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McNeill's letter on school levy |
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Mike_Presta 
MUSA Council 
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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 Topic: McNeill's letter on school levyPosted: Apr 11 2010 at 4:40am |
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The following is a "Letter to the Editor" from Doug McNeill that appears on today's Journal website, followed by a plea from me to Mr. McNeill to enumerate one of his claims. If he does so in a direct, clear manner, and does not veer off into excuses, and without "dancing" around the clear request that I have made, I will likely join Spiderman in urging passage of the school levy.
When will these folks learn that what the public really wants is direct, HONEST talk and not all of the carefully worded, parsed statements, or phrase-ology meaning nothing near what it appears to mean, or the outright lies that we are being fed these days by dishonest, corrupt politicians and their willing accomplices in the press, the corporate world, and the quasi-government freeloaders.???
*********************************************************************‘Continue this journey of progress’3:02 PM Friday, April 9, 2010
Atrium Medical Center strongly supports Issue 5, which is a school renewal levy on the May 4 ballot. As part of the fabric of our social service infrastructure, we know first hand the importance of an educated workforce as well as the investment needed to continue the basic funding for our local schools. Without this basic funding, our community cannot meet the needs of our children, their families and our employer base. In recent years, our school system has made significant gains in student proficiency. This academic progress has resulted from innovative teaching and learning programs as well as personal attention for those who learn differently than others. Approving this renewal tax levy allows our schools to continue this journey of progress, and gives our students a fair chance to develop basic learning skills, and to become productive members of the workforce. This we know: • Issue 5 does not raise taxes on current properties. • Issue 5 is a renewal for two levies that have been on the books for years. • Issue 5 represents 26 percent of our school income. • From the 2007 fiscal budget, the Middletown City School District cut $2 million and those cuts remain in place today. • Issue 5 keeps teachers, textbooks and student programs in place to provide a fundamentally sound curriculum and learning experience for our children. By supporting Issue 5, the Middletown community keeps school programs that are working for Middletown kids. Please support Issue 5.
Douglas W. McNeill President and CEO Atrium Medical Center Middletown
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 8:33am |
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McNeill's letter is typical "city leader propaganda" that comes out of the closet every time a levy is asked for by the school people. It is a weak attempt to sway the voters to approve the levy to feed their insatiable appetite to spend money on salaries and extra, non-needed positions within the system. His use of "significant improvement" is almost comical. There hasn't been any SIGNIFICANT improvement in the Middletown schools at any grade level and in any category on the proficiency tests for over 10 years. Middletown schools are always at the bottom every time we see the results posted in the Journal.
Using McNeill, as a prominent member of the community, is an age-old ploy by the city leaders to influence/cooerce the general public into getting the levy approved so that the city leaders can feel good about themselves, massage their egos a bit more and puff out their chests like a barnyard rooster strutting around. It is shameless. We are voting no because we don't wish to waste anymore of our money sending it to property taxes to fund a system that is, at best, in neutral as to progress. We refuse to fund a poor performer any longer. The school folks have had ample time (10 years or more) to turn this ship around and have failed to do so. It it time to give it to the state to re-align. Perhaps, with state direction and new personnel, we can go a different direction. What we are doing now, isn't working. To refund a renewal that was once an emergency gone permanent is the game that the schools run on the taxpayer. Ask yourself, have you been getting a good deal for the taxes you have been paying to this district? Look at your property tax bill. Over 80% is going to the schools. Do you feel cheated for what you got in return? I do. JMO |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 9:56am |
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Mike, I am not certain I have read your statement correct. You are suggesting Mr. McNeil made a convincing argument? Please! 75% or greater of the school's operating funds are tied up in overhead for salaries and benefits. It doesn't raise taxes? Fine, howabout not passing the levy because it lowers them---property values have plummted under the incredulous waste and neglectful oversight by the city, council, and school board. Progress is being made? You must accept strides which take years which Middletown to remain in its current state are acceptable- I don't.
