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Trotwood 
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Jul 22 2013 Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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 Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 5:23pm |
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Thanks, that makes sense. Right now I doubt the student population could support it, but once you threw out the 10k number, that's what got my attention. And given the info on the Confucius Institute thread that stated a number of Chinese students are required to start by taking classes at the branch campus, I was thinking that would be an easy cash cow market. Would it be possible for the city to try and recruit this company to convert a building into housing or build new on a surface lot? I'm not sure how much you follow Dayton News, but this was the company that almost put in housing by Sinclair. For all I know, their effort might be continuing, but the site they chose had some restrictive deed covenants that could not be transferred and that caused the plan to fall through. Honestly the biggest disappointment in the past couple years for Dayton, but the amount of excitement around the idea from both students and the community alike was overwhelming.
That was big news, if it actually happens it should help everywhere in the area land a lot more investment. One correction though - the Cin-Day metro (or "Daytonnati" as I like to call it) would be the 18th largest in the US, not the 10th. If somehow we could snag Columbus in the mix (won't happen for 50+ years at least given current development patterns) then we would easily be in the Top 10. |
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Trotwood
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 22 2013 Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 5:30pm |
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I don't think anyone can possibly debate that these two goals are somehow dependent on one another. Middletown's paltry 45k population is peanuts when compared to the region. So yes, it can most certainly happen both ways. Middletown can be one simple city of 28k people in a metroplex of 3+ million. And this will happen is depopulation is actively sought (which why exactly is depopulation sought?) and other communities like Monroe, Springboro, etc. continue to grow.
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Factguy
MUSA Resident
Joined: Dec 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 5:45pm |
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One area I have actively been pushing downtown, is for the city to give an income tax credit for zero local tax owed, to those working in West Chester, Liberty Township, and Mason, while living in Middletown. The city must raise wage earners residing in the city, and not rely on attracting more tax revenue from those working in the city.
If you examine property tax, almost 60% or greater, goes to support the school district, and a minority portion to the city. In part, that is the basis for the city giving much property away downtown, as property tax has more limited impact upon Middletown. However, the balance between high wage earners living in Middletown and those earning a high income, must increase. The tide is lowering, not rising. If this succesfully occurs, and with the intersection of the large metro in Middletown, the balance of the right demographic with high income jobs is at an optimal equilibrium. Without making a change to the income tax credit, and accompanying ability to attract those in Mason, Liberty Township, and West Chester, in my opinion, Middletown will see more higher income wage earners leave, to take advantage of the lower tax. If you work in West Chester at AKS and pay 0 tax local, why would you want to pay .175 to Middletown annually? Hopefully, this will come about in the coming years, with additional ordinance changes.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 5:50pm |
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u obviously don't still live here or get around diversely, because a lot of your thinking is far off-from reality here. Maybe you don't have enough experience in dealing with decades of local government and our changing demographics--lacking understanding of why a lot of things have happened as they have. Youth is often wasted on the young lol |
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Factguy
MUSA Resident
Joined: Dec 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 6:02pm |
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Trotwood, one of the biggest mistakes ever made in Ohio was to kill the metro rail system linking Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland. If that had passed, the combination of Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati would have created a mass metro, which you are correct on size. Think of ease of commuting from work at the midpoint, while working north or south destinations. This is the reason we hear so much about regionalization and cooperation. Regionalism translates to successful metro. Metro brands 'big market.' Market values would rise, greater tax collected, lower consumer costs, Comcast, others, move in, drive costs down. Presently, ATT digital tv, Verizon DSL, many others, don't serve Middletown.
