What can we do?

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   Like many of you I was born here and have spent the majority of my life here. It’s sad to see this city go the way it has gone and continues to go.  I remember when I was younger going to see my dad over at Miami Packaging (were we worked and retired form) and the area was full of cars and the downtown was nice. I remember when we lived over on Wilbraham road behind what was Mom’s Minute Market, and the neighborhood was middle class and really very nice. 

I drive these streets a lot every day, there is not one part of this town I have not been in. All the good and decent neighborhoods from back then are gone, replaced with low income and section 8. I, unlike most don’t have the (what’s the word) distain for section 8 as some do. I do believe with out a doubt that we have way too much. And I have seen no plan to reduce it, as of yet. But what bothers me is the condition of the neighborhoods and the streets in our town. I personal wouldn’t care if 10,000 people were on section 8 if they keep good up keep on the property and were doing what they could to better themselves. 

But, we all know that this is not the case, most in the program see it as a free ride. And why shouldn’t they? That’s what our city has turned it in to.

I along with all of you have paid taxes in this city since I was old enough to work (16) and what do we get for our troubles….to drive on broken streets past boarded up buildings and watch businesses flee daily. 

I ask you all what can we do about it? What we have been doing has not worked, no one is listening and if they are they don’t care. It’s time for a new approach to changing our city. 

