mostly don't show for either and my door is always open for any other time. All I ask is that people educate themselves on what goes on before passing judgement and that usually never happens. They see one score and think that's it, that's all she wrote. Nothing is further from the truth.


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 8:24pm
Dog chasing it's tail, childern having childern, so called adults using school as a day care who couldn't balance their check book if they tried. Teachers who are burned out because of the bureaucracy and the hope of making a difference in a childs development with all the good intention.  What do they do, quit?  If your not happy about the lack of response your getting head down to the next school board meeting and demand to speak and get answers. Or head down to the Admin. offices and ask for help. Document everything, it sucks but thats the world we've allowed to have to live in.


Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

TudorBrown: I am not a teacher---never have been. With your J.D. degree (Right...!) I'm sure that you live on more than $48,000, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten your "advanced degree." And your point about 38% of Ohio teachers having Master degrees is ??????   Please do me a favor.....remove the belief that I am a teacher. I may argue for them, but I've never been one. You may rely on one thing from me on this blog----I will tell you the truth....I have nothing to hide.


You could be Mr. Belding from Saved by the Bell for all I care... Hug

I applaud you for taking on the cause of defending the Middletown City School System.  It's going to be an uphill battle my friend!


Posted By: What A City
Date Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 6:55am
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.
 
 
Sounds like you and I went through the Midd. schools at the same time. I had Demetrion for homeroom in the 8th grade at Roosevelt Jr. High around 1962 I believe. Remember her teaching Latin. Never took the course. You would remember some famous Roosevelt Jr. High names then.....Harvey Apple, Homer Sorrell, Edith Matson. Ralph Rettig, Boeke, Valda Wilkerson, Krebs, J.R. Line......I assume you went to the old high school down on Girard??? Can't remember if Demetrion taught there or not. How about Louise McBain, Barbara Schick( great English teacher), Mr. Kleinfelder for physics, Roudabush for French, Eddins for Chemistry, Mr. Stiele (sp?) for Band,  Rice for Phys Ed., Stan Lewis -AD. Dean of Boys, Jack Gordon football coach, Paul Walker basketball coach and old Skeeter Payne as an assistant at the time. Gonna have to go back to the Rotaro book  from Roosevelt and the Optimist from Middletown High to remember the rest of them. Big%20smile
 
Like you, I never excelled in school. Came close one time to making the honor roll but never really took my "student career" seriously LOL (See the movie Uncle Buck) Big%20smile More interested in playing in a garage band, trying my best to run the women, partying and having fun rather than concentrate on the school stuff. Average student at best for me. Like you, it is too bad I didn't realize how much better off I would have been now if I had taken it more seriously and yes, I too, will admit it was totally  my fault. We live with our mistakes, don't we? Ouch All in all, looking back, it's been a good run. Have 43 years of work in now......8 more to go until retirement. Thumbs%20Up Gotta do it til I'm 70. Hell, I can't even plan my retirement right! LOL


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 7:49am
Originally posted by What A City What A City wrote:

Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.


 

 

Sounds like you and I went through the Midd. schools at the same time. I had Demetrion for homeroom in the 8th grade at Roosevelt Jr. High around 1962 I believe. Remember her teaching Latin. Never took the course. You would remember some famous Roosevelt Jr. High names then.....Harvey Apple, Homer Sorrell, Edith Matson. Ralph Rettig, Boeke, Valda Wilkerson, Krebs, J.R. Line......I assume you went to the old high school down on Girard??? Can't remember if Demetrion taught there or not. How about Louise McBain, Barbara Schick( great English teacher), Mr. Kleinfelder for physics, Roudabush for French, Eddins for Chemistry, Mr. Stiele (sp?) for Band,  Rice for Phys Ed., Stan Lewis -AD. Dean of Boys, Jack Gordon football coach, Paul Walker basketball coach and old Skeeter Payne as an assistant at the time. Gonna have to go back to the Rotaro book  from Roosevelt and the Optimist from Middletown High to remember the rest of them. Big%20smile

 

Like you, I never excelled in school. Came close one time to making the honor roll but never really took my "student career" seriously LOL (See the movie Uncle Buck) Big%20smile More interested in playing in a garage band, trying my best to run the women, partying and having fun rather than concentrate on the school stuff. Average student at best for me. Like you, it is too bad I didn't realize how much better off I would have been now if I had taken it more seriously and yes, I too, will admit it was totally  my fault. We live with our mistakes, don't we? Ouch All in all, looking back, it's been a good run. Have 43 years of work in now......8 more to go until retirement. Thumbs%20Up Gotta do it til I'm 70. Hell, I can't even plan my retirement right! LOL


What a City...you made me smile with the Uncle Buck reference!!! LOVE LOVE that scene!! "Here's a quarter...go downtown and have rat knaw that thing off your face!"


Posted By: sassygirl
Date Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 10:28am
Get off of your high horse, sickofthebull. Your attitude is precisely the reason that parents don't like to deal academic snobs, such as yourself.

Of course I am aware and know about the benchmark testing that occurs in Middletown Schools. My kids are well nurtured, by me. Their well-being is my top priority!. The Benchmark tests are supposed to align with the state standards. If they do, and teachers adjust their instruction according to student's weaknesses, why aren't they passing the tests? Hmmm.

I just read in the Journal that the district is expecting an increase in scores. I hope so, there is no where to go but UP. There are many other districts in Ohio with similar demographics, but their students are doing much better on tests, (See Dayton and Cinci Publics). Just go to their websites. They are already posting success. Look across the nation - You will find that students schools with the lowest economic status are doing far better than Middletown.

I'm sick and tired of Middletown teachers using excuses, blaming parents and kids for their lack of academic success. Perhaps you should open your classroom door and see what's going on (or not) throughout your school, and across the country.  


