AJ Smith talking during council meetings

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   Molly- we were told by the mayor and the vice-mayor that the Cinci State-CIty agreement was a hand shake and done in "gentlemen's agreement style",and that no formal written agreement was done. Lease only, no purchase. We were also told that the city had to purchase the buildings for Cincy State as they were "not allowed" to buy them because the college chancellor  wouldn't allow it. (I think that is accurate) Cinci State had some financial issues from the past and they were playing "catch- up" to be able to purchase more property. This, coming from the Laubach 3rd Ward meeting at Wildwood on the 17th. The question was asked about what happens if they decide to leave when it quit working for them and how would the city handle taking care of 4 buildings that would be vacant with no takers. The response from them was that they felt good about the deal and they didn't think that would happen. Seems to me this is a 99% risk factor for the city and a 1% risk factor for the college. Same with Verdin and his arts center. What happens if and when Verdin decides to call it quits on the arts thing? City will own another building to do what with it?????? If that happens , some folks sitting behind that council desk have some explaining to do. 

Might be an awfully high price to pay for a venture that is certainly high risk at best. Guess this council hasn't learned a darn thing about high risk ventures from the past, have they?

What should the city be doing about this situation? Lowering the risk for the city in the use of taxpayer monies for these high risk ventures.  City should have leased these buildings from the Thatcher estate and done a month by month lease  to the college and arts center. Not purchased the building s IN THE HOPE that the deals work out.  Couldn't do that, then no deal. College and Verdin should have been asked to provide some skin to the game. Too skewed to the college and the arts center as to who gets the elevator and who gets the shaft. JMO

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What A City Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 06 2009 Status: Offline Points: 115	Post Options Post Reply Quote What A City Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 1:59pm
	Molly- we were told by the mayor and the vice-mayor that the Cinci State-CIty agreement was a hand shake and done in "gentlemen's agreement style",and that no formal written agreement was done. Lease only, no purchase. We were also told that the city had to purchase the buildings for Cincy State as they were "not allowed" to buy them because the college chancellor wouldn't allow it. (I think that is accurate) Cinci State had some financial issues from the past and they were playing "catch- up" to be able to purchase more property. This, coming from the Laubach 3rd Ward meeting at Wildwood on the 17th. The question was asked about what happens if they decide to leave when it quit working for them and how would the city handle taking care of 4 buildings that would be vacant with no takers. The response from them was that they felt good about the deal and they didn't think that would happen. Seems to me this is a 99% risk factor for the city and a 1% risk factor for the college. Same with Verdin and his arts center. What happens if and when Verdin decides to call it quits on the arts thing? City will own another building to do what with it?????? If that happens , some folks sitting behind that council desk have some explaining to do. Might be an awfully high price to pay for a venture that is certainly high risk at best. Guess this council hasn't learned a darn thing about high risk ventures from the past, have they? What should the city be doing about this situation? Lowering the risk for the city in the use of taxpayer monies for these high risk ventures. City should have leased these buildings from the Thatcher estate and done a month by month lease to the college and arts center. Not purchased the building s IN THE HOPE that the deals work out. Couldn't do that, then no deal. College and Verdin should have been asked to provide some skin to the game. Too skewed to the college and the arts center as to who gets the elevator and who gets the shaft. JMO

Molly Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Immigrant Joined: Oct 10 2010 Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote Molly Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 2:28pm
	Thanks, WAC! I guess if Verdin goes under, there may be a market for automobile hoods at Cohen Bros.

Neil Barille Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 07 2010 Status: Offline Points: 238	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neil Barille Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 2:31pm
	Your city is like going on a date with someone who has low self-esteem and is in desperate need of attention. They're willing to do anything to get some luvin'.

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:24pm
	VOR, to clarify, let me re-phase my comments and analogy picked up by Ms. Moon. The city tore down buildings to save maintenance expense. The city is buying buildings in capital, and will be paying maintenance some future date and potential promise, Cinci State will lease the buildings. The difference is the annual expense for the destruction of the buildings in one case, may become the expenditure in the future. The Manchester is a landmark? Then the city should also be buying the Sorg Mansion? Should it continue to other historic sites? There is no risk for either Cinci State nor PAC, other than reputation, and if it fails, it will be they tried to help Middletown out. That is even how the Provost at Cinci State characterized the relationship---"we want to help Middletown turn things around. The city is spending funds with absolutely no documented nor attempted ROCD in this venture. I just hope all those new;ly arriving Cinci State students can make it downtown w/o being pulled over for a traffic violation, and have their car impounded. Heard today Middletown is the highest city in Ohio for impounding fees---$100.00, and averages about 7-10 cars daily. As for the Jug, Dilman's, CSH, that was a statement of where does this end? I'm on record I hope Cinci State is wildly successful, and so many people want to move into the city. Same with PAC. I sincerely hope there are so many buyers out there, the BMW X5's, Saab wagons, and Range Rovers are bursting the streets with pieces hanging out their back-end.

