Middletown to cut 26 first responders

I saw this on the morning news on Channel 2 WDTN talking about Police and Fire Fighters cuts.

http://www.wdtn.com/news/ohio/middletown-to-cut-26-first-responders

These actions by the public  safety unions do more harm to publicizing Middletown's problems in a 20 minute press conference and accompanying news coverage than all efforts to spend money for downtown glorification, open fresh vegetable 'farmers' markets, build a UDF, PAC, new schools, restore Sorg, have Middletown Christmas songs and cd's, and pay young professionals to move to 'upscale' downtown.

AKBobby:

"The only paper shufflers as you call it in the pd are the Chief and two deputy chiefs."

So, the Lt's, Sgt's and the patrol officers handle the field work out in the streets. Between the Lt's, Sgt's and officers, how many are working the streets per shift to cover the city? How many does the city want to cut from each shift and what will be left "uncovered" in the city that is now accounted for? How much time is taken from city coverage for the police personnel to go to court to testify? Is it a significant amount of time taken out of a normal weeks work?

Are the detectives overloaded with work or could they be back out on the street as patrol officers if the cuts become too much to overcome?

Solutions to:

Acclaro
Are you serious? Your response/suggestion is asinine! Are you blind to the ridiculous and unnecessary spending going on downtown and elsewhere by our city manager and some of council? Are you one benefiting from this bc your comments make it obvious you are not someone that needs/uses public safety and god forbid the time you do need someone whether it be a fire company, medic unit or police officer! There is a reason fire/ems departments go from volunteer to part time and to career as well as the point in time where MPD stepped away from the sheriff god knows how long ago! Response times play a huge part in this decision! Just ask surrounding communities about how their public safety is provided and if its received in adequate time. There is nothing wrong with a volunteer fire department/sheriff system but if you look at cities with crime, fire and medical needs as this city has, public safety employees here are barely getting by and making ends meet and some would say are already not able to provide the best service possible- reference the increase in response times and why don't you look into fire department mutual aide use as well as how long some PD calls go before they are attended to. Your scenario will only multiply these problems! The problem once again is not public safety! We all know it is a big part of the budget(PS is in every city, just ask Detroit- in bankruptcy yet still hiring police and FF's) that's been discussed/shown enough, the streets are also very important but come on Acclaro, where are your tax dollars being wasted? Its not in public safety, look at the run numbers for police and fire departments!

The city manager and council once again said they would not cut public safety if a levy was passed and are going back on their word! Quit attacking the people that provide/maintain your safety and find other ways to cut or how about this, make money! Which for damn sure wont happen if you keep cutting services that help to bring people in! Who wants to move their residence/business somewhere where we have the problems now that will only get worse with more PS cuts?

VietVet wrote: Butler County Sheriff......Volunteer Fire...... I see the response time being atrocious and unacceptable in very quick time. How would an emergency medical issue be handled and what would the response time increase be? If that ever occurred, I could see a lawsuit or two against the city if there is a death attributed to extremely long waits. I know of one that would happen immediately.

How many dying cities with our minimal budget have our level of public safety positions?  The fire service is where the trimming can be done.  Time to go EMS and volunteer, as Acclaro mentioned.  I usually don't see many burning buildings very often...or ever. 

Neil B:

"How many dying cities with our minimal budget have our level of public safety positions?"

FIRST OF ALL, IF INDEED THIS CITY IS DYING, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE BY PAST/CURRENT CITY HALL PEOPLE. IT IS BECAUSE PAST/CURRENT COUNCIL/COMMISSION HAVE BEEN INEPT ON THE DIRECTION THIS TOWN SHOULD HAVE GONE YEARS AGO. INEPT IN PRIORITIZING, NOT BEING ABLE TO DECIFER WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND WHAT ISN'T. SECONDLY, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THIS TOWN MAY BE STAFFED ABOUT RIGHT BASED ON THE INCREASE IN CRIME CREATED WHEN CITY LEADERS DECIDED TO MAKE IT LOW INCOME/SECTION 8 AND STAFFED ABOUT RIGHT DUE TO AN AGING POPULATION REQUIRING MORE AND MORE MEDIC RUNS THAT WILL ONLY INCREASE AS TIME GOES BY.