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 12:17pm
No high horse here sassy....my original post to you was an attempt to help you figure out the answers to your questions...you wanted to get defensive and nasty like I was trying to be in your business...after looking at my scores for my students this year, those who showed growth throughout the year on their benchmarks AND their common assessments (also aligned with the state test and standards) passed the test. Those who do show growth throughout the year usually do...that was all I was trying to get to...if your children showed growth throughout the year on all the progress monitoring that goes on in their classrooms then the test should have been ok for them too. As for using excuses, I have only ever posted on here what we face that causes challenges for teachers in the classrooms and also for those students who actually come to school to learn. These issues DO exist whether you and others like you want to admit it or not. You have stated that you have offered to volunteer but have heard nothing back. Why do you need to hear back? Just GO there and stay for a bit...it is DEFINITELY allowed AND encouraged....at least where I work it is, can't imagine it's much different in other buildings...


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 7:16am
If the teacher judging criteria is correct, Middletown teachers may be in for alot of anguish....today's Journal.....

New rules factor student success into teacher evaluations

BUTLER COUNTY — Ohio teachers will soon be evaluated in a way that departs from typical classroom observations and into the uncharted waters of rating teachers based on other factors, including student growth.

Provisions in the state budget bill call for “student academic growth” — namely test scores — to make up half of a teacher’s evaluation. The new annual reviews will allow parents and students to weigh in on teachers’ grades. Many of the rules now being developed are included in Senate Bill 5, which limits collective bargaining rights

GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE MIDD. DISTRICT'S TEST SCORES ARE NOT VERY GOOD, IN ALL GRADES, IN ALL CATEGORIES, FOR MANY YEARS NOW, AND THE FACT THAT THIS NEW EVALUATION SYSTEM MAKES UP HALF OF THE TEACHER'S EVALUATION, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD AT THIS POINT THAT WE WILL HAVE THAT MANY SUCCESSFUL CANDIDATES, DOES IT?



Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 11:00am
As I have stated before on this forum, Middletown test students on more than just one test in a school year to track growth. So, if the state would like to evaluate me on ALL tests, not just one, I say bring it! My hope now is that doctors and nurses start being included in this evaluation system...you know, how many people they cure in a year, how many diseases they find a cure for, every patient who dies, take a cut in pay,etc. Same goes for our police officers....fail to prevent a crime, take their money. Oh my the list goes on and on. Or better yet, why don't all us unsuccessful candidates here in Middletown go to an easier place to teach and turn our backs on those that need us (the kids) just because of the total lack of support from the community? In my classroom, and a whole lot of others like it in Middletown, I not only have to teach the standards, but also teach them how to dress appropriately according to the weather (because no one else is), show them how to eat at a table, buy them coats, Christmas gifts, school supplies and whatever else is needed. I teach because I love it, I teach here because I love it. What I don't love is those that sit back and complain even after improvements show we are on the right track, at least at school. The same problems at home exist and do effect performance but hey, who cares! Why would the community address that?? These kids, in some cases, need a strong male role model so why not volunteer at an elementary school?? VietVet, your military experience I am assuming you have would serve very well for our troubled kids in middle school and at the high school...walk in the door and volunteer that knowledge to those that can use it. Here, you are beating dead horse and come off sounding like someone who isn't happy unless he is bitching about something. I am sure my comments will bring on the bullying but I don't even care. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Getting on here, day after day, bitching about this person and that person only adds negativity to an already overly negative world. I do understand the frustration the community feels but there's new sheriff in town and turn around takes time, particularly when you are dealing with human beings.

I for one, am done here. I KNOW what I do in my classroom everyday, with no parent observers or volunteers around to know too.   I invite each and every one of you that wants to complain nonstop to come on in for a week and then talk about how unsuccessful we are...but it just won't happen because then you just might have another view of things and why would you want that?   Another idea would be to go and try to get some better candidates from Hamilton (who out perform us), Mason, Fairifeld, Lakota, Edgewood, etc. Of course, since our pay is about to go down you can't compete, Also, to put it gently, THEY DON"T WANT TO COME HERE TO THE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS and why would they? There is a stigma attached to this district that none of you seem to realize exists and no teacher can erase that with scores, that comes from the community. If you want me evaluated on the whole child, then address the part that I can't change.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 12:34pm
sickofthebull (teacher)- I understand your frustration and am glade you had the opportunity to take a well-deserved venting session.


YOU STATE.....

" My hope now is that doctors and nurses start being included in this evaluation system...you know, how many people they cure in a year, how many diseases they find a cure for, every patient who dies, take a cut in pay,etc"- UH, WAIT A MINUTE. YOU AREN'T SERIOUS WHEN COMPARING THE TEACHING OF STUDENTS TO A SITUATION OF LIFE AND DEATH ITSELF IN A MEDICAL ENVIRONMENT, ARE YOU? I WOULD GUESS THERE ARE MANY MORE THINGS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL AS TO THE DOCTORS AND MEDICAL STAFFS AS COMPARED TO THE CONTROL ONE HAS IN A CLASSROOM. THE BEHAVIOR OF THE STUDENTS AND THE DEGREE OF THEIR LEARNING CAPABILITIES ARE NO MATCH FOR THE HEALTH SITUATIONS OF SOME PATIENTS, PARTICULARLY IF THEY ARE TERMINAL AS TO THE SUCCESS OF EACH ENVIRONMENT.

"Same goes for our police officers....fail to prevent a crime, take their money" AGAIN, THE POSSIBILITY OF PREVENTING A CRIME IS MINIMAL SINCE THE POLICE USUALLY DON'T HAVE PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF THE CRIME BEING COMMITTED AND ARE NOT USUALLY GIVEN A "HEADS UP" AS TO WHERE TO BE POSITIONED TO CATCH THE CRIMINAL.


"Or better yet, why don't all us unsuccessful candidates here in Middletown go to an easier place to teach" ALWAYS WILL BE AN OPTION FOR YOU. NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU BUT YOU.