As for Mr. McNeil, he has no credibility nor influence over my vote. He had his former VP of Marketing doing his bidding (and diryy work) and moved his hospita while the taxpayer is left behind in a mess. That's a sound reason for voting yes because of Doug McNeil? I encourage all to use the Southwest Ambularory Care unit---you'll find the cost of 50% than the Atrium.
This levy should fail, and the argument is not convincing. What an ineffective levy---pass it, because it won't raise taxes---where's the performance Mike, and others? Its not ther. the argument is fatally flawed.
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 10:10am |
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I'm sick to death hearing from these money grubbing political wannabes.
I'll happily support this levy/renewal if the schools do the following :
1. Abolish ALL sports activity
2. Abolish ANY activity that does not directly relate to education
3. Reinstate PADDLINGS by teachers & principles
4. Institute MANDATORY homework on a daily basis
5. Cut teachers & administrators salary by 15-25%
6. Abolish so-called "resource officers"
7. Institute a parent day where at least one parent can spend the entire day with their child at school
8. A recall of all school board members
9. Ban cell phones for students and teachers
10. Institute & enforce a strict dress code
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 10:23am |
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wow--tough bunch this morning
so--any of you want "Support Issue 5" yard signs to display?
I have a few left
Mr.McNeill has no credibility with me.
Will Mr.Wainscott's piece be next Sunday?
And Merrell Wood's of course!
Hermes--that is one brutal list of demands--I don't expect all of those things to happen.
I say we publish a list of demands for Hermes also--are you recieving any govt.subsidies?
I will be voting YES on this issue because it is the most prudent thing to do.
I also hope for many changes to follow.
Hope a few of you change your mind
I respect your opinions, and honestly understand MOST of your thinking.
Just want to get this through, while still voting NO on everything else.
VOTING FOR PAUL NENNI to go onto County Commission
A rep from Middietown would be a huge step in our direction.
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Nick_Kidd
MUSA Resident 
Joined: May 15 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 1:49pm |
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The significant gains are going from meeting 6 out of 30 (20%) indicators of MINIMUM proficiency to 5 out of 30 (16.66%) of indicators met. The gains in the Performance Index has to do with closing the learning gap between groups of students. MCSD did close some gaps, not by bringing the lower performing group up but by bringing the better performing group down.
In 2007 the superintendent and school board cut school bussing, school hours and sports even though the levy would not be collected until the first tax bill in 2009. (The schools were fully funded for 2007). The only reason for those cuts was to hold our children's education hostage to pass the levy. In 2007 we heard the same thing we are hearing today about how the schools would improve. Look at the above performance and see if you got your money's worth.
This is a permanant levy that if passed will make Middletown one of the highest property taxes in the state for one of the lowest performing school districts in the state(599 or 592 out of 612). A low performing school district is generally considered the number one reason for the decline of an area. Put that with high property taxes to support a failed school system and it will be the death knoll for any recovery of our city even if we could get City Council to do anything right.
The passage of this permanant levy would cause the state to take money away from MCSD causing the citizens to pay more and the state to pay less to our school district (remember when the school board was justifying the emergency levies). With the loss of state money, they will then put on more emergency levies. This happened back in the 80s and many of us saw this play out the same way.
Failure of the levy would leave the schools receiving above average per pupil cost. Someone said that we get what we pay for. If that we true we would either have a school district performing in the upper 10% in the state or we would have property taxes in the bottom 2-3% in the state.
By the way, having 72% of the children on free or reduced price lunches, has more to do with the schools getting more federal money for this program than it does the needs of the community.
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Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 2:56pm |
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Spider- Nenni???? You will vote for Nenni because you want representation here in northern Butler County-specifically Middletown??? Really?? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we get a taste of what Nenni offered when he was on City Council? Wasn't it little to nothing at the time? Wasn't that the knock on Nenni when he was up for re-election, or am I wrong on that??? Can't remember back that far. Someone with a better memory refresh me on his accomplishments while on Council. Thanks in advance for any help in this area. Now, you are suggesting that we ramp up his influence to the county level?