Hamilton has made great strategic moves with his services for water, electricity, and natural gas. Convert your car to natural gas, and fill up at cty pump for 1.99 gal. There are many good things in the region incubator.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 6:08pm |
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TRYING TO CLEAN THIS UP LEGIBLY: spiderjohn]such extreme viewpoints -------------------------------------------------- Where? What points specifically? Mine or others? Uhhh..on this message board---yours and those of others -----------------------------------------------------------
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Trotwood
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 22 2013 Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 9:50pm |
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I remember the proposal well. It is amazing that they killed it off, especially given the fact that the federal government was paying for most all of it (if not all of it... I can't remember the exact details offhand). I know I would have used the line a lot if it were in place. It would be wonderful to be able to park at the Transportation Center Garage or at the Air Force Museum and take the train down to Cincinnati on Reds and Bengals game days, or even just to see the city in general. A similar proposal is running now for expanded service on the Chicago-Cincinnati Amtrak line, with possible stops in Oxford and Hamilton. Being an MU-Oxford student, I can ascertain that a significant portion of the student population is from Chicago and is carless. This would be a great way for them to get home, or even just visit the city in general (college kids do occasionally go for weekends in Chicago). Same would be great for UC, Purdue, IUPUI, and other students on the line, as well as Honda Greensburg employees that live in Indianapolis, businessmen (like consultants) travelling from firms in Chicago to Cincinnati and vice-versa, etc. It's still a stretch, but with some good luck it might happen. Factguy, I think there are a couple of other online communities out there that you would enjoy or at least should keep an eye on. I'll private message you info on them since I don't want to advertise competing discussions here. Also good to know about Hamilton and the CNG fueling station. I know Honda has a CNG version of the Civic that they mass produce now, and I'm assuming some other automakers might have CNG cars as well.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 9:58pm |
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sj, your post reminded me that I believe I read an earlier one associated with what was estimated to be an approximate $250 Kk the city spent on the Section 8 section system that one may have assumed was sold or gifted to the cty when they took over the HUD administration. While I don't have issues with the ordinance, although I doubt if it will have meaningful impact, I was struck by a thought the basis for the ordinance may be to salvage the roughly quarter million dollar software investment the city made to tie bad deeds/ crimes, to landlords and tenants to purge the number of vouchers, which now is used to hall monitor landlords and tenants as it was used before. If I recall, wasn't it also linked to the water department, because if one was on section 8 and missed a water payment, that automatically disqualified an 8 eligible/ recipient of section 8?
Putting it simply----isn't is plausible the ordinance is really a means of salvaging an investment of nearly $.25 Mm in software costs that went down the drain when Section 8 admin was transferred to B Cty? Thinking out loud, but believe this is a key driver for the ordinance. Saving the software expense and investment more than anything IMO.
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Trotwood
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 22 2013 Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 10:20pm |
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Five years ago it would have been extremist, sure. But now there are a lot of market trends and consumer demand changes toward urban living that weren't happening before. Most of these trends were ones which were prevalent virtually everywhere else in the US for many years prior. Here's a few articles about it: Middletown has an inherent advantage over Monroe, Lebanon, West Chester, etc. because it has an urban core, urban housing, and at least has the bones to allow an urban lifestyle. The key will be installing the right amenities to make it happen and cleaning up the town enough to make it a place where people want to spend time outside. Look at Dayton. A lot of its recent success has been built around the rivers, the bike trails, the ball park, and the breweries with their big patios. In other words, its success has been about great community-fostering outdoor spaces. Middletown can have that happen too.
Which is more than I have done, admittedly, so I can't talk here. ----------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I probably should have phrased that better. I assumed when you made your prior statement that "who you talked to" were basically the same people you talk to here. But glad to hear that is not the case. Reading this board, I get a strong impression that most every regular member is white, male, and over the age of 50, with a few notable exceptions like Vivian Moon, which, if I had to guess, is white, female, and over the age of 50. Again, I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I assume this is the truth - the general demographics of message boards of this nature point to my assumptions being correct.
I would assume youth is always wasted on the young haha. Just because a fish is there today doesn't mean it will be there tomorrow. Things change. Fast at times, slow at other times, and occasionally not at all. Would any of you have guessed Middletown would be what it is today 40 years ago? Probably not. You may know a lot about this one specific town, this five mile square block, but I for a hobby study development, what makes it a success, and what does not. I have looked at developments far into the past (like City Centre) and ones much more recent. There are a few key things that need to be done to get Middletown moving in the right direction with success from certain demographics of new residents, and so far the city is making good strides towards putting that infrastructure in place. Sure, there have been a lot of missteps. No one is arguing there. What can be said is that the city is now pursuing solutions that have been implemented successfully for decades in other cities, both near and far. I don't know if I can make you understand exactly what has been proven both by academics and industry alike to make a city better, but I can at least point you in the right direction. If you are really passionate about shooting down solutions that waste money and supporting those taht encourage positive sustainable development, follow these news sources. Note that most of these are not radical sites by any stretch of the imagination. They are business focused, conservative, and progressive all at the same time. They fight for the best solutions. And it is hard to be much more conservative than supporting solutions that use what already exists. So please, just give it a shot. The '70's aren't coming back, nor should they. But a better day can come.
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Dean
MUSA Resident
Joined: Apr 15 2014 Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2015 at 10:23pm |
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Trotwood, you make many good points. Early in my career, I taught at U of C at Booth, and had many friends and associates whom lived as far away as Racine, Wisconsin and traveled the train down to downtown Chicago to work, or the many stops along the north shore, Arlington Heights, Barrington, and Chicagoland in general. It will be great news for southern Ohio if it becomes an extended metro area with positive impact on many.