"I not only have to teach the standards, but also teach them how to dress appropriately according to the weather (because no one else is), show them how to eat at a table, buy them coats, Christmas gifts, school supplies and whatever else is needed" YOU DO HAVE TO TEACH TO STANDARDS. THAT IS YOUR JOB. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TEACH THEM HOW TO DRESS, EAT, BUY THEM COATS, GIFTS, SCHOOL SUPPLIES, ETC. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTIONS OF HAVING YOUR ADMINISTRATORS CALL THE PARENTS AT HOME OR AT WORK, TELL THEM TO COME AND GET THEIR KID AND DRESS THEM, FEED THEM AND BUY THEM THESE GIFTS. YOU ALSO HAVE THE CHOICE OF INVOLVING THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO MAKE THE PARENTS COMPLY THROUGH HAULING THEIR CARASSES TO COURT, LOSING TIME AT WORK (IF THEY WORK). YOU DO THIS VOLUNTARILY AND THEN, IT APPEARS HERE, THAT YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT DOING IT. KINDA TAKES ALL THE FIRE OUT OF YOUR MESSAGE OF COMPASSION/EXTRA EFFORT FOR YOUR STUDENTS, DOESN'T IT?

THEN, YOU FOLLOW UP THIS WITH....

" I teach because I love it, I teach here because I love" WHICH IS IT? IF YOU LOVE IT WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY ABOUT IT?

" VietVet, your military experience I am assuming you have would serve very well for our troubled kids in middle school and at the high school...walk in the door and volunteer that knowledge to those that can use it" I HAVE MENTIONED THAT THE SCHOOLS NEED THE MILITARY BASIC TRAINING APPROACH TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM STUDENTS WHO SEEM TO GIVE YOU TEACHERS CONSISTENT PROBLEMS. I WAS TOLD BY MS. ANDREW, THAT THE STATE WILL NOT ALLOW CORPORAL PUNISHMENT ANYMORE. IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE SCHOOLS BY YOUR VERY OWN EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY PEOPLE. PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN VOCATION VOTED TO TAKE IT OUT OF YOUR SCHOOLS. WHEN THAT LEFT, YOU LOST CONTROL OF YOUR CLASSROOM AND THE SCHOOLS STARTED LETTING THE PARENTS PUSH THEM AROUND FOR FEAR OF LAWSUITS AGAINST THE SCHOOLS FOR TREATING "LITTLE JOHNNY" SO MEAN. BULLCRAP. WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE, CAN'T BE DONE BECAUSE YOUR EDUCATION PEOPLE COWERED DOWN TO THE PARENTS YEARS AGO. I WOULD BET THAT WE COULD BRING IN SOME EX-MILITARY DI'S AND YOU WOULD HAVE NO DISCIPLINE ISSUES WITHIN A COUPLE OF MONTHS, IF NOT SOONER. "SCARED STRAIGHT". I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT, BUT IF THE SCHOOLS ARE NOT RECEPTIVE, EVERYONE IS WASTING THEIR TIME.


"Here, you are beating dead horse and come off sounding like someone who isn't happy unless he is bitching about something. I am sure my comments will bring on the bullying but I don't even care. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Getting on here, day after day, bitching about this person and that person only adds negativity to an already overly negative world. I do understand the frustration the community feels but there's new sheriff in town and turn around takes time, particularly when you are dealing with human beings". NOT TRYING TO BULLY, JUST TRYING TO DISCUSS THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THINGS HERE. I AM NOT PART OF A PROBLEM I DIDN'T HELP CREATE. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED, THE PROBLEM WAS CREATED WHEN YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM PUT THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS IN CHARGE WHEN YOU GAVE UP CONTROL OF THE CLASSROOM BY ELIMINATING ALL DETERRENTS. THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS DON'T RESPECT YOUR SYSTEM NOW. I HAVE A FEELING IT IS A JOKE TO THEM. TOO KIND/TOO GENTLE. THANK YOUR STATE LEVEL LEGISLATORS AND YOUR SCHOOL BOARDS AND ADMIN. FOR CREATING THE OUT-OF-CONTROL CLASSROOMS OF TODAY.

IT TAKES TIME TO TURN THINGS AROUND YOU SAY? WE PROPERTY OWNING TAXPAYERS HAVE BEEN WAITING SINCE THE 70'S, WHEN THE SYSTEM STARTED GOING HAYWIRE. WE HAVE PASSED MANY LEVIES SINCE THEN, GIVING YOU THE MONEY YOU ASKED FOR. WE HAVE PASSED A BOND LEVY GIVING YOU 45 MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS WITH ALL THE LATEST GADGETS IN THEM. AND WE STILL WAIT FOR GOOD THINGS TO HAPPEN, FOR THE SCHOOLS TO GAIN IN INDICATORS, FOR THE TEST SCORES TO RISE FROM THE BOTTOM, FOR THE SCHOOLS TO RISE FROM CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT TO AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF AT LEAST AVERAGE. REALISTICALLY, WE DON'T SEE EXCELLENT OR EXCELLENT WITH DISTINCTION EVER HAPPENING.


," Also, to put it gently, THEY DON"T WANT TO COME HERE TO THE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS" AGAIN, BLAME THE STATE LEGISLATORS, THE SCHOOL BOARD, THE ADMIN. AND DON'T FORGET, THE CITY LEADERS FOR FORCING ALL THOSE SECTION 8/LOW INCOME STEREOTYPICAL KIDS AND PARENTS WHO TRADITIONALLY DON'T VALUE EDUCATION AND GO ONLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO GET ON HERE AND COMPLAIN AND WANT A BETTER EFFORT FOR THEIR MONEY EXPENDED.