Neil B:

"The fire service is where the trimming can be done. Time to go EMS "

WRONG NEIL. THE CITY BUILDING WITH ALL THE TOP HEAVY SALARIES AND DUPLICATION OF PAPER-SHUFFLERS IS WHERE THE TRIMMING CAN BE DONE. YOU DON'T CUT WORKERS, YOU CUT ADMIN. PAPER-FLOW PEOPLE WHO GO TO ENDLESS MEETINGS TO DECIDE TO MEET AGAIN BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE DECISIONS AND PASS ENDLESS INFO BACK AND FORTH. YOU DON'T NEED MULTI-LAYERS OF MIDDLE MANAGEMENT. THEY ARE EXPENDABLE. AGAIN, WE MUST KEEP THE EMS AND MEDICS DUE TO AN AGING POPULATION THAT AIN'T GETTING ANY HEALTHIER.

Neil B:

"But it won't happen in this aging town. Too many old people who want a fire station around every corner to make them feel "safe", hence spinning the levy as a "safety levy"

NO NEIL, too many old people who NEED a fire station WITH A MEDIC UNIT SO THEY WON'T DIE. "WANT" DOESN'T NECESSARILY FACTOR INTO IT.....MORE LIKE A "NEED" GIVE IT TIME BUD. IT WILL BE YOUR TURN SOMEDAY WHEN THE OLD HEART ATTACK HITS UNEXPECTANTLY AND YOU'LL BE GLAD THE MEDIC UNIT SHOWS UP AT THE HOUSE TO GET YOU TO THE HOSPITAL SO you won't die. THINK IT WON'T HAPPEN TO YOU? THINK AGAIN. WE HAD NO IDEA HOW OUR DAY WOULD TURN OUT 4 YEARS AGO EITHER. WHAT HAPPENED TO PAC IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW YOUR LITTLE WORLD CAN CHANGE IN AN INSTANT. OH, AND BY THE WAY NEIL, YOU ARE GETTING OLDER TOO AND WILL EVENTUALLY NEED THEIR SERVICES. IT IS INEVITABLE. YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO AGING.

THIS IS NOT A LUXURY TO EASILY DISMISS NEIL. MEDIC CARE IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH AND A NECESSITY WHEN YOU'RE DYING. DON'T LAUGH. COULD HAPPEN TO ANYONE AT ANY TIME. YOU?, ME? WHO KNOWS WHO WILL NEED THE SQUAD NEXT?

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNION SUPPORT ON MY END. I THINK THE UNIONS ARE OVERBEARING ON THEIR DEMANDS SOMETIMES. I VOTED TO SUPPORT SB5 WHICH FAILED.......BUT I STILL APPRECIATE THE HELP THEY CONTINUE TO GIVE US AND, WITHOUT THEM, I WOULD BE WITHOUT A WIFE RIGHT NOW. THEY ARE STILL A BIGGER BANG FOR THE TAXPAYER BUCK THAN PAYING THE SALARIES OF THE CLOWNS IN THE CITY BUILDING. I WOULD FEEL BETTER GIVING THEM 10 BUCKS OF MY MONEY THAN 1 BUCK TO ANYONE IN THE CITY BUILDING OR THE SCHOOLS. AT LEAST I'M GETTING SOMETHING FOR MY MONEY OF VALUE.

SO.....GO AHEAD AND CUT THE POLICE AND FIRE/MEDICS TO THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS. GO AHEAD AND GET THE 1.1 MILLION AND RETAIN THE DEADWOOD IN THE CITY BUILDING........BUT AFTER THAT HAPPENS, DON'T BITCH AND COMPLAIN WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR HEART ATTACK OR A HOME BREAK-IN AND THEY DON'T RESPOND FOR AND HOUR OR SO DUE TO THE CUTS MADE. IF THE RESPONSE TIME IS TOO LONG, AND SOMEONE DIES OR IS SHOT AND KILLED BY THE HOME INVADER WHEN IT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED, I SEE SOME LAWSUITS AGAINST THE CITY AROUND THE CORNER. GET IN LINE WITH THE REST OF US ON THAT.

Neil Barille wrote: eastside, the difference is that the areas you mention are on much better financial footing than Middletown and can afford the level of staffing they have. The real point is why isn't there a better way to evaluate staffing -- do we really need firefighters sitting around cooking chili, washing the big fire engines, shopping at Marsh, unnecessarily going on medical runs?  Most runs are medical emergencies, not fire.  This is all about protecting union jobs for people who probably live out of town.  Gotta love the lecturing and threats coming from fire/police many of whom don't live in this town.