I do have to admit, I am an anti-Nenni enthusiast because I view him as a very arrogant person. Don't like the man because of his demeanor. For this reason, he will never receive my vote. |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 7:47pm |
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I think they should have come out with another five year levy. It's obvious what they are trying to pull off with the "permanent levy." I would vote for a shorter term levy in a second. Not so sure about this one.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 8:04pm |
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First, let me point out that I have refrained from expressing an opinion--either FOR or AGAINST--the Issue 5 levy up to this point. I have only been trying to get the TRUTH out into the open. (For example, please recall my lengthy exchange with Ms. Andrew wherein we debated whether or not the tax RATE could increase under the proposed levy and she finally stated: “Also yes, the tax rate for the fixed amount levy could fluctuate slightly, …”. I still contend that the tax RATE could rise as much as 4% per year under certain conditions, and I can cite sections of the Ohio Revised Code that support this position.) I chose not to quibble over her choice of the phrase “fluctuate slightly” to describe this possibility. Next, I must agree with you that I have NOT found convincing arguments that include vague phrases such as "continuous improvement" or "significant progress". However, I do want to reach the truth. But whenever we try to get someone to explain exactly what such vague phrases mean, they either fail to reply or they go off on tangents about things such as Middletown's socio-economic status or the unfairness of comparisons of the MCSD to other nearby districts. These tangents may be reasonable arguments for some of the "failures" of our district, but the do NOTHING to explain the details of "significant progress" that we are being asked to applaud. Since I want to get at the TRUTH, I ask Mr. McNeill to ENUMERATE the EXACT. SPECIFIC items OF "SPECIFIC PROGRESS" that have been made so that I (and the rest of the electorate) can make a rational decision at the ballot box. If there has been "significant progress" of which I am not aware, I want to know about it, and I am sure that you would like to know as well. Since I am aware of none, it behooves one of those, such as Mr. McNeill, who declare that it exists to clearly explain it to us. Failure to do so would be a serious dereliction of their civic duty, and the failure of this levy will then rest on their shoulders!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 8:14pm |
Well, he DID vote to spend $13 MILLION of the taxpayers' money on "CROSSROADS 2000", version 1.9947 of "Olde Tyme Down Towne" to bring back "the sizzle" for
(NOTE: Now they are getting ready to foist version 1.9952 on us.)
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Apr 11 2010 at 8:19pm |
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Vet: Also, Let's not forget that Nenni, while on the most recent Charter Review Committee, was one of the biggest proponents of abolishing the "WARD System" in Middletown, claiming that it was divisivse and led to inefficient government. Now he wants to do just the OPPOSITE and institute a WARD System into County Government, using exactly the opposite arguments that he used to abolish it in Middletown!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 6:49am |
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Mike- I couldn't recall any positive things that he achieved while on the city commission (or council) whatever it was called at the time. I do remember his demeanor and approach moreso than his actual activities. Yes, there is a certain amount of irony in him wanting to abolish the wards in town and create a similar situation at the county level. You say that he had his input on the downtown area also through Crossroads 2000 and you imply that he had business friends that he allegedly tried to help in the downtown area also? If true, do we really want a guy who wants to "come in the back door" representing us here in northern Butler County? Would he be that effective in getting us some recognition here in Middletown, since we have been ignored by Hamilton for so long?
Off the subject, but speaking of getting us some recognition here in Middletown........what's the deal with Gary Cates? He shows up at alot of Middletown meetings. I remember seeing him at the meeting at Highview Elementary the night the school board and council had their joint meeting and got into it a little over what Section 8 was doing to the schools. He just sat at a table off to the side and "observed". If he's not going to help us, why does he show at so many events here in town? Wonder if he knows all the crap that is going on in town? Or....if he cares? Seems fairly worthless as to him providing help for the city, doesn't he? |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 6:55am |
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Vet--who is YOUR choice from the county commission mix?
