Monroe Schools
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Schools
Forum Name: Other School Issues
Forum Description: Discuss other issues such as school security, student activities, etc.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3799
Printed Date: Nov 21 2024 at 11:03pm
Topic: Monroe Schools
Posted By: Bill
Subject: Monroe Schools
Date Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 7:00pm
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There is an article in the MJ about Monroe schools getting a lot of Open Enrollment interest from Middletown and Lakota parents. It then ends with: "The district recently made $890,000 in budget cuts that includes eliminating four educational aides, three classroom positions by attrition, one assistant principal, two central office positions and not filling a vacant custodial position.
Athletic Director Dave Bauer agreed to take a salary decrease of 17 percent to $65,308 from $78,684 annually, said Broc Bidlack, Monroe Schools director of personnel and business affairs." ---------------------
Hmm, when's the last time we read about anyone in MCSD giving up ANYTHING!?  |
Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 8:37pm
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I agree Bill. Middletown seems to have two doors to their district. One door marked out is for the school employees that we hear are retiring and occasionally read are leaving the district. It is located on the front of the building for all to see. There also seems to be another door, apparently located behind the building, out of sight and not publicized as much, that is for new hires to the district and for those who we are told are leaving but are really not leaving but have been provided a different job.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Alberico comes to mind with her position recently eliminated and the last I heard she was possibly being rehired in another position. This is the old peanut/shell carnival game of deception isn't it? Could be wrong but I can't remember an announcement from the schools that anyone has taken a salary decrease like the AD did in Monroe. The schools are operated like the city. Fat, bloated salaries/bennies/ retirements eat up most of the budget money and, like the city, the people don't get much for their money. The schools performance is as pathetic as the city governments performance and we're paying top dollar for this crap. Frustrating. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:55pm
| Vet - I asked someone I went to high school with about some of the issues you bring up here. He told me a few things and also told me that he relocated from the area because of the deteriorating quality of education. He said that the MCSD has the highest overhead adminstrative costs in the state. He also said that gross mismanagement is what caused Monroe to split off into their own district and that it was the first time it had ever happened in the state of Ohio. He also was of the opinion that the death knell for Middletown was when Armco first moved it HQ out of town. You and he seem to bear each other out that the decline started in the mid 80's and has continued now for over 25 years.It also doesn't seem like much is changing over at the Board of Education. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 2:27pm
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All Middletown City Schools employees, including administrators, have been on a pay freeze this year. The contracts expire June 30th and are currently under negotiation. We have to negotiate despite SB5 because that bill won't take effect until after the referendum in November (if then).
MCSD is making over $5 million in reductions to its budget for next year. This includes closing school building and repurposing another to be a 6th grade center. It also includes RIFs. So far, about 30 administrators and support personnel have received RIF notices. The administrative positions cut include 2 directors (Debbie Alberico, the district communications director, and Gary Canterbury, the technology director). Their positions will not be filled and they are not being re-hired in other positions. That is an empty rumor that has no basis in fact. Both of these directors performed important jobs whose work still needs to be done, but it will be re-allocated to other central office employees, who will all have to do more. Other positions cut include a principal, at least 4 assistant principals, a number of secretaries and others that support the delivery of instruction. These cuts will be felt, but we have tried to keep the impact on students as small as possible.
There is quite a bit of information about these budget issues on the district website and in the Journal and all our meetings are aired multiple times on TV Middletown. I have no problem with people criticizing the schools but at least make an effort to inform yourself.
Tony B, you say it doesn't seem like much is changing. Well, let's see...we have a new Superintendent, who has been with us for just a year. New CEO seems like change to me. Last school year, 2 additional elementary schools moved up to a rating of Effective on the state report card, joining Miller Ridge, which was already Effective. So now, 3 out of 8 elementary schools are Effective. Seems like change to me. No one on the school board or the central office thinks that is good enough, but we have to start somewhere. Other buildings moved up a rank as well. The buildings that improved their score did not happen by chance. It is the result of an intense focus on improving the level of instruction and targeting the extra help that is provided to the many students who need it. The teachers and other staff are working very hard and provide a good education to students who meet them half way with a little effort.
"he said that MCSD has the highest overhead administrative costs in the state" -- I believe this is false, but will consider any citation you can provide. 2 or 3 years ago we requested an audit of our personnel costs, including administrative, from the state of ohio. The results said that overall we were in line with other similar districts, although we had more of some positions and fewer of some others. That is what local control is about. Each district decides what is right for their student population. There is no formula (x number of special ed teachers per 1000 students, y number of secretaries, etc) that is right for all communities.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 2:46pm
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Ms Andrew - thank you for your post. I re-read the post from my friend and his statement was that admin overhead had consistently been among the highest in Ohio. He did not provide figures and since I had asked him for his impressions about the district, so I provisionally stand corrected about the "highest in the state' admin overhead. As to changing; different faces doesn't necessarily mean change. I received my public education from the MCSD (1976, Monroe High) and while I'll admit that 3 out of 8 is better than 1 out of 8, by any stretch of the imagination or grading, that would still be an "F". I would hope that no one considered that "good enough". I for one have little faith in testing as a measure of quality education; yes, I know; it's the law. Education is much more than what you learn, it's developing the skills of how to learn so that you can apply those skills throughout your life. I certainly am not implying that I don't think teachers work hard or don't care. Let me ask you then, why are other districts in the area outperforming ours? I would be interested in any insight you could provide and, in your opinion, what we can and should be doing to improve the quality of education provided. I look forward to your reply.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 3:38pm
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"Let me ask you then, why are other districts in the area outperforming ours? I would be interested in any insight you could provide and, in your opinion, what we can and should be doing to improve the quality of education provided. I look forward to your reply".
TonyB, you have just asked THE question that has been asked since the 70's through many different school boards, many different supers, many different school administrations and many different curriculum changes/ teaching methods. Most of us believe we have never received an answer that has really addressed the question. Rather, for years, with many different school people, we have received denial or the standard, canned answers that talked all around the subject, but never hit the target. Don't know if the school folks all these years really don't know the answers or if they are talking all around the subject to keep from indicting themselves with the truth about why this district has suffered through such a long stretch of poor performance. All I know is that this school district is a shadow of it's former self in performance and reputation among the surrounding communities. Sad. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 3:50pm
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
TonyB wrote:Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 4:52pm
| Ture MP. My solution: vouchers giving parents a choice so property tax is applied to the privates, and then the public system becomes competitive. Of course, I know the other rationale its the "composition" of the student, which may be true to some extent. |
Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 4:56pm
| Acclaro, are you talking about a program like the Ohio EdChoice program, but rolling it out on a larger scale with less restrictions? |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 9:37am
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I'm sorry gentlemen, I don't understand why you would advocate taking tax dollars and giving them to people to pay private schools. I do not want to pay money to both a public school system and a private school support where my tax dollar goes into someones pocket as a profit!!! I have nothing against private schools; they are private because they support themselves. This is one of those "economy of scale" moments also, because public education is about trying to educate as many as possible with the resurces made available by the public. Taking resources out of the public system isn't the answer; it's doing our best to ensure the quality of public education. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 9:50am
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oh no, here it comes..... |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 10:03am
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Ms. Andrew states "The administrative positions cut include 2 directors (Debbie Alberico, the district communications director", .......