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randy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote randy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: What can we do? Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 12:55pm
	Like many of you I was born here and have spent the majority of my life here. It’s sad to see this city go the way it has gone and continues to go. I remember when I was younger going to see my dad over at Miami Packaging (were we worked and retired form) and the area was full of cars and the downtown was nice. I remember when we lived over on Wilbraham road behind what was Mom’s Minute Market, and the neighborhood was middle class and really very nice. I drive these streets a lot every day, there is not one part of this town I have not been in. All the good and decent neighborhoods from back then are gone, replaced with low income and section 8. I, unlike most don’t have the (what’s the word) distain for section 8 as some do. I do believe with out a doubt that we have way too much. And I have seen no plan to reduce it, as of yet. But what bothers me is the condition of the neighborhoods and the streets in our town. I personal wouldn’t care if 10,000 people were on section 8 if they keep good up keep on the property and were doing what they could to better themselves. But, we all know that this is not the case, most in the program see it as a free ride. And why shouldn’t they? That’s what our city has turned it in to. I along with all of you have paid taxes in this city since I was old enough to work (16) and what do we get for our troubles….to drive on broken streets past boarded up buildings and watch businesses flee daily. I ask you all what can we do about it? What we have been doing has not worked, no one is listening and if they are they don’t care. It’s time for a new approach to changing our city.
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lrisner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330	Post Options Post Reply Quote lrisner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 2:39pm
	Section 8 didn't destroy Middletown, it is just a symptom of the larger issue. What killed Middletown? The same thing that almost destroyed the Economy! That is unrestrained Capitalism and the Free Market! Not to say that they are bad things, not at all. However, uncontrolled, they are bad. Our culture is seeing the result. I remember People crying "Wolf" (that's what I thought) about unrestrained Development and I agreed with the Conventional Wisdom, that they were Idiots. Now, in hind sight, they were not entirely wrong. It is the same all over the Country, Cities dying while the Suburbs are all bright, shiny, and new. Some commonsense should have been used to administrate some reasonable Limits to Development. Look right here in Butler County, we have massive Development outside of Hamilton and Middletown, while the old Cities themselves are rotting. What if we had been a little more conservative in approving all the Development. Would the Cities still be as bad as they are now? A lot of this Board will say Yes, because "the scum would have still been here", referring to the Low Income People. But the truth is that easy. How much Cash was made with all this Development and where is it now? It certainly is not in our Cities! The only Cash there now is HUD money. What did we gain by going for the quick Buck at the expense of the Cities? We probably will spend just as much in Subsidies and HUD cash to keep the Cities from becoming Ghettos as we gained by OKing all the development for the money it made us then. No easy answer to your question. It ceratinly can't all be the fault of Section 8 People or even the Artys Folks now on the Scene.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 3:55pm
	Randy you need to get a better understanding of what Section 8, in particular an excessive amount of Section 8 and poverty do to a city financially. It is not disdain for Section 8 nor the people on it. It is simply an economic fact that excessive Section 8 when 75% of the people on Section 8 must make 30% or less of the median income for the area can not and don't' support a city economically. They do not have disposable income to support local businesses, they pay little or no taxes, they use up Public Services far beyond what they contribute. A reasonable amount of Section 8 400-500 Vouchers is not an issue. When you have 1 voucher for every 29 residents that is a problem economically for everyone in the city. This has been said over and over on this board. I personally believe that Middletown will see itself above 25% in the 2010 census for a poverty level. This is not good for the poor, the middle class or the upper class. This does not help to attract new businesses to Middletown, which bring jobs and revenue to the city. Why come here with all of the negatives when you can go 5 miles in either direction and find: Good Schools Retail and Services Amenities of all kinds Lower Crime Infrastructure that is maintained Better Housing Stock than excessive old Steel Mill housing Leadership that is in tune with it's citizens and what it takes to grow a community Randy you can not run a City by catering solely and constantly to its poorest citizens on a level that Middletown continues to do. The people footing the bill leave and you are left holding a mess of Poverty, run down communities, high crime, poorly educated citizens, no jobs and the situation continues to get worse for everyone in the city. Excessive Section 8 does not help even the people on Section 8 in Middletown. There are not enough living wage jobs here anymore. Many on Section 8 are restricted in their ability to travel to places where they can get a job that would pay a living wage. You are not doing anyone any good by having an excessive amount of Section 8 in Middletown. The city has deteriorated to the point where the Socioeconomic balance has swung to nearly the point of no return and City Council and the City Admin continually saying they want to work on restoring it and actually doing nothing each year doesn't help, but hey we get lead stories about Council and they now want a dog park. Can we cay that the priorities of this city are severally out of kilter? Randy you will always have Section 8 and Poverty. The problem comes in when you have to much of it in one area and you begin to drive out the residents who actually pay the taxes that the city runs on. You run out the residents that have disposable income to support local businesses. You have a school system that has 70% of it's kids on reduced lunch, with poor performing scores and the residents that have the means move their children elsewhere which only exacerbates the school problem. The city has not kept up with the times. It can't maintain it's infrastructure unless they get funds from outside sources. They have relied on HUD funding from Section 8 to supplement the salaries of a significant number of employees. It must layoff it's non union workers just to maintain its union workers and what little services it provides. The city is on the verge of failure with the course it has taken over the last 5-10 years. If it does not wake up and change course to restore the Socioeconomic balance to the city, the city will implode on itself and the state will end up taking it over. Randy you and many others think that that if someone speaks out against excessive Section 8 or the poor that they loathe them or have disdain for them. It has nothing to do with disdain for Section 8 or the people on it or those living in poverty but everything to do with the economics of what has happened in Middletown. I own a service business in Middletown for the last 6 years and I have seen in that short period of time what a socioeconomic imbalance has done to the Service and Retail businesses in Middletown and the City.

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 4:30pm
	Pacman ................ I'd also like for you to consider ........ 1) the negative impact of certain arrogant, we-know-it-all senior City staff who lack "PROVEN EXPERTISE" in successful non-bureaucratic revitalization strategies for declining communities like Middletown; 2) the refusal of these inexperienced senior City staff to again "MEANINGFULLY INVOLVE" knowledgable private sector small business owners, real estate professionals, commercial and residential lenders, etc.; 3) and to properly respect the principles of "CITIZENS PARTICIPATION" via transparent and accountable governance. The bigger question is, "Are certain senior City staff appropriate for a community like Middletown at this crucial time with its' multiple problems?"