"There is a stigma attached to this district that none of you seem to realize exists and no teacher can erase that with scores, that comes from the community" WE UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA ENTIRELY. DIDN'T USE TO BE A STIGMA ATTACHED TO THIS SCHOOL DISTRICT. IN THE 60'S IT WAS TOP-NOTCH AND WELL RESPECTED. THE DOWNTREND STARTED IN THE 70'S AND HAS GOTTEN PROGRESSIVELY WORSE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. YOU ASKED FOR SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY. WE GAVE YOU LEVY MONEY, NEW BUILDINGS....WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. IT HASN'T MADE A DIFFERENCE SO FAR. THAT HAS BEEN DURING THE COURSE OF OVER 30 YEARS. YES, WE ARE FRUSTRATED AND MAD AT THE APPARENT LACK OF PROGRESS AND MONEY WASTED SO FAR AS TO VALUE FOR OUR INVESTMENT. BUT, YOU KEEP ASKING FOR MORE MONEY AND NOW TALK OF A NEW HIGH SCHOOL.....AND WE CAN EXPECT WHAT......MORE OF THE SAME? BAD MONETARY INVESTMENT SO FAR.



Posted By: chmoore
Date Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 1:50pm
Sick....To answer a rhetorical question: I fully understand how you can "Love it" and "be so angry about it" at the same time. It only makes sense---if you didn't love it, you wouldn't be complaining about the things that you can't change. The driving force for the last 40 years has been the societal changes as a whole: PC and tolerance on all levels have brought down discipline and expectations (e.g., the "student unrest" of the late 60's and early 70's, the relaxation of school dress codes, the disregard for school discipline, the "I'm a victim" mentality in the U.S., the MTV generation---videos that allow anything and everything, and the elimination of personal responsibility of parents and students). As I've stated in another post, school test scores---however given---have been a problem for decades. Remember, it wasn't until after WW II---"The Big One (Herbert T. Gillis)---that students had to go past the 8th grade. Before that, many kids didn't go to 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grades. Be assured, there are many stakeholders that appreciate your efforts.   CH Moore.

-------------
c.h. moore


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 4:54pm

Well put chmoore, and lets not get to out of hand with the numbers. 48,000 folks in town around 850 people signed up on this site (Randy correct me if i'm wrong) and I would say about 1/4 post regularly.  Comparing private sector to public is great but are the "rules" the same, I think not.  I for one am quite impressed that the Admin. cut 5mil. from the budget and didn't whine about all the services the childern wouldn't have anymore. I again won't speak for anyone on this site but if you think this is bitching you diffently don't want my childern in your classroom.  Sorry but some on this site look at the school sytem as a business (service) and we are the shareholders..  Thats how my childern are being raised, money is being spent on you and you will give 110% attention to your teachers and you will have followup with the CEO (there mother). I have posted before that many of the so called adults have flooded our system with unprepared childern and use our schools as daycare centers.  A few comments on this site shouldn't bring down the house, Mrs. Andrews certainly has know problems answering or responding to questions. See what happens Vet when you and Randy get on here and start laying out the "Facts" LOL everyones hair starts to stiffen up on the back of their necks. 



Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 26 2011 at 6:42am
ground swat writes..... "See what happens Vet when you and Randy get on here and start laying out the "Facts" LOL everyones hair starts to stiffen up on the back of their necks."

YES. I UNDERSTAND HOW SOME PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY THE LEVY BACKERS AND THE FOLKS IN THE EDUCATION BUSINESS BRISTLE AND BECOME DEFENSIVE, WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF THEM, THE MONEY SPENT TO REACH THE PERFOMANCE LEVEL WE ARE AT IN THIS DISTRICT IS MENTIONED, AND TAKING THE STANCE OF NOT GOING BLINDLY ALONG WITH WHAT THE SCHOOLS ARE SHOVELING AS THEY ATTEMPT TO BS THE PUBLIC WITH THE CLASSIC "WE ARE IMPROVING" MESSAGES.

THE NUMBERS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. CHECK THE NUMBERS FROM 10+ YEARS AGO AND YOU WILL FIND THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS TODAY'S NUMBERS.HOW LONG HAVE SOME SCHOOLS BEEN IN AW?HOW LONG HAVE SOME SCHOOLS BEEN IN ACDEMIC EMERGENCY? HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GOING TO SEE THE JOURNAL PUBLISH THE RESULTS OF THE SURROUNDING DISTRICTS AND FIND MIDDLETOWN AT THE BOTTOM IN ALL CATEGORIES BY A SIZABLE MARGIN? THESE ARE PUBLISHED FACTS. YET, SOME PEOPLE BECOME ANGRY WHEN YOU BRING THOSE SAME FACTS TO THEIR ATTENTION. ARE WE SUPPOSE TO IGNORE THIS DATA FOR THE SAKE OF RUFFLING SOMEONE'S FEATHERS? OR, ARE WE SUPPOSE TO KEEP THEM AT THE FOREFRONT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE CONTINUING ISSUES THAT MUST BE CORRECTED AND THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE TAKING 30+ YEARS TO CORRECT. THAT IS MY POINT. WE HAVE NEW PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLETOWN SYSTEM. NEW SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS, A NEW SUPER, NEW TEACHERS, NEW ADMIN. SINCE THE DOWNWARD TREND ALL STARTED IN THE 70'S. HOWEVER, WE HAVE THE SAME MESSAGE COMING WITH EVERY NEW CROP OF PEOPLE THAT OCCUPY POSITIONS WITHIN THIS DISTRICT. THE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT, BUT THE MESSAGE AND THE END RESULTS ARE THE SAME. WHEN WILL WE ALL SEE SOME REAL, MEANINGFUL UPWARD ACTIVITY? GIVEN THAT, WHAT HAVE THE RESIDENTS OF MIDDLETOWN GOTTEN FROM THEIR SCHOOLS FOR THE MONEY EXPENDED ALL THESE YEARS? THINK ABOUT IT. HAS IT BEEN A GOOD INVESTMENT FOR YOU ALL? WOULD YOU PUT MONEY IN STOCK IF THIS DISTRICT WAS A PRIVATE VENTURE ON THE STOCK MARKET, GIVEN THE PERFORMANCE, THE TURNOVER, THE REPUTATION, AND THE DOWNWARD TREND AS WE TRACK IT'S PROGRESS? JMO




Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 26 2011 at 5:21pm
Vet- It was not my intent to call you out on your opinions, I found the post about all on this site complaining rather sad and the poster IMO thinned skinned. You keep the posters informed and those that are paid by the TAXPAYERS on notice that a few do want meaningful and fiscal solutions to a very different Middletown of years ago.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 6:24am
Originally posted by ground swat ground swat wrote:

Vet- It was not my intent to call you out on your opinions, I found the post about all on this site complaining rather sad and the poster IMO thinned skinned. You keep the posters informed and those that are paid by the TAXPAYERS on notice that a few do want meaningful and fiscal solutions to a very different Middletown of years ago.


ground....Thanks...I did not take it as being called out. I am very frustrated about the lack of progress and the degree to which this school district has fallen in status in the last 30+ years. Realizing many things have changed in society since the days when parents actually monitored their kids in school and busted their behinds if they got in trouble at school. The schools busted the kids behind for bad behavior. All gone now and the schools are left with an unruly, out of control environment in which to teach. What would happen, if we took the habitual troublemakers out of the classroom, realizing, by law, we still had to educate the little brats, and isolated them in another school with some hard line ex-military people as instructors and admin? That would help the mainline teachers with distractions, help the kids who wanted to learn, help the resource officers at each school, help the admin. regain control of their school.....might free up some precious classroom instructional time for test preparation. Of course, there is always the cost to consider. Opening up Verity again for this. Paying the new ex-military instructors/admin. etc. ...all costly, but would it produce better results for the mainstream part of the district if we isolated the distractions and helped the teachers in the classroom? Teachers?


Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 8:59am

Vet - I think that is a great idea.  ClapClapClap

Troublemakers should be isolated - they bring down the whole environment around them and the good kids end up paying the price.  I would be the overall scores would raise.
 


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 10:47am
Vet, a separate school for "troublemakers" has already been tried.  It was Garfield Alternative.  It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body. It was closed around 5 years ago.
 
MCSD currently has multiple options. There is the Freshman Academy and Success Academy at the Manchester Building. These programs are not just for "troublemakers" but also kids who do not achieve in the standard classroom.  Basically students at high risk of dropping out.  These academies focus on self-paced computer programs with classroom teachers to provide direct instruction.  There is in-school suspension, where kids who are suspended receive instruction separate from the rest of the school.  The most extreme offenders are expelled or sent to juvenile detention.  We also pay for seats in alternative programs run by the county. 


Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 11:32am
I think it is ashame we have to pay for seats ran by the county.  Why aren't the parents of the kids required to pay?
 
I think more of a boot camp type program is what some of these kids need.  Sending them to a school with other troublemaker is not enough.  That is just what the want.  But strick authority is what they need.  They need to be put in their place and treated as if they were at boot camp.
 
 


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:00pm
Ms. Andrew ...

Your words....

"Vet, a separate school for "troublemakers" has already been tried. It was Garfield Alternative. It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body. It was closed around 5 years ago"

Ahh, but a separate MILITARY ENVIRONMENT SCHOOL has not been tried, has it. You will never know until you have tried. Instead, you have estrblished another program just like the one you said was a failure at Garfield. Why?

If Garfield was designed for "troublemakers" then why was it advertised to the public as an "alternative school designed to accomodate those students who could not learn in the standard environment provided?" I explicitly remember hearing this phrase being used when Garfield was being introduced to the community. At the time, nothing in the sales pitch mentioned that this school was created where the "undesirables" were sent as it implies the school district had given up on educating them. That, in turn, would have created a firestorm within the community if that would have been mentioned.

You further state....

"It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body"

If it was not successful, why did the district duplicate the program with a new location (the Manchester building) and a new name for the same program (Freshman Academy and Success Academy). It would appear that if the intent was the same between Garfield/Freshman Academy/ and Success, and Garfield was, in your words, "not successful", the re-introduction of the same program would yield the same results.....failure.

"The most extreme offenders are expelled or sent to juvenile detention"

Do you think the most extreme offenders are devastated by being expelled? Do you really think the parents care if their kid was expelled? This is a vacation for them to run the streets during school time. Aren't the schools, by law, still obligated to educate these kids? Wouldn't a military educational experience for these hard-liners be more effective than letting them off the hook with and expulsion? It would keep them in school, and would deny giving them what they want.....being out of school.


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:24pm
Just had to ask this question to Ms. Andrews....why not start where the behaviors problems are actually starting, which is at the elementary level? By the time these kids leave 5th grade, we are hearing the next year they are already getting into legal trouble, in the system if you will. There is nothing in place at the K-5 level for those children who habitually disrupt instruction and physically and verbally abuse children and teachers alike. In the past, these types of behaviors were blamed on the teacher or their "culture", what about now? Why not implement something to nip this type of behavior in the bud BEFORE they go on to middle school and maybe these kids ( a good deal of them very, very smart) would stand a chance in life? Isn't that the common denominator here? I am not talking about children who act out because they are bored. I am talking about the hard core behavior issues that will cuss you out and throw a chair at you to handle their anger. These children exist in your elementary schools in Middletown and yet it seems like it's treated like a dirty little secret. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like a military-type situation (no hands on of course) would be just the ticket. After all, the military provides structure and discipline, something that I think we can all agree is lacking with some of the children. Notice I said SOME of the children (before anyone gets their undies in a bunch). Actually, any type of system in place would be refreshing. Suspending doesn't happen much, as it brings our attendance down and gives the kids what they want, we are no longer allowed to take recess from them (and that doesn't work either) and to be honest, these kids know that truly nothing more will happen to them as their teachers can't do anything else, so why not act up? Again, this is but a handful of kids, but if you add them all up from each building then well, it isn't hard to see what happens next.


Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:35pm
Welcome to the school house emergence of "crack baby syndrome"
This is real, and will be a handfu as it works through the school/justice systemsl.
I agree that the isolation/transfer MUST occur as soon as the pattern is detected.
Concentrate on those WANTING to learn first and foremost.
Sometimes you simply can't help someone--even at a very young age
Not to stop trying--but different methods must be used imo
You must examine the out-of-class environment to evalauate your possibilities
 
not a licensed educator, however I see it and deal  with it daily.
We can do all that we can--no more
Sometimes you have to move on to a winnable project
 
weed and seed


Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

If Garfield was designed for "troublemakers" then why was it advertised to the public as an "alternative school designed to accomodate those students who could not learn in the standard environment provided?"

Because it sounded more PC than, "an alternative school for keeping the riff raff with no interest in learning away from the rest of the student population?"


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:27pm
Vet, I was not on the Board when Garfield was started, so I do not know how it was advertized to the public.  The Success and Freshman Academies are not a duplication of Garfield. It is true they both have the same goals (remove troublemakers and potential dropouts from main building and turn them around to successfully graduate), but they use different methods. There are many differences, but one important one is that a referral to Success or Freshman Academy is not an involuntary discipline result, the student and parent(s) must agree and make certain commitments to the program. This is a recognition that the child's family has to be involved and supportive for real results.
 
No, we do not think that the extreme offenders are devastated by being expelled. We agree that is probably exactly what they wanted.  That is why we only resort to expulsion after other consequences fail and when the student is a danger to others.
 
Sick of the Bull, I agree that we need to start in elementary school.  Some children come to school without knowing how to behave in a school environment (many more now than 20 or 30 years ago). The teachers union, the school board and the administration have been working together on a committee addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture.  The committee explored many different approaches and agreed to adopt the Safe and Civil Schools/Positive Behavioral Supports approach, which each building will be implementing starting this fall. (Several buildings --incl. Mayfield and Rosa Parks-- started doing this on their own the last year or two, with promising results).  Basically, it involves setting firm, consistent rules and procedures and actively teaching children how to behave, with firm and clear consequences.  That should be the parents' job, not the teachers and other school staff, but it is just a reallity that many kids are not taught this outside of school.  All the adults in the building need to be consistent with their expectations.
 
My own personal opinion is that yelling and screaming at, barking orders at, and/or hitting children, is not the best way to discipline children. And actually, it teaches them a sad lesson about power and authority giving people the right to yell, scream at and physically abuse other people. But kids do need clear, firm rules and boundaries, with clear and firm consequences if they do not follow the rules.


Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:42pm
Ms. Andrews thank you for your response. I sincerely hope that we can begin to see a serious turnaround in the behavior department in a way that helps the kids. I am aware of the Positive Behavioral Supports approach that is coming this year and have high hopes that it will help turn things around. Another hope I have is that, in the event that this does not work, there is a plan B. Middletown needs what other districts already have and that is ZERO tolerance for violence in the classroom...no excuses...same goes for chronic disruptions....they need to be put back in the hands of their parents if they can't get it right, no matter how said parents threaten lawsuits. I think that is why we have the behavior issues we didn't have the 20 or 30 years ago you mentioned. It simply wasn't tolerated in school, period.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 9:58pm
Ms. Andrew states....

"My own personal opinion is that yelling and screaming at, barking orders at, and/or hitting children, is not the best way to discipline children"

Hitting....certainly no place for that. No doubt. No need for it either when people can be motivated verbally.

I would like to point out, since you are probably not familiar with the military boot camp environment, that yelling, screaming and barking orders is an effective way to motivate people and it is proven with every platoon (Army and Marines), flight (Air Force) and whatever the Navy calls their group of basic training people. It has been done with success on a repetitive basis for decades and has motivated the most extreme cases of unmotivated/undisciplined/unorganized people who have entered the programs.

The military can take 40 people, some farmers, momma's boys, tough guys, some inner city street people, people from all walks of life and all levels of wealth, and can have them all marching, eating, dressing, talking, following orders, accepting rules, sleeping at the same time, waking up at the same time, and at the end of the program, be it 6 weeks or 13 weeks, have them all interacting like a well tuned machine. The only difference here is the age level in our discussion. From my experiences in the military, a downsized dose of a boot camp environment (like the military academies) would help immensely with your discipline, behavioral issues and would incorporate the job the parents should be doing while learning in the classroom. If you saw what the drill instructors had to work with in the beginning and then saw the finished product at the end of basic, I believe you might be impressed Ms. Andrew. There are other ways beside the "kinder/gentler" approach that you seem to support. IMO, the kinder/gentler way is part of the reason we have discipline issues and people laughing at the system now. We have already been on the path you are suggesting and there is no proof that it is effective. It has actually created more discipline issues hasn't it? Time for a change, isn't it?


Posted By: silver bells
Date Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 10:46pm

I appreciate both Ms. Andrew’s and Mr. Fiora’s responses to concerns and questions that residents have. I respectfully disagree with Ms. Andrew’s statement that Garfield Alternative was not successful in educating those sent there or in improving the classroom environment at the high school. Since I know a handful of teachers who taught there for years, I rely on their assessment since they were in the “belly of the beast.” Many troubled students remained in school at Garfield because of the structured environment and the close relationships established with a caring faculty. Many learned something to some degree, and felt they had a safe place to come to every day. Everything is relative. These same kids would most likely have dropped out or been expelled at the high school.

As for their removal not “improving the classroom environment,” I will repeat what I have said before. It wasn’t their presence or absence that affected behavior in the classroom environment as much as a lack of consistent and appropriate disciplinary and academic standards throughout the district. When Garfield teachers returned to the high school after Garfield was shut down, they commented that the same behaviors that had brought students to Garfield were common in the main building.