"Their positions will not be filled and they are not being re-hired in other positions. That is an empty rumor that has no basis in fact. Both of these directors performed important jobs whose work still needs to be done"....... I hope the school district is not done cutting. What about all the assist. principals, assist. to the assistants, etc. The schools are top heavy like the city building is, isn't it Ms. Andrew? With all due respect Ms. Andrew........The fact of the matter is that in the case of Ms. Alberico, as "communications director (a fancy title to a school spokesperson on behalf of the superintendent), we taxpayers received very little from her services for her salary of $98,000 I believe) The fact is that she would be quoted on occasion, offer a quick blurb of what we already knew and retreat back into oblivion until the next standard line from the schools needed to be spoken. Her job could have easily been incorporated into another's job at half the cost. Why do school people want to embellish the importance of some of these positions when they could be incorporated into other jobs and not miss a beat? It's like the President having a spokesperson, drawing a high salary at the taxpayer's expense, fielding questions from the press. Why? Just eliminate the position and march any lying, full of bs politician out in back of the podium and start spewing the horsecrap they are trained to spew. It doesn't matter what they say. We don't believe them anyway. JMO |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 10:25am
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Thanks for you well thought out post Marcia Andrew. I appreciate the clarification of issues. I feel really bad for Debbie and Gary, I know them both personally and they both did a fine job for Middletown Schools.
------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 12:19pm
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Mr. Beagle, thanks for your post. I also feel bad for the 2 individuals who lost their jobs. I can't comment on the job they did and I don't know them but I don't like to see it and I hope they find success in their next ventures. I would like some clarity of issues as well. I see the story about the audit and I applaud the attention to detail that this demonstrates. This is the kind of thing that builds trust with the public which I perceive as somewhat strained. Let me also state for you that I have no personal or professional interest in this. I have read numerous threads on this blog about citizen dissatisfaction and the perceived decline in the quality of education. I've always heard the phrase "the children are our future" since I was a child. The issue to me becomes are we providing the children in our school district the best education we can with the resources provided by the public. As I pointed out above, while 3 of 8 is better, it would be even better to understand why the other 5 schools did not achieve. What did the 3 schools that succeed do that the other 5 did not? Why are children in neighboring districts achieving better results? It's quite true that the same solution doesn't work in all situations, the fact that others are succeeding while we are merely improving upon failure should give some pause. It was state above that we all know the answer as to why we're not succeeding. I don't or I wouldn't be asking. Ms Andrew, I'm making the effort to inform myself, enlighten me to the questions above. I can watch TV and read documents. If the public can understand what the School Board is doing, you might be able to gain more support. If my education has taught me anything it's to have an open mind and listen to all arguments. I've said it before, multiple perspectives lead to a clarity of vision. As a community, how do we get to where we want to get?
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Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 2:19pm
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"Let me ask you then, why are other districts in the area outperforming ours?" Tony B, you ask what seems like a simple question, but I am going to give you a very long response. I am not trying to evade the question; it is just that educating low income urban kids is a very complex problem. If there were an easy answer, MCSD would have done it, and so would the thousands of other similar school districts across the country struggling with the same problem. While some public schools and charters have found success with one building, no one has come up with a model that will work across a whole system, when you have to be successful with EVERY child.
I would also like to state up front that I am speaking only for myself, as a 5.5 year member of the school board and a parent of 3 kids in MCSD schools for the last 11 years. I am not speaking on behalf of the rest of the board or on behalf of MCSD.
First, I don't believe that other districts in the area are actually outperforming MCSD, if we could compare apples to apples. Some people will say it is a cop-out, but the absolute truth is that the single most predictive factor of how kids will perform on standardized tests is their socio-economic background. Generally (of course there are exceptions), if they live in a middle or upper class household, they will tend to score better than if they live in a poor household. The state report card just tells you the total percentage of kids in each grade who pass each test. On like the 5th page, the report tells you the percentage of students in the district who are on free/reduced lunch, the proxy used for economic disadvantage. What it doesn't tell you is the percentage of kids from each income level who passed. Over 70% of MCSD students are economically disadvantaged. None of the surrounding school districts comes even close to this percentage of poor kids.
The closest the state report card comes to some type of comparative score that takes into account where the kids started from is the value added measure, which uses a secret formula (not kidding; it is not disclosed to the school districts) to determine whether the students in a district achieved a year's worth of academic growth in one year, or more or less. 2 years ago, MCSD achieved more than a year's growth overall. Last year it met but did not exceed a year's growth overall (some buildings did exceed). Again, not perfect, we need to repeatedly see more than a year's growth each year to catch up, but if the students who attended MCSD learned a year's worth of academics in a year, I don't think its fair to condemn the schools as terrible, or the worst in the state.
Also, MCSD has a higher percentage of students with special needs than surrounding school districts--almost 20%. These kids are expected by the state to pass the standardized test for their grade level. To earn an indicator, 75% of the students in that grade have to pass the test. This is a hard bar to reach if you start with 20% of the kids off the top struggling to overcome a disability, which may range from dyslexia to ADD to severe mental retardation.
All that said, it is probably true that MCSD was slow to react to the dramatic change in the demographics of its student body, which went from around 40% free/reduced lunch to over 70% in about 5 years in the early 2000's thanks to the city's Section 8 policy and more students leaving the district. (The students who leave are usually the ones who would have scored better on the tests, no matter what district they were in). Kids from poorer homes can learn, but it requires a more intensive effort, and the school is put in the position of having to teach many basics, including behavior, that it didn't used to have to teach. When a child enters kindergarden never having even SEEN a book (no kidding, this happens often), you can appreciate the extra effort it will take to get that child up to grade level.
It is also probably true that MCSD was slow to accept the reality of standardized testing and to change the way instruction was delivered. While I share your view, Tony, that today's standardized tests are a poor measure of academic quality, that is the game mandated by the federal government and if we don't accept the rules, we are going to lose the game. The state has established content standards for each of the tested subjects as to what students are expected to learn in each grade. This may seem obvious, but we have to teach the students all of that content if we expect them to pass the test. We can't let each teacher teach whatever she wants to in her own classroom. We need a centralized effort to align the curriculum to the content of the state standards, and then we need to monitor the teachers to make sure they are staying on track and covering all the material. [Vet: like it or not, this requires administrative personnel, even though you believe them all to be completely unnecessary]. We have a lot of kids that move several times during the school year between different schools, so if a teacher at Amanda is covering the material in a different order than a teacher at Creekview, when that kids moves, he is going to cover fractions 2 or 3 times and never long division. You may not be surprised to learn that many (not all) teachers did not appreciate being told what to teach and when to teach it, and did not appreciate having principals and central office administrators showing up in the classroom to make sure this was happening and to try to suggest alternative ways the teachers could teach the material if the students didn't learn it the first time through. All of this has changed, and the central office is working harder to support the teachers on the front line, but it takes time. The fact that some buildings have improved faster than others is something that is being examined. Why? was it the leadership in the buildings, the staff, the makeup of the student body, or a particular program or initiative? The district has also been slow to teach test taking skills. Some deride this as dumbing down education. But its not fair to the kids to have them take these high-stakes tests and not give them the tools they need. Many kids weren't even told, if you can't finish at least guess. There should be no blank answers. You wouldn't put a basketball team on the court without making sure they knew the rules of the game.
I have written a book here, and could go on and on. I'll stop with the comment that education is not passive. It is not the teachers' job to pour knowledge into an empty vessel. Learning is interactive, and requires active participation from the students. Many (not all) students in our district do not put forth the required effort. I don't know the students in other districts, so I cannot say, but if they are putting forth more effort (due to self motivation, parental involvement, or whatever reason) than Middletown students, then that would account for a difference in results.