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 21 2015 at 6:21am |
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"One area I have actively been pushing downtown, is for the city to give an income tax credit for zero local tax owed, to those working in West Chester, Liberty Township, and Mason, while living in Middletown. The city must raise wage earners residing in the city, and not rely on attracting more tax revenue from those working in the city"
Factguy, we finally agree on something although I have some personal gain from your idea. I work at Wright-Patt, while living in Middletown, and pay no city tax to Fairborn. It all goes to Middletown on April 15th. Would be nice to see a tax credit for zero taxes owed for all out-of-town workers. I like your idea of not bleeding the working taxpayers in Middletown also. Don't see many high end wage earners coming to town. Nothing to offer them as opposed to West Chester or Mason as to amenities nor upscale climate. Also don't see attracting new high earner residents to town either with the current lower wage job selections available. Gonna have to go upscale here or somehow develop a company relocation program that will attract high wage jobs. Don't see that happening here with the current city situation and obsession with downtown development. I am assuming your first line "one area I have been actively pushing downtown......" that you would be Adkins. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Bill
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Apr 21 2015 at 9:52am |
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A goal of 30,000 residents? Will anyone alive today live to see that? And how exactly will this be accomplished? Even if you optimistically assume a run-off of Sec 8 over the years, that might account for a few thousand fewer residents.
And what to do with the thousands of homes that won't be needed with a population of 30k? Look at the time and expense associated with demo-ing a few hundred homes.
And all this talk about the growing Cin-Day metroplex. When you look at the map, the city of limits of Middletown are fairly large. Are we to assume this area will be growing and thriving and yet our large spot on the map will both be prospering and reducing in population at the same time?
Betweem this topic and the "downtown is critical" argument, my head is spinning in confusion.
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Factguy
MUSA Resident
Joined: Dec 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Posted: Apr 21 2015 at 10:20am |
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Bill, I understand your confusion, which is well founded, the extension of the metroplex is based upon a distance north and south of the midpoint of the area for commuting to work. By definition, Middletown would be at or near the midpoint, thus providing either a large number of jobs, and thus, employers in the city. As an alternative, Middletown could be more of a bedroom community, with less employers, but more stability in residential consumption.
The vision the city has is a mix of industry, education, healthcare, and manufacturing with the targeted residents. Any future vision or estimated plans for the city is heavily weighed against the future of AKS. If it is bought, what would happen to Middletown? Will its recent acquisition and integration be a success? When will it return to a stable profit based company is anyone's guess. Moreover, you are correct about the excess housing. The land bank eliminated some excess capacity but is doubtful, it would ever be refunded, albeit state or federal. There would be no money to tear down excess capacity. A personal observation is many older families are passing away, and their sons and daughters are moving back to Middletown, getting the home of their parent, and commuting to Cincinnati to work.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Jun 03 2015 at 5:17pm |
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Posted: 4:04 p.m.
Wednesday, June 3, 2015 NEW DETAILS Landlords group calls proposed chronic
nuisance law ‘a good deal’
By Ed Richter Staff Writer The
chairman of a Middletown landlords group called the revised version of a
proposed ordinance to address chronic nuisance properties “a good deal” that
will help the city “to start cleaning things up.” The
Middletown Real Estate Investors Group and City Manager Doug Adkins have spent
the past month clarifying the language of an ordinance designed to keep track
of properties that generate higher than normal calls for city services through
code enforcement violations, criminal activity or other actions that require a
public safety unit to respond. The
ordinance was set to be on City Council’s April 21 agenda, but was pulled so
city officials could have further conversations about it with local landlords.
The proposal is now set to go before council for consideration and final
adoption at the June 21 meeting. Adkins
told council Tuesday that the revisions clarified what was and was not a
nuisance as well as the landlords obligations. He said after meeting with the
landlords, “we now have a stronger ordinance that also kept the teeth in it.” “I
was pleased that most of the landlords see the value of this legislation and
just want to make absolutely sure they know where the line is drawn on what is
or is not included, and what action they must take to avoid being declared a
chronic nuisance property,” Adkins said. Steve
Bohannon, chairman of the MREIG, said a number of landlords took offense with
the ordinance initially, feeling that it would cause them to lose their
properties through seizures. But the revised ordinance has several key
provisions including the opportunity for a landlord to meet with the city’s
public safety director to discuss an incident to keep their property from being
designated as a chronic nuisance. “If
the landlords take the appropriate action when they are notified by police,
then they should be fine, and most should have no problem,” Bohannon said. “If
there is an (illegal) activity, then they will have to deal with it.” Bohannon
said he believes the proposed ordinance will force some absentee landlords to
get out of the business locally. “It’s
a good deal. The city needs to start cleaning things up,” he said. |
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