It’s ironic (or maybe not so much) that Steve Price made it a point to shut down Garfield and then proceeded to put in place policies that made it almost impossible to expel or even suspend students. He trained the principals on how to keep the serious miscreants inside the corral, which was on the backs of teachers who wanted to teach and students who came to learn, all in the name of “cultural sensitivity and equity.” Do I need to spell out the results for the classroom environment?

By the way, let’s be clear that the district is NOT 100% low income urban kids, not by any stretch. Some of our kids come from middle and upper income families. We also have low income but stable families that support their children’s education. The fact that over 70% of the school district’s students are economically disadvantaged doesn’t automatically mean they can’t learn, don’t want to learn or that they come to make trouble.

And what role have administrators played in keeping our district in the basement? We had a superintendent (Price) who destroyed morale and appropriate expectations and standards during his tenure. At the high school, they had a principal who epitomized the definition of “bully,” further demoralizing and destroying any chance for achievement. These administrators ruled for years. And others like them were in place, and some still are. Now think about trying to create objective teacher evaluations under these conditions.

It took one board member, John Sauter, to step out courageously in 2009 and seek input from the district staff when he, as a relatively new member, lost all faith in Price. He clearly saw Price’s manipulative and intimidating tactics and called it for what it was. He got plenty of input. There followed the whooshing sound of the house of cards falling at the district office. Unfortunately, too many of Price’s lieutenants remained in the district to continue to poison efforts to forge ahead.

Slowly we are emerging from this dark period. We have a superintendent who is smart, articulate, and who is quick to show his appreciation for our efforts and to use two little words, “thank you,” often. His efforts to turn the ship around have been consistent and sincere.

At the high school, they have a new principal who is a veteran in the district but who has never been a part of the ugly machinations of the previous administration. Unlike the relentless negativity of the past eight years, Mrs. Cotter is positive and upbeat almost to a fault, and she has worked with the most difficult students in her role as administrator of the Success Academy, so she is neither naïve nor clueless. She has been on the battle lines right along, and sometimes at the punishing end of administrative behavior. These changes inspire hope for better things to come.

Since this thread started with comments about teacher evaluations, let me finish by quoting relevant comments made by Ms. Andrew’s in another thread about our students’ performance: “the absolute truth is that the single most predictive factor of how kids will perform on standardized tests is their socio-economic background. Generally (of course there are exceptions), if they live in a middle or upper class household, they will tend to score better than if they live in a poor household.”  

In the same thread her words echo what I have said in this forum in an earlier blog: “education is not passive. It is not the teachers’ job to pour knowledge into an empty vessel. Learning is interactive, and requires active participation from the students. Many (not all) students in our district do not put forth the required effort.” Simply, the student’s willingness to learn is the decisive factor.

However, students CAN rise above their environment and be responsible, willing learners when they are in a school culture of high expectations. That hasn’t happened yet in MCSD.

Finally, Ms. Andrew says that “The teachers union, the school board and the administration have been working together on a committee addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture.  The committee explored many different approaches and agreed to adopt the Safe and Civil Schools/Positive Behavioral Supports approach, which each building will be implementing starting this fall.

I am happy to hear this—this committee has been “addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture” issues for over four years (!), and this is the first result to come out of it. All I can say is that if the district again ignores the need for high expectations and standards and, as Ms. Andrew asserts, “clear, firm rules and boundaries, with clear and firm consequences if they do not follow the rules” and falls back on a touchy feely approach, we’re dead in the water. Again.

 

 



Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 3:53am

Hear, hear, Silverbells!!!  Your words ring true…we can only hope that they actually are prologue to the improvement that is possible.

However, most likely Middletonians are fed up with the broken promises of the past, and will likely wait for results before sending any more of their hard-earned money towards another levy based solely on promises or hope of improvement.



-------------
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 9:46am
Silver Bells, were you a fly on the wall in our board/director retreat this week?  Creating a culture of high expectations and academic rigor was one of the main topics.  As I appreciate your thoughtful comments on this thread, do you have any specific suggestions of what should be done to instill those high expectations?
 
You were right to call me out for over-generalizing about Garfield.  I meant that as a whole, the school was not successful.  I did not mean to imply that it didn't work for anyone, or that there were not many students who were turned around by their time at Garfield.
 
You criticize past (mostly) administrators for the environment surrounding discipline and low expectations (both as to behavior and as to academics).  I would agree that the approach of the prior administration has been proven to be a failure. Would you admit that teachers (at least some of them) bear some of the responsibility for both poor discipline and low expectations?  Because, to borrow your phrasing, we are "dead in the water" if ALL teachers do not get on board.  


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 12:22pm
After reading the responses and thorough details provided by Mr. Fiora and Ms. Andrew is such, as well as the correlation between the school performance 9or lack thereof) and the city counicl and city leadership's actions, I would like for them both to consider making  run on city council in 2011. By doing so, they would also be able to impact both city performance and accompanying performance in school results. The coorelation between positive impact of the city and gains in school testing are an absolute direct coorelation.
 
I have no idea of whether either have the time to fill both a position on council and the BOE, but they would be a welcome addition for many reasons. I trust they might consider the impact they would have in doing so.
 
Furthermore, the drop out rate in Middletown is simply unacceptable. You cannot have an 82% PASS rate, but the surrounding schools are hitting 99%. The system is not competitive. When you can't compete, you have no increase in student population. When you have 20% of stdent body dropping out, the system isn't academically challenging. Until this is fixed, there is no hope for a future. Whether the system is gaining pts in performamce measure matters not, when the indicators are only 45% of what is required, and when the surrounding communities have increased its output and remains far superior to Middletown.
 
Hence, let is hope these two BOE members will also consider running for council, as there is a direct coorelation between the city and council....and the failures of the school district.     