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Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 3:32pm
| Thank you for your service Ms. Andrew. Serving on school boards is a difficult task, especially in Middletown. Sadly, through the efforts of the Section 8 slumlords, their ENABLERS on council and city admin (you know who you are), and even the stubborn old time teachers who failed to embrace new ways of teaching, our student population is now comprised of kids with many hurdles in front of them. This doesn't necessarily mean that the district's methods are poor, but it does mean that continued effort is required. unfortunately, we're not Mason or Centerville here and can't pat ourselves on the back for a job well done. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 3:56pm
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Vet, in my first post on this thread, I stated that 4 assistant principals were among those RIF'd. That leaves assistant principals only at the high school (1800 students) and Vail (800 students). There are no "assistants to the assistants"; I don't know what you are talking about. And no, the school district is not top-heavy with administrators. The school district is a large operation with approximately $90 million in revenue from many different funding sources coming in and being spent; approximately 750 employees (full and part-time). Can't run a business that size without some operational people handling purchasing, accounts payable and receivables, compliance with all the state and federal laws, etc., and management and leadership. See my response to Tony for part of the role of central office in aligning teaching methods and substance. You need an HR function. You need buildings & maintenance functions.
Ms. Alberico's salary is more in the range of $65,000, not $98,000. And her job involved far more than giving quotes to the Journal (although she does respond to requests from the media almost every single day). She also is the person who responds to public records requests, is the central point for all questions and complaints from students, parents, community, media, whomever, either finding an answer directly or directing the inquiry to the person with knowledge/responsibility. Multiple requests every day. She writes newsletters and other communications to parents and taxpayers about what is going on with the public schools. She keeps the website current. These are just some of her job responsibilities, there are others. Similarly, someone has to be in charge of technology when you have hardware and software in 12 buildings, internal and external networks. Both operational software and educational software. Doesn't maintain itself.
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Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 3:58pm
| Mr. Barille, thank you for your post. I agree that significant continued effort is required. I did not mean to imply otherwise in my post. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 4:11pm
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Ms. Andrew - Thank you for your post. I appreciate your insight and perspective on this situation. Your comment about socio-economic background as a predictor of standardized test results was something that I had suspected. i agree that it would be more beneficial to the district if the breakdown in test scores by income level. I agree with you that even the most effective teacher can't make a child learn. It is a two way street, desire by the student and an emphasis on education in the home can greatly improve this situation. Something else struck me about how students are "mainstreamed" now. In your opinion, is this a detriment to teaching? I've had comments from others that because you have classes with wide disparities in abilities, it causes the entire process to slow down. Back in my day (God I hate that phrase), classes were separated by abilities so that the needs of individual students didn't impede the progress of others. Somehow, that seems to have been interpreted as discrimination instead of what it is, teaching to the abilities of the student. If a student can't read, there's no reason for him to hold an entire class back. Students learn in different ways and if one method is not having good result another can be employed. That option seems to have been eliminated with the current system. I do find it odd that there are standards for what should be learned. In certain subjects like math, reading or writing I see the logic but in other subjects like history, science and government you get into the opinion problem. Whose version of history, what constitutes science fact from religious dogma are much trickier areas to determine content. I agree that test-taking skills are essential if the success or failure of the entire district rides on these tests. I never have liked the testing idea as the measure of quality education but as you say, you've got to play the hand that's dealt you. I appreciate your time and the information you've shared. This kind of dialogue is essential to inform and educate the public about our school district and the challenges it faces. My hope is that as a community we can overcome the challenges and have a school system that we all pe proud of.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 5:24pm
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Amazing a group of three young black high school students from the inner cities, that had never ridden on a horse before, with just a little bit of nourishment and support, became the Nationa Polo Champions for 2011, earned a $40,000. scholarship to a top prep school, and then the Ivy leagues, when "handicapped" from socioeconomic disadvantage to national champions, through mentoring. Of course, in Middletown, the results are attributed to:
1) Section 8- the parents just don't care and the kids just cannot compete.
2) Poor parents who just don't care.
Brick and mortar does not make for an education, and what a shame those vouchers aren't available yet for privates to be used an an alternative to underperforming publics. The newsletter will be sorely missed. What a struggle we have in Middletown. And just imagine how any potential resident must think about Middletown as a school system from the above. I always was interested to statistically correlate Middletown's 4.0 student and ACT with Oakwood's 4.0 student and ACT score. Swathmore says otherwise as to equal footing on competing.
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Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 5:46pm
| Well like with anything theres multi-levels of issues that need to be seperated and dealt with one at a time which in this "I need it now" world is difficult. Ms. Andrews states, which I agree, you need participation from the student. More importantly you need the parents to help backup the teachers. The general public has very little idea of the "layers" of what can or can't be done to enforce a student to simply attend school and learn. We have allowed the state to take it's eye off the ball of education. I will have to make a choice within the next two years on the school we will send a child to, drop $7500 a year at Fenwick, drive to Monroe or send them to MHS which I've been told and if wrong please correct me had over 250 arrest last year with not one student expelled. This was told to me and backed up by several police officers. Ms. Andrews thank you for taking time to provide the few of use with info. The thread began with a school system cutting cost and a AD taking a pay cut, should our system and it's employees do the same? I would hope not but until the gallery is full during each school board meeting with interested parents and tax payers asking questions and showing up to school to find out whats happening within the school I guess we will continue to chase our on tail. But If in fact I'm correct about the arrest rate why do we continue to allow these so called students back in? Thank you |
Posted By: jsmith2011
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 8:42pm
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Middletown City Schools say they are trimming the budget, making cuts and are not top heavy when it comes to administration.....Look at the MCSD website. 20 years ago, when Middletown and Monroe were a combined district, larger, there were 4 departments in the administration building. Today I counted 8 departments. I understand that a business needs someone to run it but this is ridiculous.
At one time there was a Facilities Department, staffed with one manager and several others who were classified employees. Now there is a Dept. of Business Services staffed with a Business Manager, Manager of Operations, Transportation Coordinator (why wasn't that position cut if Peterman Bus Service is taking over?), an Asst. Supervisor (doesn't say to what) and several others (and there are less buildings now).
In the Dept. of Learning there is a Senior Director (I believe this used to be the Asst. Superintendent until taxpayers complained when they were passing the last levy) so they changed the title of the position and hired someone else. There are 4 Curriculum Coordinators, Data Specialist and a Curriculum Consultant (this position was listed in the Journal in the salaries as $75, 000.00 a year). There is a Data Specialist in the Dept. of Learning and in each elementary school there is a Data Manager. These are former classroom teachers making $75,000.00 or more a year but instead of teaching, they are crunching numbers to make the data look good. So, what does the Data Specialist do? Does this give you some idea of what I'm talking about?
These are 2 of the departments in the administration building, there are 6 more and they all have Directors, Coordinators, Assistants and Specialists.
To add to all of this Middletown has a job opening FOR A NEW POSITION in the administration building for a "Senior Director of Instructional Leaders". This too will turn into its own department and have assistants, coordinators and of course, everyone has their own secretary.
The Department of Student Services has a supervisor, a couple coordinators, attendance officers and 7 secretaries.
A football coach was recently hired. He will be making about $60,000.00 (plus another $20,000.00 in supplementals) to check attendance. A job that was once held by a classified employee. This stems from the last football coach, who I believe wasn't certified to teach high school (is this one?), so they created this position for him and the new coach slid right into it.
You asked about the students at the high school? It's a terrible situation. There is no control, no respect. Students taken out in handcuffs before the day even begins. Some of the students are sent to an area called A+. This is used for some students instead of being suspended or expelled as a way to make up their work. By the way, there are several full time certified staff members in A+ making $70,000.00 a year (or more) with 2 or 3 students in their room at a time.