I wonder if we are debating the wrong question here.  I think if everyone could choose we would all choose to keep staffing levels where they are at.  I suspect what the city admin. is asking is for the unions to take a pay cut.  It seems the vast majority of Middletown residents have taken a pay cut in the last 5 years.  AK workers were locked out, car dealers are going out of business and selling less cars, real estate agents really struggled through the recession, contractors going out of business left and right countless small businesses just making it.  Why can't these folks be asked to give a little bit too?  They take a slight pay cut across the entire dept and/or pay a little more for benefits and the staffing levels can stay at a point where we are all happy.  I don't know much about their contract but i think these contracts take up 70-80% of the budget.  With 2 depts. take up that much money how can they not be impacted when the city has a sizable deficit.  I'm sure there's places we can trim in the admin (and we should) but I doubt there's enough fat in the other 20% to make up $1.5M (i think that's the correct amount).

The Fire Department has 1 Chief (although I use that term loosely), 1 secretary, 1 EMS Training Captain, and 1 Fire Marshall.  Those 4 work 40 hour work weeks (5 days a week).

acclaro:

"I add; for those like Vet that bash Section 8; should the city mandate those that cannot afford or don't want to pay for visiting angels or move into the Gables assisted living, leave Middletown as they are a burden upon other's pockets as well, ergo, Senior Citizen Center?"

So true. I do my fair share of bashing Section 8 for good reason IMO. I have stated that I voted for the Seniors Levy for selfish purposes, IE. we use the handicapped van. If that need wasn't there, and if the only reason to vote yes was to support the mis-managed funding of the Senior Center, then I would have cast a no vote. PURELY SELFISH MOTIVES BASED ON A NEED FOR THE YES VOTE ACCLARO. No one should be mandated to leave the city. I might add that, from your posts, I get the feeling you are not too fond of Section 8 either. I voted for the Seniors Levy as there was a personal need. You voted against it for your reasons. I voted no on the Safety Levy because I thought unions were a little too big for their britches, DESPITE having a need for their medic services. At the same time, again for selfish reasons, and because we use the medic service all the time. I also voted for SB5 and against the union negotiation mentality. I am supporting the service they provide, but don't necessarily support their union thought process.

acclaro:

"You have repeatedly made Ms. Andrew's point on rather stunning hypocrisy unless it benefits you, there is opposition. Many, including I, will vote yes for the new school building solely on behalf and impression Ms. Andrew has the principle of conviction, and that alone, means a great deal to me."

WHAT???? DID I READ THIS CORRECTLY? YOU, AFTER ALL THE NEW SCHOOL/OLD SCHOOL BASHING....ALL THE POOR PERFORMANCE BASHING AND ARTICLES SUPPORTING YOUR POSITION, YOU WILL VOTE YES TO SUPPORT A NEW SCHOOL BUILDING? AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO MENTION HYPOCRISY ON MY PART? YOU SUDDENLY HAVE A CHANGE OF HEART AND SUDDENLY SEE MS. ANDREW'S POSITION ON NEW SCHOOLS? YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT? AND WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "CONVICTION MEANING A GREAT DEAL TO YOU" DID YOU SUDDENLY BECOME "SAINTLY"? THE ULTIMATE EXAMPLE OF CHANGING DIRECTION AND BREAKING ONE'S NOSE. WHERE IS YOUR CONVICTION?

acclaro:

2. > 60% of Middletown's population is aged 55 or older. They buy into this ridiculous notions of scare tactics taken from the social security playbook. If you don't vote for us, you are going to lose valuable seconds. Nonsense. I have seen the multiple trucks that make their runs, staff of 5-7 fire fighters, for countless false alarms

TELL YOU WHAT, NEXT TIME WE CALL 911, I'LL CALL YOU AND YOU CAN WITNESS HOW FAST THEY GET TO THE HOUSE AND GET HER TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. HAS HAPPENED NUMEROUS TIMES IN THE PAST 4.5 YEARS AND, AS SURE AS THE SUN WILL RISE TOMORROW, THERE WILL BE MANY MORE 911 CALLS TO COME. AFTER YOU SEE WHAT THEY DO FOR HER AS TO EFFICIENCY AND TREATMENT, YOU MAY JUST CHANGE YOUR MIND. I KNOW YOU WOULD IF YOU WERE IN MY PLACE, TRYING TO KEEP YOUR WIFE ALIVE. YOU WOULD APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP YOU COULD GET.

acclaro:

"And effort to improve processes, cut, move into the real world, are met with temper tantrums and outrageous negative outbursts in the paper and media, destroying the already dismal and unacceptable image Middletown has already created for itself."