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 5:30pm
	Amen, Pacman

Smartman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 299	Post Options Post Reply Quote Smartman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 5:37pm
	Excellent Pacman, could not have said it any better! Sad for once was a great community.

randy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote randy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 5:49pm
	See you know whats funny I asked a simple question WHAT CAN WE DO!! no one answers that. Instead you point out what we all already know. Middletown has too much Section 8. I think that is pretty damn apparent. I believe disdain is in fact the proper word. Example: any topic made on here always turns to section 8 or city council. I could come on here say I just saw a unicorn and some would ask if it was on section 8. Maybe I dont know all I should about the subject. But what I do is I grew up here went to school here and I have watched the town fall apart. I have also realized that just sitting here talking about doesn't work, so again what can we do?? we have 1,600 vouchers they are not going away face it they are here and probable here to stay. so until people have truly had enough and stand up to those doing it to us we will continue to go the way we are going. I love this forum thinks its the best thing in Middletown, but it takes more than blogging to make some changes.
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randy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote randy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 5:52pm
	And yes people what Pacman says is true and said very well. But until someone shows up at the section 8 meeting and stands up when they ask for comments it is all pointless.
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acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 6:56pm
	While I understand your post Randy, I believe to take shots at individiuals on section 8 is simply wrong and inaccurate. I live in one of the nicest areas in Middletown, and have neighbors with advanced degrees (doctorates) who have christmas trees taken out from the holiday, sticking in a backyard, and paint peeling, just like those fined for the "eyesore" they cause. I know one family in section 8 now, that the wife was a former Delta airlines stewardess for 20 years whose husband was a plant manager. She developed a chronic illness, it depleted their income, and they both lost their jobs. They are exteremely considerate and certainly above middle class. They maintain their property impeccably; I add, its the slumlords who don't take care of their property, not the resident. I further add, I have hired some of the hardest and most intelligent "generalists" who live in section 8 who are willing to do anything for an extra $20.00. Great mechanics who gladly come to your home, work hours, and can do work on any foreigh car, and have a great work ethic. You don't understand...there are no jobs in Middletown! Those that are, very few, are given to the nepotism at city hall, or others, a friend of a friend. I jave a good friend whose daughter applied for an Executive Position at the new Inn at the Renaissance, that has a business degree from a top liberal arts university and worked for several large Cincy law firms. She didn't even get an invite for an interview. I think in hard times, its better not to criticize those in the shoes you aren't walking in. I know executives at GM, that lost huge bonuses. I have friends at IBM, who were fired when GM restructured, some with 30 years with the company. This assailment on individuals on section 8 as the problem for all of Middletown's problems is wrong. You are taking the misproportion of section 8 and hitting many people who simply ran into hard times. That's not right in my opinion. Is there too much 8- apparently, as Middletown has about 75% of it, but to state those people are ignorant, don't care about an education, have no work ethic, and free load...well, I can tell you there are some that lived in neighboroods as fine as The Oaks or others in town, but worked in the private sector, and got hit with a downsize. Not everyone has tenure and lifetime employment like those in city hall, the library, and MUM.

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:05pm
	Randy, to your point, there is nothing that immediately can be done to section 8 #'s. The city has a contract and set allocation, In time, apparently the city plans to reduce that. With a little reserach, it could be found who wons what, where, and if standards are being met ( maintaining the property), but one would assume that's what Doug Adkins does for a living. I understand one of the largest owners of 8 property is a police chief who retired from the Middletown force, who others have stated (I have no idea where his property is), other than around Jackson Lane, does little to maintain it. I don't think its going away soon, in terms of numbers. If you want property cleaned up, identify it, and I'm sure Mr. Adkins will be happy to fine he owner imo.