Recently there were cuts made but they cut the positions of the staff who are there for the students such as the hall monitors in the high school, the aides and the library managers along with other classified positions that are low pay who assist the students. Recently, the headlines in the Journal have been about gang fights at the high school, parents who are suing the district and showing up at the school tossing "holy" water at the students and the hall monitors are cut who are out there with an eye on what's going on. The elementary schools had classified, low paid library managers who ALL lost their jobs. The libraries will be staffed with volunteers. Will the volunteers have background checks? Will they be rated "highly qualified" by the Ohio Dept. of Ed.? No they will not but the library managers were. There were 2 positions cut from the administration building and that is supposed to be something for us to praise the school board about? Give me a break.
You can show up at the board meetings, ask all you want, it's all smoke and mirrors. You will never get the entire truth.
Keep an eye on it all and you will see....Next year they will hire the administrators back and say, "We found a grant to fund that" or "The cuts from the state weren't as bad as we thought".
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 9:01pm
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Ms. Andrew: Thank you for the above post!!! I am in complete agreement with 95% of it, as are probably a host of others that have been perceived as opponents. Even more unfortunately, we have been aware of that information for years and if that would have been the gist of the District’s case for passage of levies, we would’ve been much more supportive. Instead, we were handed garbage such as: “Vote for this levy! Kids can learn in old buildings.” which did nothing but alienate and enrage those of us who knew better and were insulted by such drivel (since we received fine educations in “old buildings”.) The truth always works the best. The truth is your friend!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 9:26pm
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jsmith....as I suspected, Middletown really runs a lean and mean shop huh? I have generations in my family that teach/ taught, and have always been appalled by the supers who double dip, and the enormity of the overhead that has been created, and tenure, as if a school teacher was a doctorate whom wrote 30 books on relativity and was published in scientific magazines. I doubt if you could find a more bloated entity, including federal government, or waste, with the exception of federal contracting for Defense spending.
While appreciating the openness of dialogue by Ms. Andrew, the sad reality is the fact that 70% of the student population is within the band of "poverty". What does that do to getting more students to enroll in the district, increase or decrease? What does that accompanying result do to your property valuation; increase or decrease? And Mr. Presta, from your previous posts a year ago on the levy, who will be making up the difference in the dollars spent per pupil with such facts revealed? The state, the city, or the local property owner? Therein lies the cycle. How is Middletown doing in open enrollment; increasing or decreasing?
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Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 9:34pm
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I agree with Ms. Andrews' assessment of the MCSD performance -- actually it's pretty much common sense and most in town can point to the reasons given for our testing performance. I also agree with her premise that the quality of education may not be that different than other districts, espcially if the student is engaged.
So why does the person posting above talk about sending their child to Fenwick? The same reason many would -- too many reports of the high school resembling a zoo. It's one thing if I know there are many kids in that building who don't care about their education...as long as they're not affecting my kids. But when you allow them to poison the environment with outrageous behavior, threats, blatant disrespect and abuse of staff, drugs, incidents requiring police involvement...well now you're making Fenwick or Mid Christian look mighty attractive.
Ms. Andrews, I agree with your point that many of the students lost in the 2000's were middle class and up and they normally did well on tests. Well, your current regime is not helping matters by allowing Vail and the High School to have reputations for lack of order, accountability, etc. That rep will surely drive more students away.
I'm guessing the answer is cost and legality, but can't Verity be turned into a day care for the troubled students that seem to have a future consisting of at best a McD's hat and at worst either a jail bed or a coffin? If you can thatch your lawn, the remaining grass will flourish.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 10:34pm
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Acclaro,
By being "more supportive" I did not mean to imply that I would have voted for or helped to get levies passed. However, if they would've admitted the real problem, as Ms. Adrew did above, I certainly would have been willing to work towards finding answers. Throwing more money in the directions Price was pointing did nothing.
As with the city as a whole, if you don't face the real problems, you will never solve them. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 11:15pm
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Mike, I did not mean to imply your movement was leaning towards the position of support for levies, but reinforcing your accurate statement with property decline and less tax collection, we al will be on the hook to make up for the short-fall on the past levy, let alone the new ones around the corner, the vicious cycle just doesn't end.
I'd like to think mentoring would help, but the realism in Middletown is, and I say this with sadness and not satire, the city residents and city leadership don't care bout the city, so do you think we could get enough enthusiasm to help uplift the lost souls that cannot even find a job in Middletown? There are none.
Who caused the problem? Well, Monroe was a huge hit, but has prospered. Price was useless and a puppet working on "diversity." The city's culpability? Ms. Andrew points to Section 8. Who brought in all those vouchers? Council. Why? To fill the void in overcapacity in housing stock. The result? Students who flounder, who can't read, have no hope, see no purpose, no direction. Aboust as glim as it is for many college grads right now.
So the solution would:
a) eliminate section 8----paraphrasing Doug Adkins, "steady as she goes", so in 15 years, there will be a reduction
b) mentor program- uplift and nurture students? Gladly would participate, but they have no cash, even afford to get to school at $4.00 gallon? No hope. See military as an option but college isn't even on the radar.
c) Open Enrollment? No, too many getting out of MCSD than coming in, nice schools and all the rhetoric about Project Kal and others, never panned out. Cincinnati State, MUM, free tuition? Won't happen.
d) Vouchers? Sure...all the concerned parents will take the voucher and put Mary and Joey into the catholic system or a private, bye Middletown.
e) No traction, spinning the wheels, stuck on CI?
My answer is e, and that brings the crumbling around us all, from the city's ineptmess to its affect upon the school system,
Others have a solution? Buehler?.......Buehler?
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 7:21am
Ms. Andrew, please see the post from jssmith2011 listed below. If the information he has provided is accurate, please explain as this information is in direct contrast to what you have stated about being top heavy, assistants to the assistants and being a multi-layer system, not to mention the exhorbantant salaries. Could you also address the discipline/behavioral issues mentioned by Bill and others. Perhaps you could tell us why the district didn't develop an alternative program (after being intimidated through the legal system by parents of the thugs and removing corporal punishment) to combat the behavior of the new type of "rogue" student the schools must try to educate nowadays. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 9:06am
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Not to dispute jsmith's version because he sounds like an insider who knows what's going on.....but I've heard that those library positions are a piece of cake. Not disputing they were accredited, etc. but there just wasn't a heck of a lot to do in those jobs when the kids weren't actually in the library. As for all the "Director of this" and "Assis Dir of That", I imagine there a lot more staff required than 20 years when you take into account all the federal and state reporting and testing requirements, not to mention issues with disabled kids, issues regarding modern technology (certainly more of this than 20 years ago), and probably more financial issues to track than 20 years ago. I do wonder, with new buildings and the outsourcing of food service and bussing, why there is a need for all the facilities people. I'm not saying jsmith isn't correct, but I'm guessing the MCSD will claim that they have many burdensome obligations that necessitate these people.
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Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 10:35am
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Dealing with the kids notwithstanding, saying that there is no work to do in a library when kids aren't around is disingenuous. You are in charge of a room full of inventory, many thousands of unique items that are constantly being removed from their proper location and possibly taken off site. They have to be kept in a very specific order to ensure that they can be easily located for future use. Additionally you have new product arriving periodically that has to be categorized and put into the system, marked and filed away properly. And at any given time you need to know exactly what items that belong to the library are currently checked out, who has them and for how long. The logistics alone are a fair bit of work.
Can volunteers be trained to do this work? Sure. As well as the accredited librarians that were doing the job? Nope. The libraries will still operate but at a decreased level of efficiency and effectiveness. My questions, that maybe Mrs. Andrew could respond to since she's been reading and posting in this thread:
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Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 11:10am
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A somewhat related side thought/question regarding Highview and volunteers (not directed specifically to Mrs. Andrew):
Currently the PTO at Highview is trying to empty out the bank accounts completely as the elementary school will no longer be an elementary after this school year. But won't there still be a need for a PTO with Highview as a 6th grade center next year? Seems like instead of spending all the money they should be planning on keeping at least some of it as seed money to roll over to next year. |
Posted By: jsmith2011
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 11:41am
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The "alternative" program for mentoring, etc. has already been tried and failed. Garfield Alternative Education Center opened in the early 90's with a huge grant from the state. It was located down on Yankee because they didn't want the students who were expelled and suspended from the high school to be on the same campus. The school ended up housing drug dealers and criminals. The district decided it was too expensive to run so they closed it and bulldozed the building. This was a building that they sold and bought back.