WOULD YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY IF THE MEDICS, FIRE PERSONNEL AND POLICE WERE NON-UNION? ISN'T THIS JUST A VENDETTA ON YOUR PART BECAUSE YOU AND OTHER MANAGER/EDUCATED/REPUBLICAN TYPES CAN'T STAND THE WORKING PEOPLE OF THE WORLD AND THEREFORE, WANT TO DRIVE A STAKE IN THE HEART OF ANY WORKER REPRESENTATION? ISN'T THAT THE REAL PICTURE HERE ACCLARO? WHY THE CONSTANT ATTACKS FROM "BIG ME MANGEMENT" AGAINST "LITTLE YOU WORKER" ALL THE TIME? I'VE HEARD AND SEEN THIS TYPE OF CRAP SINCE 1967 WHEN I ENTERED THE WORKFORCE. IRONICALLY, I'VE NEVER BEEN A PART OF A UNION, BUT I HAVE SEEN THE GAME PLAYED BETWEEN MANAGEMENT AND WORKER IN PLENTY OF NON-UNION SHOPS. IT AIN'T PRETTY.

acclaro:

I have a suggestion- if you think and are concerned about getting to the hospital quick, move into the Gables or assisted living

WHY MOVE? ALREADY LIVE WITHIN A FEW MILES OF THE HOSPITAL AND CAN GET THERE IN A FEW MINUTES. OH, AND DON'T QUALIFY FOR ANY ASSISTED LIVING. MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY....HAVE TOO MANY ASSETS ACCORDING TO ALL PROGRAMS CONTACTED. HELL, CAN'T EVEN GET HOME CARE FOR THE SAME REASONS.

acclaro:

"I will throw statistics that will show the wait to get into the ER jeopardizes one far greater than the time to get to the hospital."

ACTUALLY, WITH HER MANY AILMENTS, THERE IS NO WAIT ONCE SHE REACHES THE ER. THEY TAKE HER RIGHT IN. TIA'S, STROKES AND HEART ATTACK PATIENTS DON'T WAIT IN THE WAITING ROOM OF THE ER. IT AIN'T LIKE SHE HAS THE FLU.

acclaro:

"Further, many docs live around Brown's Run. If I live on a farm in the country, what your argument truly is, is that one would be better to liove next to a hospital, because the distance is shorter, and speed is critical. When one's healt gets to that state, move to assisted living or a nursing home"

YES, LOGICALLY, WHEN ONE LIVES CLOSER TO A MEDICAL FACILITY THAN NOT, THE DISTANCE IS SHORTER AND THE SPEED IS CRITICAL, DEPENDING ON THE AILMENT. AGAIN, WE DON'T QUALIFY FOR, NOR CAN WE AFFORD ASSISTED LIVING OR A NURSING HOME. HAVE YOU SEEN THE PRICES OF THOSE PLACES? FUTHERMORE, SHE IS NOT AT THAT POINT AS YET BUT MAY BE THERE AT SOME POINT IN HER LIFE. SHE HAS BEEN TO MT. PLEASANT TWICE, BUT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR PERMANENT CARE THERE.

I FIND YOUR AGGRESSIVE ATTACKS SURPRISING BASED ON YOUR PAST DEMEANOR ON YOUR POSTS. I AM SORRY THAT MY POSITION HAS OFFENDED YOU SO, BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT BEING DEPENDENT ON THE SERVICES PROVIDED IS LIKE UNTIL YOU WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES. COULD HAPPEN ANY DAY FOR MANY. BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE WITH A TOTALLY DEPENDENT PERSON, I PRAY THAT IT DOES NOT HAPPEN TO YOU OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER. YOU WOULDN'T WANT THAT PART OF MY LIFE ACCLARO.

AKBobby,