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 1:55pm
Acclaro, I appreciate your expression of confidence. I always thought that one person could not hold 2 elected positions at the same time, but I may be wrong.
 
I heartily agree that the school system cannot solve all of its problems on its own, due to the connections between schools and the community from which they draw their students.  My effort at trying to improve the community has been through active involvement in the United Way.  The United Way's focus is the three benchmarks for a good life and strong communities--education, income and health. The United Way coordinates, funds and monitors many charitable programs that will help students arrive in kindergarden ready to learn, instead of already behind, and to succeed in school during their school years. Of particular relevance to the struggles of the school system are the Success by Six initiative aimed at giving children the opportunity for quality pre-school, and the Dolly Parton Imagination Library, that provides any child a free book once a month from birth through age 5.


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Silver Bells, were you a fly on the wall in our board/director retreat this week?  Creating a culture of high expectations and academic rigor was one of the main topics.  As I appreciate your thoughtful comments on this thread, do you have any specific suggestions of what should be done to instill those high expectations?
 
You were right to call me out for over-generalizing about Garfield.  I meant that as a whole, the school was not successful.  I did not mean to imply that it didn't work for anyone, or that there were not many students who were turned around by their time at Garfield.
 
You criticize past (mostly) administrators for the environment surrounding discipline and low expectations (both as to behavior and as to academics).  I would agree that the approach of the prior administration has been proven to be a failure. Would you admit that teachers (at least some of them) bear some of the responsibility for both poor discipline and low expectations?  Because, to borrow your phrasing, we are "dead in the water" if ALL teachers do not get on board.  
 
How about a date in court for parents whos kids don't show up for school,preform poorly or act out or are disrespectful to others while in school? A relative of mine had a kid in the 9th grade that missed 58 days of school in one year mostly because he just decided he didn't want to go,how did middletown schools handle that? They offered up the garfield option he really liked that school he could show up when he wanted and got his butte kissed so he wouldn't drop out and he got to listen and play music all day.
 
In short until you find a way to get the useless parents involved our school system will never improve.


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 5:49pm
Bocephus, we do take kids and parents to court for chronic truancy, which is defined by law as 30 days or more absent in one school year. Less than that is not against the law so we can't go to court over it.  It is also not against the law to perform poorly or be disrespectful in school.  The school board can't write the laws, that's the geniuses up in Columbus.
 
I can't speak to your relatives' situation, other than to say it was obviously many years ago if the kid was sent to Garfield.


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 9:45pm

Middletown schools begin when?  Proof is in the puddin.  Sorry, talk is cheap and back slapping ,hoping the words come true is without a doubt old news. Lets have zero phone calls to the police this year, could we try for that.  The bulk of Middletown taxpayers are doing their job, by working hard and having money removed from their pay checks every month to SUPPORT the cities school system.  Stop talking about the past and what was handed down.  Turn it around, Lead,Follow or get out of the way.  Enough with the talk.



Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 7:53am
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Bocephus, we do take kids and parents to court for chronic truancy, which is defined by law as 30 days or more absent in one school year. Less than that is not against the law so we can't go to court over it.  It is also not against the law to perform poorly or be disrespectful in school.  The school board can't write the laws, that's the geniuses up in Columbus.
 
I can't speak to your relatives' situation, other than to say it was obviously many years ago if the kid was sent to Garfield.
 
Im just saying that until parents get involved there won't be meaningful change no matter how many levies we pass sorry.


Posted By: silver bells
Date Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 5:13pm

Ms. Andrew, it is a given that we have teachers who, even under superior conditions, would still be poor disciplinarians or have low expectations (often they go hand in hand). However, rather than addressing this through mentoring or, failing success at that, encouraging these teachers to move on, our past leadership has ENABLED these types and demoralized others, causing some to give up, both with discipline and expectations. It’s hard to know who fits into which peg until we have leadership that demonstrates utter commitment to raising expectations. Then no one can blame the leadership, can they?

I wasn’t a fly on the wall, but I did get a tingle up my leg when you said a main topic at your retreat was high expectations and academic rigor. Ms. Andrew, there is so much excellent information out there about how to create such a culture that I could flood this response with links and not even begin to scratch the surface. The good news is that they all share a commonality, because you’re talking about human nature, after all. You can easily google “how achieve high expectations education” or words to that effect and get great results. Here are a few that start the ball rolling. I hope you will find them useful.

http://www.greaterexpectations.org/briefing_papers/ImproveStudentLearning.html - Note the critical difference between standards and expectations in this article:

http://www.teachersmind.com/Standards.html - And this video reminds us to START EARLY, because it becomes harder every year after:

http://www.edutopia.org/high-expectations-elementary-assessment-video - Also, any teacher’s high expectations of students will be sabotaged in a system that enables and conditions its students to be low or non-performers, as has been the case in the MCSD. You will NEVER convince 100% of those in your district to raise their expectations for all, but you CAN get the majority to buy in (and 70% puts you in the winner’s corner) through philosophy, training, support and commitment. It then becomes uncomfortable for those not willing to come on board to continue in that district, especially when administrators visit and mentor them individually rather than dodging that responsibility by yelling at the faculty as a whole for the actions of those few.

Unfortunately, despite past rhetoric and touchy feely popcorn projects, MCSD administration (district and individual buildings) has NOT been supporting or insisting on teachers having high expectations. Rather, dumbing down to create a sham education and false passing have been the order of the day in the 2000s. Proof?  Compare our students’ school grades with their standardized testing scores, state and especially national.

If you have been a teacher in the MCSD with high expectations (academics, behavior, dress) for your students, you would most likely be heavily discouraged or punished and told to “overlook” consistent violations (always at a cost to you and your other students) and to remember the “backgrounds many of them come from.” If any teachers are reading this post and have had a different experience, I would love to hear about it!

 

 




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