The A+ program was in that building and moved to the Manchester Building. So the issue of having those expelled and suspended off campus must not be an issue at this time. The school district decided that they needed an "alternative" program for the high school students to pass the OGT so now they opened the Success Academy in the Manchester Building. It has almost the exact same staff that were at Garfield. It wasn't successful once but let's try it again with the same people...... |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 1:56pm
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I appreciate an open and polite dialogue. I started posting on this site a few years ago as a way to share information beyond the standard channels. I will try to answer most everyone's questions, but please be patient as it may take several days. You all have raised a lot of issues and I do have a day job.
RANDY: Is there anyway to change the name of this thread? It's not really about Monroe schools anymore, but I don't want to start a new thread because I'll be answering many posts on this thread.
Tony asked about mainstreaming versus classes separated by abilities. That is a rich topic and one where the experts have shifted their thinking. Now, the "best practice" is to have classes with mixed abilities in grade school and for the most part in 7-12, except for advanced/honors classes. There are pros and cons for either model, and I personally view the issue from both ends, as my 3 kids range from significant cognitive disability to gifted. My oldest spent days bored to tears while the teacher re-taught basics to kids who should not have been placed in advanced math--so there, you did have separation by ability, but not implemented well. If you do segment by ability, you will have a lot of pressure from parents to put their kids in a higher level. The kids all know what the groupings mean, and there is some amount of self-prophesy. If you label a kid as dumb, he will believe he is dumb and can't learn, so why even try? Then, sure enough, he will remain underachieving. I do believe that we need to push ALL students to achieve at the highest level possible, but I am not sure separate classes by ability is the best way to get there.
Federal law does require "mainstreaming," to a certain extent. It is called "full inclusion" now, and what it means is that for students identified with a disability, with an Individual Education Plan ("IEP"), they are entitled to be educated in the least restrictive environment. For most kids, this means being fully included in a classroom with typically developing students, with an aide if necessary/appropriate and various supports. For some students, their needs are so severe or disruptive that they are taught in "self-contained" classrooms of just other kids with IEPs. But, the majority of kids with special needs are included in regular classrooms. Special ed teachers, tutors, speech therapists, etc may work one on one or in small groups with the child part of the day. One of the reasons for this federal rule of inclusion is that research has shown that kids with special needs do better and achieve more if they are placed with typically developing peers. It is also much better for their social and behavioral development.
For the rest of the kids who are not on an IEP, but their abilities vary, the model recommended by educational experts is to differentiate instruction to the different levels in the classroom. Everyone may be learning about the science of rocks (can anyone remember the 3 different types of rock, and how they are formed?), but at different levels of detail and depth and with different expected deliverables to demonstrate they have learned what is being taught. One student may be working on putting a coherent paragraph together, for example, while the brightest kids is challenged with extra research and writing a 3 page paper. Often it requires lots of small group and individual projects coordinated and overseen by the teacher, rather than the teacher lecturing to 25 kids and then having them all complete the same worksheet. Since, as you point out, this is not the way it was done 20 or 30 years ago, learning how to differentiate instruction and do it well is something many experienced teachers had to learn as a new skill. They may have been terrific at teaching to the whole class the old way, but this wouldn't work as well given the realities of the new class composition. Even younger teachers right out of teaching school may not have been taught well how to differentiate their instruction. This is another example of the type of resource that the central office administrators provide (those curriculum coordinators, specialists and consultants mentioned in other posts).
The students who are performing above grade level can be asked to help with some of their peers who are struggling with the concept. This helps the more advanced student internalize what he has learned more concretely when he has to explain it to a classmate, and it builds confidence and leadership skills. It also helps the struggling student, who gets some extra attention, and may pay more attention to a peer than an adult.
Tony, I am not an educational expert, although I have read alot about these issues. There is no black/white answer for what is the right way to group students, but I have tried to explain the current situation.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 3:22pm
 ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 3:26pm
Sorry, but I always was the "class clown"!!!  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 5:20pm
| Acclaro, I agree with you that one of the strategies that has been shown by experience to work is intense one on one mentoring of at-risk, low-performing students. Very hard to duplicate on a large scale without large numbers of adults, either paid school employees or community volunteers. A teacher can make that difference in the life of a few students at a time. Very difficult to make that difference for all 28 students in the class. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 6:02pm
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Ground swat, I don't have numbers in front of me on number of arrests and expulsions at the high school last year. There are a large number of arrests. To some extent, this results from having a police officer ("school resource officer") on site. SRO's are a big help in preventing incidents, but when something happens, like a fight between students, they tend to see it as a crime and make an arrest. That's their job. If there was not an SRO on site, it might be handled by an assistant principal in a different manner, where his job is to ensure the building is run in a safe and orderly manner to facilitate the education of students. Another way to look at the large number of arrests is as proof that violence is not tolerated and action is taken.
I will have to check, but I do not believe that it is true that there were no expulsions, although I can see how the police officers might not know about it if there were. In a serious incident, what usually happens is an immediate suspension with a recommendation for expulsion. Then, there is a hearing because the student is entitled by law to due process. Only after that hearing would the expulsion happen, if the that was the result. But the result of the hearing would not generally be public knowledge and I doubt the arresting officer would be amongst the people told of the decision.
There is a tension between needing to maintain a safe learning environment for all students, and needing to educate all students. Students who are expelled are not learning, and the dropout rate is one of the indicators on the state report card for the district. Students who are suspended are not learning, unless they are sent to the A+ program you (or someone else) referenced which is an in-school suspension. That keeps them away from other students (I think there is even a staggered start and end time for their school day so they are not out in the halls when all the other students are), but they are still learning, in fact they are required to work more intensely than they would in the regular classrooms because of the lower ratio.
When you think about it, expelling a kid is not a very effective form of discipline. You have a kid who does not want to be in school, does not care to learn anything. He/she may already have a history of tardies and truancies and the parent(s) won't or can't change that pattern. So he/she acts out to get thrown out of school. Suspending or expelling that kid gives him/her exactly what they want--no school, no effort. That consequence does not teach the kid not to fight. Rather, it teaches the kids to get into fights as a ticket to getting out of school. For you or me, getting expelled might have triggered consequences at home that would make you never want to do the same thing again. But for many of these kids who are already getting into trouble frequently, their home life or lack there of may actually be part of the problem. For some of these kids, the best thing for them is to spend as little time at home as possible. In-school suspension is a fairly good solution to this tension. So, sometimes what happens is, instead of an expulsion, the student is allowed to return to school but only after agreeing to do certain things that the school otherwise might not have the power to require. (like counseling, or AA, or making restitution, to name just a few examples).
Also, if the student involved is on an IEP, federal law limits the consequences that the school district can impose.
I also believe it is true that a relatively small number of repeat offenders accounts for the vast majority of incidents/arrests. My son has been at the high school for 3 years, at Vail the 2 years before that, and never once felt unsafe or threatened. I think the perception in the community of what the school day is like at the high school is very different than the reality.
So, are there fewer incidents per 100 students at Fenwick or Monroe, or does the media just not report on it as much? Fenwick is private so the media can't force them to disclose discipline records. They don't have an SRO so they wouldn't have an arrest unless the principal called the police to the school, but I doubt that means students never fight. Monroe had that kid last year who raped and robbed a lady. I don't mean to smear those schools, my only point is there is no perfectly safe cocoon to send your kid to school in.
