Engineering - Middletown Cemetery Board

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Middletown Cemetery Board

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: Engineering
Forum Description: City Engineering Department
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3967
Printed Date: Nov 21 2024 at 8:49pm

Topic: Middletown Cemetery Board

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Subject: Middletown Cemetery Board
Date Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 10:27am

At the conclusion of the last Middletown Cemetery Board Meeting, the members were going to visit the cemetery to discuss the layout and problems with the driveways at the cemetery. However after the removal vote of Mr. McNeil as chairman the visit was canceled so this topic will be discussed at the next board meeting.

Over the past 6 years I have request numerous times that the trees in the East fence line (CSX side) be removed and the fence be repaired. I was told by the City that they didn’t know where their lot line was located therefore they didn't know who owned the trees that needed to be removed. They would need to contact CSX and get them to clear the lot line. This is also the same story that I have heard about the repair of the South fence line…..However….upstairs in the Engineer’s Office is a complete survey of the cemetery.

At the next cemetery meeting the board is going to discuss a possible new layout for the driveways at the cemetery and maybe the removal of some driveways so less gravel would be needed and therefore reduce the cost of maintenance at the cemetery.

However I do have a few questions and concerns about this project.
If you reduce the enter driveways it will cause an undue hardship on the families wanting to place flowers on the grave sites because the section will be so large.
I’m also not sure since the cemetery was declared historic that you can change the current driveways….you will need to get a ruling on this matter.
How can you layout or even repair the driveways when you DO NOT know where the corner pins are for each and every section of this cemetery so therefore you DO NOT know where the driveways SHOULD BE.
It is my humble opinion that the entire cemetery needs to be surveyed and marked before any of these projects can move foreword.
If you want to protect the two problem areas you could put a metal post in the ground and paint it bright orange to stop the cars from running over the tombstones until you can solve the survey problem.

Several years ago I got a quote on gravel for the current driveways and I believe the quote was about $18,000. Is the City going to be footing the bill for this improvement?

Replies:

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 06 2011 at 8:34am

July7, 2011
Wednesday

Middletown Cemetery Board

I have had a few heated discussions within the last week concerning the Gunckle Family Plot at the Middletown Cemetery located at the end of the main driveway.

If you look at this photo you will see that it is not only Ida Vail Gunckle’s tombstone that has been damaged but those of her entire family seem to have been damaged in a similar manner.

You must find the section corner pin before you can solve this problem.

Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Jul 06 2011 at 9:00am

So in that picture the stone that is being run over as part of the driveway is someone's headstone? Wow, that's nuts.

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 06 2011 at 10:31am

Middletownscouter

Yes that's correct.
It looks like all of these stones may have been run over at some point in time. Maybe in the winter when snow was on the ground and they couldn't see the stones.
The records show that Ida Vail Gunckle is buried in the corner 1st lot and her husband Charles F Gunckle is buried buried beside her in the 2nd lot.

Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jul 06 2011 at 4:30pm

So where exactly would this Corner Pin or Corner Lot Marker be located, because I am surprised that after all the time you spent in the cemetery it has not been uncovered or located by you or someone else in the city.

Does anyone have an old map of the cemetery that might show how that driveway looked, or was there even a driveway there to begin with.

So why can't the corner be squared off and a marker or stake put there?

I do not think that the roadways can be widened or roads blocked off that is just crazy.

Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 06 2011 at 5:58pm

Summerrain1957 wrote:

So where exactly would this Corner Pin or Corner Lot Marker be located, because I am surprised that after all the time you spent in the cemetery it has not been uncovered or located by you or someone else in the city.

Does anyone have an old map of the cemetery that might show how that driveway looked, or was there even a driveway there to begin with.

So why can't the corner be squared off and a marker or stake put there?

I do not think that the roadways can be widened or roads blocked off that is just crazy.

There probaly is a map but are "SPINELESS" ones would just be more confused.

....I wrote them a email yesterday asking if they could explain to me why the tarps was taken down and why they wasnt replaced?Sooner or later we will get more rain.But again just shows you are "SPINELESS" ones could care less.

Whats it going to take for them to get that the people of Middletucky just dont believe in them anymore?

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 8:28am

So where exactly would this Corner Pin or Corner Lot Marker be located, because

Summerrain - The iron corner marker was placed in each corner of this section when it was surveyed and can be located with a metal dectector by the city. If not then they will need to resurvey the area.
I am surprised that after all the time you spent in the cemetery it has not been uncovered or located by you or someone else in the city.
The marking of the roads and sections can only be done by the City. Not my job.

    Does anyone have an old map of the cemetery that might show how that driveway looked, or was there even a driveway there to begin with.
The City has all the survey maps at the Engeneer's Office to solve this problem.
    So why can't the corner be squared off and a marker or stake put there?
That is the same question that I have been asking.....You will need to restrick all the large City trucks from using this corner. They will need to use nothing larger than a pick up truck.
    I do not think that the roadways can be widened or roads blocked off that is just crazy.
You must find the corner markers in order the find out where the drives are located. The drives in the cemetery are different widths. I believe the main driveway is 16' and the short driveway in front of the vault is 30' wide. I believe all this informations is clearly marked on the maps located in the Engineers Office.

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 10:08am

I sent the following email to the Middletown Cemetery Board and the City this morning.

July 7, 2011
Thursday

Middletown Cemetery Board

Re: Middletown Cemetery Gates

Before you start locking the gates again at the cemetery I would suggest that you purchase large reflectors from Tractor Supply and place them on the gates so they will not be damaged again. Reflectors are located on both sides of the gates at Woodside Cemetery

Vivian Moon

Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 10:37am

Who's the chair person ?