ashkicker Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 16 2009 Status: Offline Points: 86	Post Options Post Reply Quote ashkicker Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 11:05pm
	Mr. Presta, I should have clarified my answer a bit better. I guess the engine accompanies the medic to the ER maybe once every 20 runs. That is truly a guess. Most of the time the engine is released from the scene after the medic crew decides it doesn't not need more hellp. Again, the engine is only dispatched in cases where the 911 operator feels it is a life or death situation. As far as needing an engine company when the medics will probably arrive first is again based on life or death situations. In a serious situation, two paramedics need help to provide the best care. In a typical heart attach case we will start an IV, give oxygen, put the patient on a heart monitor, get medications ready for adminstration, take vitals, take information and relay that information to the ER. While the two paramedics assigned to the squad can do all those procedures, there will be a delay in transport time. The key is rapid transport after the patient is stabilized. The reason the engine goes to the ER is continuity of services. It might take the squad 30 minutes to write the report, clean the clean and restock. If the engine crew had to wait for the squad to get back into service and then be transported back to their station, that engine company could be out of service for an hour. If the squad were enroute to drop off the engine crew and were dispatched to another run, the engine would be out of service even longer. Middletown lost, I come to this site to answer questions. I don't come here and start bellyaching about cuts. Voice of reason had some concerns and wanted information, I tried to provide him with answers. The statement that we have been cut is a fact. The fact that we lost a entire engine company is probably whining to you. What do you tell the citizens that live near the firehouse at Central and Breiel that the fire coverage that used to be one or two minutes away is now five or six minutes away. If that doesn't seem like a long time to you, try holding your breath the extra minutes. At the same time time, fire coverage east of I-75 is better with the opening of the fire house on Cincinnati-Dayton road and those citizens have not been in the city as long. We have lost more than 3 adminstrative positions, we lost nine positions when engine 5 shut down. I think 9 and 3 make 12. Call volume double? Probably. Do you know how often the PD has other agencies send in mutual aid? I don't. I don't see outside agencies within the city very often. On the other hand, it is almost a daily occurance for the fire department to have to call in mutual aid. We are stretched thin at times. Not 24 hours per day, but at some times. That is not a whine, it is a fact. Arbitration (I guess you mean contract concilliation) can be good or bad depending on your perspective. If the City wins at concilliation, you would probably think it good and I might think its bad. If the Union wins at concilliation you would probably think its bad and I would think its good. I do not know how many times salary negotiations have been decided by a concilliator, that would be a good question for Les Landen or the Union President. I do understand basic economics, I have my own household to run. I cut where I have to and at times spend more on other things than what I want. Bottom line is you have to do what you have to do to survive. In this case, our jobs are in the citizen's hands. Degree, outstanding evaluations and no raise. Do I hear a hint of a whine from you? I do think about the city from the public point of view. I drive the same rough streets. If I need a police officer, I call the same 911 dispatch center. I pay income tax just like you do. I never addressed the police chief position, I can only speak about the fire chief position. acclaro, I have posted several times on this site and have always stated the same concerning our 24 hour shifts. We do not physically work 24 hours per day and have never shied away from stating those facts. We do rest, sleep and cook on a daily basis, but it is still the most economical way to cover the city. But what goes along with resting, sleeping and cooking is (Middletownlost will consider this a whine) getting up from a dead sleep and be expected to go a full speed. All that cooking can taste awful bad after sitting on the table for an hour while we make runs. Don't get me started on going to the restroom and hearing your unit being dispatched on a run. Every job has its good points and bad points. I must admit my ignorance on the last couple of sentences in your post about pagers, amortizing and calculating the wages. I would appreciate if you would put your point into layman's terms. Ashkicker

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 11:38am
	Ashkicker, as you take the time to post on the fire department, I certainly owe you a response. My reference was you were using the 24 hr shift to indicate you worked the equivalent of roughly a 54-56 work week. My point was you are at the station, but its not as if you are working 3 triple shift at AK. You can sleep, cook, do the activities when things aren't going non stop. The same holds true for the nurse or doc on call, they have to available to response to calls if they cover a weekend etc. The difference between a 24 hrs shift for firemen is drastically different than a 24 hr driver of a snow plow, working non stop in the specific function. Hence, while using the 24 hr shift, which I understood your meaning, its a different situation entirely than a true 24 hr shift. It would be like to traveling on a business trip, where I stay overnight as a Partner in my firm, as indicating I worked 5 consecutive 24 hr shifts, because I was away from home. Then going to my Managaing Partner, and saying, hey, this is unfarir, I just worked 120 hrs this week, and got paid for 40. Thx for your responses.

Nelson...Himself Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Resident Joined: Sep 08 2010 Status: Offline Points: 69	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson...Himself Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 12:10pm
	Acclaro, Thanks for being an active MiddletownUSA participant! Your insightful commentary is valued in clarifying issues for many concerned taxpayers. Also, your probing questions must be a source of consternation for senior City Hall staff. Your presence provides added credibility in our mutual quest for the return of transparent, accountable and cost reasonable governance in Middletown.

ashkicker Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 16 2009 Status: Offline Points: 86	Post Options Post Reply Quote ashkicker Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 1:03pm
	acclaro I realize we are probably playing word games here, but your analogy is way off. While you may be away from home for those 120 hours, you will only be expected to work during those 40 hours you were paid. If I were to work 5 consecutive 24 hour shifts at the fire house, I would be expected to work, or be ready to work, for the entire 120 hours. Ashkicker

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 4:04pm
	Ash, untrue. I work in my hotel room, for hours on business. I am away from my family, the same as you. I sleep, the same as you, and answer pages, the same as you. Really no difference. You are expected to respond in the event of a fire, I understand that. Sometimes it very busy, other times it is not. When its not busy, you sleep, and aren't expected to be awake 24 hrs. When I travel, I sleep, but am away from the family. Really no different in my 120 work week than yours, except I get a salary, and no overtime.