Middletown High is a much larger school than Monroe or Fenwick and as a result can offer many more class options and more extra curricular choices. More AP classes, and MUM is right across the street to take courses for college credit. Middies are in the GMC in Division I, much more competitive level of sports. Another positive of Middletown is its diversity. Approx. 35% African American and mixed race, and the kids seem to get along with and respect kids from other races. In the real world, we have to interact with people from other races and other socio-economic backgrounds, and going to a diverse high school better prepares a kid for that reality.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 7:12pm
Mr. Presta, You only got 2 out of 3 correct here. The answer "Rock and Roll" is incorrect because it is the entire rock and not just a type. The correct answer would have been "Progressive rock"; however, I can understand how you would have missed that one. Being a "Tea Party Republican", you probably couldn't even bring yourself to think, let alone type the word "progressive"!!! lmao
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 7:45pm
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my role model
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Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 8:59pm
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Mr. Presta,
Go stand in the corner and be prepared to stay after school. 66 is not a passing grade.
pn
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 16 2011 at 12:38am
 ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Apr 16 2011 at 5:11am
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Mike,
Why didn't you say so before. You can come out of the corner now. Strategy, mediocrity, "continuous improvement, without expending much effort has become the pattern for the last twenty years. You have learned well. You have earned your diploma. Press on!
pn
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Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 16 2011 at 10:01am
| Ms. Andrews, again thank you for taking the time to address questions that have been asked. Going off the original topic happens quite often on this site but I do believe the intention of most of the posters is to figure out why there is such a large gap in the way the citizens see things happening in this town compared to the Admin. I planned on calling you and our new supt. to discuss our (wife) concerns. I am a grad. from this school system who went off to college, actually got a job in the field I studied in and lived outside of this city for 15 years. When we moved back it didn't take very long to discover that this was a different town and it wasn't all positve. For the last 14 years I have been asked to help give more of my hard earned money towards several different issues dealing with schools,safety and taxes. I truly I have not seen the benefits. The thread began with cuts and pay decreases which I don't really know is needed but I will say I will not vote yes for any other levy's. I see the school system without a doubt being folded into the city governments problems which is not fair but it's the reality that faces this system. The "Haves" supporting the "Have Nots" which is a state and federal problem. I do now understand a little better how the system handles "trouble makers" and yes all schools have this problem but I for one am sick of having to adjust my world around unfit parents and a system that keeps giving third and fourth chances to people who just don't give a damn. Trust me when I call our private school they don't always look forward to what I have to say about efficiency or child behavior. Many times I still wonder what I'm paying for. Thank you again for your response and time. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 16 2011 at 8:03pm
| groundswat - you make an interesting point. The decisions of our city government do have negative effect on the school system and the taxpayers who support both. The economic downturns and inefficient use of resources have put the school system in a position that few other systems face. It looks as if every municipality around us is growing and we are not. We have a disproportionate Section 8 population and property values are declining at an alarming rate. That is a challenge for the city government to solve. Until then, the school system will have to do the best they can. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 17 2011 at 7:01am
| As Mr. Presta put it so well "What a Mess" childern having childern, poeple who have No interest in getting a job because the so called "Haves" take care of them, And one mucked up council about 12 years ago FLOODING our town with section 8 housing. Try to have a conversation with someone in town and 90% of the time the school system gets mentioned along with our local governments issues. Still, there is hope and just like today you wake up eat your problems with toast and go to work to try and make a difference. These issues are nation wide and would take a long day and a 12pack to talk about, I just hope it doesn't rain today! |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 17 2011 at 7:27pm
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JSmith--
I am not going to explain the job function of every non-teacher in the district. I will address the changes and cuts in administration> You are correct, there are currently 8 directors in charge of 8 departments. 2 directors (technology and communications) are being RIF'd and will not be replaced. 1 (Susan Combs, director of student services) is retiring. The new position that you saw advertised will replace her, but will have different functions. Central office will be restructured to have a total of 6 departments. Student services will not be a separate department, but those responsibilities will be covered by others, primarily the dept of learning. (btw, one of the main functions of student services is special ed). So, next school year, there will be 6 directors in charge of 6 depts. it is true that the Sr Dir of Learning was hired to cover the responsibilities of the prior Asst Superintendent, who retired. Lesser title and lower pay range, but the work still needed to be done. Data specialists and data managers are required by -- and paid by -- restricted grant money. They don't "crunch numbers to make the data look good." High stakes testing has led to multiple benchmark tests throughout the year to track how well the students are learning. It makes sense to find out while we can still fix it, what has been learned and what has not. Data managers analyze all the test answers to help teachers figure out what interventions are needed. For example, if 5% of the kids in one 4th grade class missed all the questions about multiplying fractions, the teacher would want to help those few kids with the concept. If 90% missed it, however, the teacher needs to figure out a different way to reteach it to the whole class. If 80% of all 4th graders in the whole school missed multiplying fractions, then perhaps there is a larger issue that needs to be addressed. If the data managers were not doing this work, it would fall on the teachers, who are already being asked to do more than ever before. plus, cutting them wouldn't save any money, as the grant money they are paid with would go away. The football coach is not an attendance "clerk" (there is a clerk and it is an hourly position). His job is not to record tardies and absences, but to actively intervene with the students and their families to solve the problem and get the kids in class. This is an administrative function, and a football coach is ideally suited to provide the level of authority and intimidation often required. The district engaged in a thorough, thoughtful budget process to identifying positions to cut, starting with each department re-examining each position and other opportunities for cost savings. Input was requested and received from teachers, staff and community members to help set priorities. Particular attention was paid to the views of the principals. There was quite a bit of information presented at school board meetings over several months about the budget deficit we are facing and the process we went through to decide how to solve the problem. The following positions have been cut (as of the end of this school year): 2 directors, 4 assistant principals, 1 principal, 1 student facilitator, 1 librarian, 5 library managers, 1 counselor, 4 attendants, 4 custodians, 8 secretaries, 1 print shop and 5 monitors. There will be teacher positions cut, but we are waiting until we know how many teachers take the early retirement option. We are hopeful these will balance out and we won't have to fire any teachers. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 17 2011 at 7:34pm
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Middletown scouter,
As a school board member, I do not micromanage the process of covering the functions of the library managers. I can tell you that you are correct, the plan is to handle this with volunteers. Each building may have a different approach. All volunteers with the potential to have one to one contact with kids must pass a criminal background check. It will not be easy but it is do-able. John 23 has had an all-volunteer library for years. You are also correct about the difficulty of the task we face. Everyone wants us to reduce our expenses, but the minute we suggest cutting a position, someone wants to say, no not them! |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 17 2011 at 8:19pm
| Middletown scouter, each school's PTO is a separate nonprofit organization, and they are independent of the school system so I can't speak for them. But, consider that the money raised by the Highview PTO was raised with the belief and intent that it be spent for the benefit of that K-5 building. Not for the 6th graders of the whole district. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 17 2011 at 8:57pm
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Bill, I agree that the reputations of the high school and middle school are not helping us. We are making some major changes. Putting all 6th graders in a 6th grade center and not with 7th and 8th gives us the opportunity to make some program changes and set new expectations. There will also be changes at the high school.