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 10:55am

Ground Swat
I haven’t got a clue at this point how this will all play out at the next board meeting. I thought they were going to have a board meeting last night however I was told that the board meetings will be the 2^nd and 4^th Wednesday of each month.

Posted By: Middletown News
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 2:20pm

What a disgrace.

Vivian Moon wrote:

July7, 2011Wednesday <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P>

<?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><ST1:PLACE><ST1:PLACENAME>Middletown</ST1:PLACENAME> <ST1:PLACE>Cemetery</ST1:PLACE></ST1:PLACE> BoardI have had a few heated discussions within the last week concerning the Gunckle Family Plot at the <ST1:PLACE><ST1:PLACENAME>Middletown</ST1:PLACENAME> <ST1:PLACE>Cemetery</ST1:PLACE></ST1:PLACE> located at the end of the main driveway.If you look at this photo you will see that it is not only Ida Vail Gunckle’s tombstone that has been damaged but those of her entire family seem to have been damaged in a similar manner.

You must find the section corner pin before you can solve this problem.

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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 3:10pm

Jonathan
While doing the research for the Middletown Cemetery and trying to understand what had happened over the years I found newspaper articles going back 60 years discussing the unkempt condition and the destruction of tombstones at this cemetery. Several groups have stepped forward to try to improve the condition however these group received no support from the City and the cemetery returned to its former condition.
Why have we allowed this to continue for 60 years as we have spent millions of dollars on other projects?

Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 3:55pm

Does any one have a map etc of the cemetetary or names etc ?

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 5:12pm

Bocephus

Here is the link to the Middletown Cemetery web page.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ohcmiddl/MiddletownCemetery1.htm - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ohcmiddl/MiddletownCemetery1.htm
It contains all the known 7,000 people buried in the cemetery and more than 4,000 photos of their tombstones.
If you need more information on any person you may contact me at
mailto:diggerviv@juno.com - diggerviv@juno.com and I will send you any information that I have in my files

Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 8:07pm

Thanks Ms. Moon, thought meeting was last night also, If you can keep the pictures coming. I still feel that the down line folks at the city do want to do the right thing for this Cemetery but are caught up in the never ending BullSH-T of the second floor at the city building. Yep, markers being driven over at OUR City Cemetery. Maybe the Board can create a sub-com. to study this issue!?

Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 9:48pm

Thanks Vivian...found my grandfathers mom, dad and brother on your list.

Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 07 2011 at 11:24pm

Hear we are suppose to get rain and no tarps are up.We have "IDIOTS" that run this dead town.

Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 12:21am

So, the City of Middletown has $9,900 to DEMOLISH perfectly good street lights on South Main Street, but doesn't have the money to re-install tarps on the 150 year old vault at the HISTORIC Pioneer Cemetery???

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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012

Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 4:12am

Perhaps a petition requesting a replica antique tarp would sway the village council. Their purse strings seem to be easily loosened by that sort of thing.

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 6:38am

The Middletown Cemetery Committee presented a petition of more than 220 names requesting the restoration of the cemetery and vault and the City Council did’t say a word.

Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 7:08am

Vivian Moon wrote:

The Middletown Cemetery Committee presented a petition of more than 220 names requesting the restoration of the cemetery and vault and the City Council did’t say a word.

My dear Ms. Moon,

Pardon me for being unclear. In this case, the Council will require a petition with the signatures of a minimum of 60% of the residents of the plots abutting the vault.

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 7:37am

Ahhh Richard you are really on a role this morning

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 8:18am

Bocephus
Did you find the information that you needed on my web site for the Middletown Cemetery?

Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 11:01am

Vivian Moon wrote:

Bocephus
Did you find the information that you needed on my web site for the Middletown Cemetery?

Thanks Vivian I got the link haven't had much time to look at it yet until a little later ,I will let you know thanks again.

Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 11:27am

Richard Saunders wrote:

Perhaps a petition requesting a replica antique tarp would sway the village council. Their purse strings seem to be easily loosened by that sort of thing.

MR.Saunders maybe you can ask one of your "Spineless" buddies why they didnt take the tarps and labor to put back up on the vault?Wouldnt have cost them a thing but there comeant to me was "WE HAVE IT HANDLED."They havent had anything handled for years.They all need to just go away.

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 2:24pm

Well since my last posting of photos it seems that we have two more groundhog holes at the cemetery and now the fence between the cemetery and Denny Lumber has been damaged.
This story just never seems to end

Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 2:51pm

Employee at Denny lumber Ms. V they aren't very happy about it either. They'll step up for repairs.

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 2:52pm

Ground Swat
When I went to the cemetery the other day I also noticed that the crabapple tree in the 25’ East Addition Circle had been cut down. This is the same area that the City removed 3 Kim Lilacs and 4 pink Spiera shrubs in the fall of 2009

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 3:15pm

Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 08 2011 at 3:19pm

Please notice that the above document clearly states Pioneer Cemetery Maintenance 2008.
I have been told numerous times over the years that the cemetery was not part of parks department.
If in fact that is true…then how can labor from the parks department be charged off against the cemetery?
Please notice that the majority of these charges are for parks and not the cemetery.

But the one that really caught my eye was the 39 hours for picking up limbs from Storm Ike. AIN"T NO WAY!!....because Fred Wehr of Woodside Cemetery sent 5 men to the cemetery for 3 days to cut up all the downed trees..
Yep I got lots and lots of pesky little questions.......

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