Who and why?
Paul Nenni is the only local running I believe.
So Mr.Kidd-- was that a YES on a yard sign?
I should have these up in Vet's and Mike's yards 2day!!
Who takes the empy Council seat?
Seems Mr.Barge should get a chance since he was the only person interested enough to file and run for it.
I seriously doubt that it will be Mr.P or SJ, though a wonderful opportunity to shift the balance around for a while. If that were to happen, people might actually like the results!
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MerrellWood
MUSA Immigrant 
Joined: May 14 2009 Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 9:34am |
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Spider: I have no plans to write anything on the school levy issue. My interest's are to gather support in the
public & private sector to eventually succeed with the "Computers for Kids" campaign I've proposed. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 11:49am |
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OK- Spider...here goes.....
Jolivette- nope- had his chances- not happy with the nepotism and the hiring of his family members. Also have an issue with him that goes back to the 80's when he and Joe Statser were at my house during the 4th of July parade, having a strategy meeting and later, I found out why he switched partys. Never cared for the man after that. Nenni- already discussed Carpenter- Her responses in the candidate forum were canned and had absolutely no substance at all. Not a good selection for our county. Alverez- Too much West Chester in him. Probably doesn't know where Middletown is. Forget him as to helping us up north. He would probably turn out to be no different than what we have now and that's unacceptable. Von Stein- Too green. Just a "common man' he says. Tell me more about your ideas for the county. Wes Retherford- He wants the best person for the job. He wants to eliminate nepotism in Hamilton. No more hiring family, Jolly. I'd probably vote for him, but I want to know more. As soon as Furmon is done with his time on commission, he needs to go also. He and Jolivette are the two problem children on commission. JMO Yeah, what about that empty council seat? When are they suppose to make the decision? How much longer do they wait to fill Mr. Armbruster's seat and what is the criteria for choosing the replacement? |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 12:11pm |
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Criteria, be a Citizen of Middletown and live in the 1st Ward and of age, not much else to require. So SJ you gonna throw your your hat in for the Council Seat and make a difference? Can't think of many others, if any with your knowledge of the city and all the different hats you have worn for the city over the years. SJ time to step up and REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 2:16pm |
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By all means, please do leave an Issue 5 sign in the yard, Spider! Bring those excess signs as well.
You are all invited to the house tonight, as we prematurely celebrate the defeat of Issue 5 with a bonfire in the front yard. Bring the weinies (no, not the city leaders) and the marshmallows as we put the Issue 5 yard sign, left by the Spider, out of its misery. 
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 at 3:44pm |
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Sorry Vet/Mike/Hermes/pacman/nick due to incredible demand, I am out of school levy yard signs. sold the last two @ $50 each to the mmfers. Vet-yer post on the county candidates pretty much explains why I have chosen Mr.Nenni. Since Paul and you are both lifers and approx.the same age, I assume that you 2 have crossed paths many times around here. |
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4:11 AM, 4/11/2010
This makes it difficult for ordinary citizens to comprehend the repeated claims such as “significant gains” or “continuous improvement” year after year.
It might also be worthy of note that fouurteen of the twenty districts most similarly situated socio-economically as ours had higher than the MCSD.
I look forward to your enumeration of the exact, specific “significant gains” in time to influence those who may be disinclined to vote YES on May 4!
4:05 AM, 4/11/2010
In your letter, you state that: "In recent years, our school system has made significant gains in student proficiency."
Would you please enumerate EXACTLY what those "significant gains" are?
It seems that although many make that claim, no one in town has been able to list SPECIFICALLY what these "significant gains" are.
And please note that for school year 2008-09, the MCSD placed 592nd out of 610 districts according to the Ohio DoE’s “Performance Index Score” list.
(cont.)
4:03 AM, 4/11/2010