We could use some help with people not spreading false rumors (like the one about the gun incidents that never occurred). If you or anyone hears about something, please call the school or a board member to find out what really happened or is going on before you start talking about it as the truth. Even posting it online as a question is harmful because so many people believe everything they read and don't distinguish fact and opinion. You and several others addressed alternative ed. It is true that Garfield was closed, because it was not effective at either changing behaviors or graduating those students. We now have in place a range of programs. I discussed the A+ program in another post. That is a response to disciplinary incidents. For more severely disruptive students, we pay for placement in county-run programs. The most violent end up in juvenile detention centers (jail). The Success Academy serves 120 10-12th graders and is housed in the Manchester Building (on the grounds of the high school). It is for kids who are at risk of dropping out either because they have already failed more than one class, or truancy or being disruptive in class. It is not a replacement for Garfield; it is not the same subset of students and it is a different method of instruction. The student has to be willing to put the effort in. Students work through course material with computer programs and have to pass tests to move on to the next unit. Many students work through the classes faster and can then make up credit for courses previously failed, and get back on grade level. Many graduate early. The teachers are there to help with questions, keep them on track, and help deal with all the other issues most of them are facing. Each student is assigned a mentor. There is a work component and the counselors help them plan for the future. This program has been very successful. A typical student would be a teenage mother who otherwise would have dropped out of school and been on welfare. THrough this program, she gets her high school degree and often moves on to MUM or to a technical degree program of some kind. The Freshman Academy is modeled on the Success Academy but is for just 9th graders and intended to ease the transition to high school for the most at risk 8th graders. Some move on to Success Academy while others transition to the regular high school classes. Vet, you imply that the elimination of corporal punishment was a choice by the school district. It was not. The courts have decided that it is illegal. I have posted that information several times here and you keep bringing it up. Suggesting remedies that are illegal and therefore unavailable is simply not helpful. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 17 2011 at 9:50pm
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Ms. Andrew - thanks for your posts here. I have a question about property that the school board might own. I'm thinking specifically of the Roosevelt property and the old Jefferson Elementary property. What plans are there for these properties? |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 12:27am
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"We could use some help with people not spreading false rumors (like the one about the gun incidents that never occurred). If you or anyone hears about something, please call the school or a board member to find out what really happened or is going on before you start talking about it as the truth" If people call the school and or the board will they be told the truth ? Had the truth been told and been reported via the media in some way THERE WOULD BE NO FRIGGIN RUMORS !!! And it's a little late for damage control because Ms. Andrew admitted a threat was made at the school thus the call for extra security and a police presence per her posting on this very forum,but now all of a sudden it's a rumor ?!! Gees,now we know what is wrong with the schools. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 6:43am
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Ms Andrew states...."Vet, you imply that the elimination of corporal punishment was a choice by the school district. It was not. The courts have decided that it is illegal. I have posted that information several times here and you keep bringing it up. Suggesting remedies that are illegal and therefore unavailable is simply not helpful".
My original statement was.... "Perhaps you could tell us why the district didn't develop an alternative program (after being intimidated through the legal system by parents of the thugs and removing corporal punishment) to combat the behavior of the new type of "rogue" student the schools must try to educate nowadays". Perhaps taking a page out of the military methods of motivation of proper behavior would work for a district that has so many behavioral issues. Ever think about contacting the military element for some suggestions? Not necessarily corporal punishment and certainly a "no touch" method to motivate, but amazingly has everyone on the same page and functioning under rules and guidelines. I asked if the schools developed an alternate program to combat the behavior of the "rogue" student and mentioning the removal of corporal punishment, making it clear that I was aware that corporal punishment was bannished. Ms. Andrew, is it not true that at least part of reason why the schools dissolved corporal punishment is because of the potential lawsuits from parents who didn't want the schools touching their little angels, as well as the courts deeming it illegal? |
Posted By: jsmith2011
Date Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 6:47am
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Ms. Andrews--In reply to the libraries:
First of all, Middletown City Schools is NOT John XXIII. That is like comparing apples to oranges. Just because something works or worked there does not mean it will work at MCSD. Beside the background check, won't those volunteers who are in Title 1 buildings need to be "highly qualified" by the Ohio Department of Education in order to work directly with students? I called the ODE and the answer is yes. With No Child Left Behind this became mandatory several years back. I believe that will include most buildings, right? They specifically quoted the following:
"According to NCLB guidelines, an instructional paraprofessional provides one-on-one tutoring; assisting with classroom management, provides computer assistance, provides support in the library or media center; or provides instructional services under the direct supervision of a teacher is considered an instructional paraprofessional and must meet the requirements required. Those qualifications include either two years of higher education or a state assessment (Parapro Assessment). Praxis test given 4 times a year.
This is required if the district is receiving Title 1 Funds. If not done the school district is in violation of state law.
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Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 10:22am
Thank you for the response. I am somewhat confused though. I realize that the school board doesn't micromanage all jobs in the district, but if you are voting on whether or not to approve a change that include eliminating a paid position, wouldn't you want to understand the process behind why that position can be eliminated and how those job duties will be handled effectively going forward? Also, wouldn't the process for ensuring that volunteers managing the library are selected and trained properly be best handled by central administration rather than the individual buildings? You posted earlier about the need to standardize curriculum amongst all the same grade level classrooms around the district to ensure that they are teaching the same things at the same time, why would administration of our school libraries and the tens of thousands of dollars in inventory (or more) not be something that should also be standardized? |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 11:34am
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Middl
DAYTON — The number of tuition vouchers parents could use to move their children from chronically low-performing public schools to private schools would quadruple under Gov. John Kasich’s proposed budget. The state is approaching the mandated 14,000 cap on vouchers, with 13,062 students already enrolled in the program this school year. The number of publicly funded vouchers would expand to 30,000 next year and 60,000 students by 2013 under the governor’s plan. There are 110 students in Middletown City Schools who use private school vouchers to opt out of attending public schools designated as “academic watch” or “academic emergency” for two of the past three years. Of those 110 students, 61 are using the scholarship for the first year and 49 are considered renewals. Four Butler County schools are designated for the EdChoice scholarship program, all of them in Middletown. Those schools are Amanda, Creekview and Rosa Parks elementary schools and Verity Middle School. Five private schools in Butler County are registered to participate in the program. There are two such schools in Middletown — John XXIII, a Catholic elementary school serving preschool through eighth grade, and Middletown Christian Schools, a ministry of Grace Baptist Church serving preschool through high school. State lawmakers have spent recent weeks hearing testimony on two separate bills that would expand the program in Ohio, including the governor’s budget proposal that would raise the number to 60,000 available vouchers by 2013. House Bill 136, introduced in March, would create two new statewide voucher programs — one for K-12 students that would replace the EdChoice and Cleveland scholarship programs, and another for special education students. “We’re not opposed to choice, but we do believe private schools should not be paid for with public money,” said Damon Asbury, director of legislative services for the Ohio School Boards Association in Columbus. “We believe the focus of the General Assembly’s attention should be on children in the public school system of Ohio,” Asbury said. But Chad Aldis, executive director of School Choice Ohio, disagrees. “The dollars we spend on education are to educate the kids,” he said. “Our position is the money should follow the child to where the parents believe they can get the best education.”
Staff Writer Eric Schwartzberg contributed to this report. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 1:46pm
| Tony B, the school district has no present plans for those properties, due to state of the real estate market. If you want to make an offer, contact Milt Thompson, business manager. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 1:53pm
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Vet, thanks for the suggestion, but we will not be turning the public schools into a military academy anytime soon. A couple reasons why what works for the military is not appropriate for MCSD:
1. The military deals with adults; MCSD deals with 5 - 18 year olds.
2. The military is molding soldiers to follow orders quickly and without hesitation or question, to prepare them for battle. The schools are teaching children to learn a base of fundamental knowledge and also how to reason and analyze, to prepare them for college and/or the work force.