Smartman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 299	Post Options Post Reply Quote Smartman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:07pm
	Randy, Until we get a Council that has a true passion for bring this town back, we will be stuck in the SOS. We thought that new blood would make a change, we were wrong. They answer to the oldtimers so not to ruffle feathers. They make statemenst like If I had more time to study the proposal maybe I would of voted differently. Its all a crock! We as the folks who were born and raised here need to make a stand in public! I remember the good old days, Ortman's buses, Murphy's at Christmas, a busy downtown, and of course, The All American City!. Those days are gone, never to be seen that way again. But we can be that again now. We need to make suggestions to council,,,no demand change. We as tax payers to the city and property owners, need to say enough is enough. Section needs to go! Kich CBL out of town and develope the Towne Mall area into medical research and a campus. Hell we have a new hospital and soon to be ne Veterans hospital. The downtowb area needs to be bulldozed. It to can be developed for education! In case the council has forgotten, Miami U is in town, and would probably jump at the opportunity to develope that area for education. We are not blue colla any more. Technology is our future. Dog S*** areas and doggies get acquanted areas aint gonna make Jimbo and AJ!! Lets have a meeting and dicuss a plan to tell the jachasses downtown we are fed up. ets give them these ideas and if they dont like we get rid of all of them! My property value has gone down $50,000! I am fed up!!!! here's some ideas Randy!

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:18pm
	Randy you brought up the Damn topic of Section 8 in your opening post. You also showed your complain lack of understanding on the impact of excessive Section 8 and poverty on a city such as Middletown, by stating you didn't care if there were 10000 Section 8 vouchers in Middletown. You are the one showing disdain for many of the Section 8 recipients by your comments above, not me or anyone else. Randy if you don't understand the problem which it appears you don't as far as the financial ramifications of Poverty on a City in Middletown's financial state, then there is nothing you can do to solve the problem. Since you appear to have some inside info that the rest of us don't and basically have made the statement that Section 8 is not going to be reduced under the current Council and Admin I would say you need to: 1) Start recall petitions for Armbruster and Becker and Mulligan or take your pick. 2) Find suitable replacement candidates for them now. 3) Start a letter writing campaign to have Gilleland replaced asap. 4) Start a citizens group to put forth an agenda which is going to take this city forward and enough of this treading water and doing nothing. 5) Put forth an initiative to bring back the infrastructure fund. 6) If there are any persons that are responsible for the Section 8 Mess left at city hall fire them. 7) Remove Kohler in what appears to be his sole voice on the direction the city is moving as far as business development is concerned.. 8) Do away with many of the excessive committees which now over run the city. 9) Set forth a reasonable plan to deal with Section 8 and the poor in Middletown and act upon it . 10) Form a City and School Board liason to meet regulary other than the once a year 2 minute rush thru that they currently have, as it is obvious the problems of the city are intertwined with the Educational failure in Middletown Schhol system, the City just doesn't get it or doesn't care. If you want more you know where to find me.

lrisner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330	Post Options Post Reply Quote lrisner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:23pm
	You got no answer Randy, because there is NO answer. Even if we get rid of all Sec 8, our problems will be no different. Pacman is right that the Poor don't add to the Tax, nor do they have money to support Local Business. If we ere to get rid of them, how would things change? Do any of us think that good, hard working Middle Class Families, that pay Taxes and support Business, would miraculously move into the former Sec 8 Rentals or buy them? I don't! The only thing that would happen is that the Crime would go down some, but we also would have even more Vacant Housing Stock. That is why my own Plan would be one of not returning to past spender, but merely one of Downsizing Gracefully.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:31pm
	The number of Section 8 vouchers can be set forth in the Administrative policy if I am not mistaken. The problem is getting the MPHA to act upon it.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:39pm
	"Gilleland said her “intention was to have a fixed fee for the contract thus not providing an incentive for CONSOC to increase the number of vouchers. After conversations with CONSOC, we are willing to consider a fee based upon the number of vouchers. While the city is willing to consider a fee based on the number of vouchers, Gilleland said the city is also including language in the proposed contract to reduce the number of vouchers by 10 percent a year until there is a total of 800 vouchers from the current 1,662 vouchers. Gilleland said, “the reduction would only be through attrition - as voucher holders left the program, their voucher would be given back to HUD (the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development).” She said HUD could reassign those vouchers to Butler or Warren County, but also said the city is more concerned about ensuring our program is under control. While this language of intent to reduce is included in the contract, Council will need to also discuss as the Housing Authority while reviewing the Administrative Plan, she said."

randy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote randy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 7:53pm
	Pacman, I have shown no disdain for any one on section 8 or struggling with low income,and if it came of that way it was not my intent. And I did bring up the topic of section 8, hell it's all people talk about. But I asked what could be done about it. My disdain comes for the condition of houses in town and the landlords not being held accountable. I know many good people on section 8 and who are low income, hell I am low income. I made 13,000 last year. So dont talk to me like I dont live this everyday. I am not on section 8 but if I need it I would be. As for inside info, nope I dont have any. But I can read the writing on the wall. Hell I am more hated than anyone on this site by the city because I am the face that shows up and sends emails asking questions. Do you know something I dont about this council?? I dont see them making any great leaps to reduce the numbers. My problem comes when everyone just complains and says how bad this city is but no one does anything to change it. 1) Start recall petitions for Armbruster and Becker and Mulligan or take your pick. little late for that dont yea think. 3) Start a letter writing campaign to have Gilleland replaced asap. Thats a good one, but showing up in person might work better 4) Start a citizens group to put forth an agenda which is going to take this city forward and enough of this treading water and doing nothing. Nick kidd did that once and no one came, imagine that. 6) If there are any persons that are responsible for the Section 8 Mess left at city hall fire them. I agree 7) Remove Kohler in what appears to be his sole voice on the direction the city is moving as far as business development is concerned.. Thats the best plan of all, but again no one is out raged enough yet.
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randy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote randy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 8:06pm
	acclaro, I dont think I took a shot at any one on section 8, and I didn't mean to if I did. I have no problem with the people on section 8. I do however have an issue with the way it is run. I do however have a problem with the way landlords are alllowed to function. I do have a problem with no one speaking up to those that have the ability to change it, SHOW UP. I attended almost every city council meeting (yes I am paid, but that was not always the case) I sit there by my self away from everyone involved with the city. I am the enemy. I am the face of the crazy bloggers on MUSA (their words not mine) I sit and wait for someone to stand up at look at council and tell them what they say on here. But no one ever does. Well one guy use to. And it never fails that the day after people have all these comments and ideas, but the wont stand up. I have offered to come get people that dont have a ride or stand next to them as they tell council their thoughts. It gets old. I live in the hardest hit area, I live next door to people on section 8.... great people. People either need to show up and speek up, march down there and make them listen or be quite altogether.
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acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 11:38pm
	Randy, there is no one within city hall, managers, clerks, broom sweepers, to the legal staff, that anyone who voices an opinion on this site should feel inferior. It would be inappropriate to comment in this forum, but the degree of incompetence, lack of procedural follow through, and accountability is well known, and in every department, from the court to the manager through the water department, to economic development. And it is well lnown throughout other communities from attorneys whom practice law, to individuals who might come through to drive to Hamilton. Most call them insane and incompetent, so I wouldn't take offense nor give consideration to anyone in those quarters using the term "crazy." Their actions speak for themself as well as the damage remaining from their actions- company execs here 100 plus years bolt, hospital bolts, school bolts, commercial industy- bolts (look at all the commercial lease signs all over town. You want action and change? Better be speaking to the firm Dewey Cheatum and Howe. Randy, "wake up and smell the coffee". If you think city council or the school board is going to alter Middletown for the better, let me trade your gold for my plastic. And why does Armbruster think Sunset would make a swell dog playground? Because there are these city ldrs and council folks completely lost in the wilderness- who actually think they have a plan to bring young residents into Middletown. You see, young hip professionals ride bikes, don't they, just like they do in Colorado or Oregon. So, they build a bike path. Then, young people like dogs, and get them a few years or more before having kids. Brilliant! We build a dog park, and they will come, the young, upscale, high tech, c++, database guru's, and nanotechnology geeks, coming to Middletown with their money, and we are on the path to glory! Startling as it may appear, that's reality as to why the bike path and the doggy play ground is the buzz now. Maybe they'll come up with a repelling rock simulation to scale the old Cinergy building. They are also putting in a rowing station on the river, as the young hipsters love to row at dawn just like they did when they were at Harvard on the Charles River on the Cambridge side, and a sailboat harbor is to be added for the influx from Berkley bringing their paint brushes and kilms for glass blowing. I ask: who is truly "crazy"? I rest my case.