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Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 1:58pm
| JSmith, since you are so knowledgeable about public school libraries, maybe you should volunteer to help the district devise a plan for managing the school libraries with volunteers. Or, if federal law does in fact require college education to help a child pick a book, the classroom teachers could supervise their own students while they are in the library. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 2:02pm
| Ms Andrew, thank you for the info; I have no interest in the properties other than curiousity about future plans by the School Board. Unless, of course, you're willing to part with them for a dollar!!! lol |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 2:09pm
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Middletown scouter,
The school board hires, evaluates and fires the Superintendent, and the Treasurer, and sets policy goals and direction for the district. Implementation of policy and operation of the district is the responsibility of the Superintendent and the Treasurer and the employees they hire.
We gave the Superintendent direction to balance the budget without a new levy. He engaged in the extensive budget process I have previously described, and brought back to us a recommendation to cut over $5 million, with a broad outline of how those savings would be achieved. We approved his plan. Specific positions to be RIF'd came back to us for a vote. As to library managers, the general answer was the district planned to manage the libraries with volunteers and potentially high school business students. We approved the RIFs and left it to the Superintendent and his staff to work out the details. He wants to include others in the decision as to how specifically it will work, including principals. It may or may not be handled the same in all buildings. Some may have a stronger volunteer base to help than others. I take your point about uniformity, but this is not really the same as fourth grade math, is it? there is not a state standard curriculum for library, nor is there a state test.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 2:20pm
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You bet, Ms. Andrew, you wouldn't want to make the Midd. schools into military academies which are role models for behavior/discipline/academics/character building, organization/ living by rules and following directions, now would you? All that discipline and rule following would be a bad thing for the Midd. students to learn, now wouldn't it? C'mon Ms. Andrew....you know as well as I do that most of your chronic and more serious discipline issues occur in the older student populations. Obviously you can't come down on a 3rd grader as hard as you would a junior or senior in high school. Gotta use logic here. The military methods would obviously be too harsh for the younger students, but would apply to the high school problem students in the 17 to 18 age range. They are, after all, closer to military eligibility age, aren't they? They're not angels to be protected and to be cottled are they?
2. Thank you for reminding me what the military was all about. Never knew what occured in the military. Guess you did with your extensive background going through basic and all.  Following orders quickly and without hestitation can occur on the job and in civilian life also, Ms. Andrew. Doesn't always have to be a "battle" scenario to get people to know the rules and to follow orders. The schools are teaching the children to learn a "base fundamental knowledge" and "how to reason and analyze". True.....they better also be telling them what to expect about proper behavior in the workplace and in society along with their parents. Can't just pour book knowledge into them. Gotta teach them the other side of the coin as to proper conduct to succeed in life also. Mold the total person, Ms. Andrew, mold the total person.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 2:45pm
| Vet, MCSD sadly, is NOT Phillips Academy Andover, where I attended. My father didn't mind his all male education at Wabash. Take note: EdChoice had only schools in Middletown in the entire Butler Cty, participating in the voucher program. I'd definately recommend John XXIII, maybe not quite as strong as when Sister Namcy was there, but still a good prep. Ohio school systems don't focus upon the individual, they focus upon the school rating. Any teacher in the system will openly tell you the number 1 priority is elevating the annual scorecard, the grades, the person as a whole, not even a distant 3rd in prioritzation. With 4 times the vouchers by Kasisch, will that correlate to > 400 students leaving MCSD for JXXIII, others? Probably. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 20 2011 at 6:55am
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acclaro, if there was any school system that needed orderly structure, hard-nosed discipline and a crack down on behavior, it's the Middletown schools, IMO. Because of the sterotypical element that we got when council decided to open the floodgates to low income, Section 8, inundating this town and overwhelming the schools by literally dumping major behavioral issues on the schools, it is an even greater urgency that the schools do anything and everything within the current guidelines, to control the disruptors. The lack of control in the schools by the authorities has festered for too many years and we see the students reacting to the current rules as a joke. There is absolutely no intimidation in the current program whatsoever. In-school suspensions, expulsions, parent/student meetings and counseling.....all proven to be worthless and in-effective or the same behavior would not have continued. It should be somewhere between no nonsense/serious and hell. Instead,it's like candyland.
Time to get tough while listening to the parents of the troublemakers whine and cry about how their little angels are being treated. Too bad people. Time to start using the law hauling parents into court, slapping some wallet-hurting fines on the parents, jailing them and taking the kid down to jail for some "tough love" exercises. Time to get military on these people with no forgiveness. Time to start intimidating the problem children again and reverse the current "it's a joke, what do they think they can do to me" attitude. How did we get to the place where the children are intimidating the adults? What in the he-- happened? |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 20 2011 at 7:16pm
| Ms. Andrews- Cold day out there, came home to veggy soup and got warmed up by your post. Don't worry, love my wife but your interest in this site is quite fascinating to me. Stay the course, leaders are hard to find these days. |
Posted By: jsmith2011
Date Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 2:51pm
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Ms. Andrews I never pretended to be "knowledgeable" about public school libraries. All I did was visit an elementary school library in our school district and then make a call to the Ohio Department of Education when I found out that the current library managers were required to have an Aide Certificate from the State that includes a background check and be rated highly qualified by taking a state mandated test.
You "do not have to have a college degree" to check out a book. You DO have to be highly qualified AND under the supervision of a certified staff member (as is currently done in the school district) to interact with students in the library setting. So, the idea to have classroom teachers supervise their students in the library is already required along with the state requirements. Makes me wonder if the board made this decision without knowing all the facts. I asked the principal in the school I visited what will happen if they cannot find volunteers who fit the criteria that is required by the State of Ohio (because you can be sure parents are going to ask if these volunteers have fulfilled ALL the requirements) and I was told by the principal, "if it doesn't work out then the libraries will be closed". Which leads me to another question....Several years ago I remember there was an issue about volunteers in the buildings needing to pass a background check BEFORE they were allowed to tutor or help in any capacity that involved interacting with students in the school district. Why wasn't that followed thru? I asked a volunteer who was in the building I visited if they had to do that and they laughed and said no and that they were in the building quite frequently but that had never been mentioned. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 6:27pm
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JSmith,
I do not believe that the "highly qualified" requirements for employees are applicable to volunteers. If your point is that volunteers will not be as qualified as volunteers, I would have to agree, but also don't think that means they couldn't effectively staff the school libraries. If your point is that because volunteers may not have the same qualifications as the former library managers, that they are prohibited from helping in the libraries, I don't think this is correct.
My understanding of the laws on background checks for volunteers is that they are required if the volunteer will be having one-on-one interaction with a student -- and MCSD does require these be done. We actually have some donors who have picked up the cost of the background checks for those volunteers who can't afford them. One-on-one means a situation where an adult would be alone in a room with 1 child. "Interacting" with a child, for example by helping that child choose a book or check it out, while there are other children and/or adults in the same room, does not require a background check.
Criminal background checks are not required by law for other volunteers. We want to encourage more adults to volunteer in the schools, not discourage them. If we required a criminal background check of every mom, dad or grandma who wants to help out in the schools or the PTOs, we would have many fewer volunteers. However, in most situations there is oversight of volunteers by teachers or other adults, and common sense prevails.
I have tried to explain how the board made its decision, and why we don't always ask for the level of detail you are suggesting we should have asked for. I and my fellow board members do the best we can, and recognize that not everyone will agree with everything we do (and, conversely, that no matter what we do, at least some people will disagree with it). All I can say is, if you think that you can do a better job, run for the board this fall. Just get your flak jacket out.
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Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 6:33pm
| Ground swat, thank you for your post. I have to say that a number of people have told me I am crazy to post on this blog under my real name. I just feel that most people do not know the depth and complexity of the issues the schools face, and that if they knew more they might understand better. I'm not expecting to convert people to my point of view. |