randy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote randy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 12:08am
	acclaro,I dont think for one second that council is going to change anything, not current council at least. But wouldn't you agree that actions speak louder than words? And wouldn't you agree that if you have a problem you speak up to the ones causing you grief ? I dont think anyone on this site is crazy (their words not mine) in fact I believe most on here are extremely smart and want whats best for Middletown, as I do. But I also believe sitting on the side line waiting for change instead of forcing some sort of action is not the way to go. Would you not agree?
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Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 6:12am
	The Interstate Highway System started the great shift in population away from the downtown areas. Cities that were near the interstate thrived while many other small communities became ghost towns. Then came the “Pill” and we now had smaller families with more money to spend on the good things in life. We could live anyplace and work miles away from our homes. We spent hours running up and down the new interstate looking for a new sub-division to call home while buying cheap gasoline for our over sized cars. Yes, sir life was just great! And then the final stake was driven into the heart of our downtown business centers by the big box stores like Wal-Mart opening up on the edge of town and sucking all the dollars from the core because “China could make it cheaper”…and we bought all that they could produce. The banks, lawyers, doctors, accountants and dentist all moved out of the downtown to be closer to their clients. We left the poor to live and deal with the problems of their neighborhoods and the crumbling buildings in the downtown core. NOW YOU WANT CHANGE…. Well what are YOU willing to do? Are YOU willing to stop shopping at Wal-Mart and support local business? Are YOU willing to pay more for an American Made Product? Are YOU willing to move back into the downtown area? Are YOU willing to stand before City Council and demand change? If you want change…THEN YOU MUST CHANGE!

spiderjohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749	Post Options Post Reply Quote spiderjohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 7:02am
	Amen Ms.Moon blah blah blah dog park thinking is so bizarre that I think that it has finally put me over the edge

Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 7:24am
	City Hall says that downtown is booming. City Hall says that they want to draw even more people downtown. City Hall says that a lot of people would use a dog park. City Hall says that they're going to demo a whole lot of property downtown with no particular plans for the vacant spaces at the moment. If City Hall actually believes all that it says, wouldn't it make more sense to put the new animal park downtown??? It certainly would be cheaper!!!
	“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 8:36am
	Randy, no I do not think talking has any impact at city hall, with school board members, or city council. at a public forum. Few care. I've seen you videos and watch the smirks from Mr. Mulligan and others, most sit and doodle with their heads down. I recall the head of the NCAAP in Middletown having her head taken off for stating Mr. Kohler should be fired by Mr. Mulligan. They "get" section 8 is too high. One day, the numbers will go down, but stating the obvious repeatedly isn't going to change that course. In fact, the strongest voices are the school system on that issue because they use it as a socio-economic excuse for poor performance. Its valuable to raise concerns when those on the other side are willing to listen. City hall, council aren't. You're selling vacuums door to door and running into angry potential customers who slam the door in your face. There is no give and take. For the few brave soul council members who have open forums, that seems to be a good starting point. Mr. Self could speak then about the HUD observations, what about setting that ordinance back so funds are allocated to the streets?

wasteful Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793	Post Options Post Reply Quote wasteful Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:12am
	acclaro your logic on these matters escapes me. I am sure Council gets the fact there is: Lack of Jobs Lack of funds for Infrastructure, your pet project by the way excessive poverty excessive section poor performing schools excessive poor qualityof housing stock the poor reputation of Middletown in the surrounding area the business unfriendly title etc., etc., etc. But with your logic there is no sense repeating any of it and we should all just sit and shut up and let council and the city just go on their merry way of destroying what is left.

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:32am
	wasteful, you must not have read the many suggestions I've offered on this forum and others over the years, and been consistent. Knock yourself out on attending the meetings,, my point is it is quite obvious council doesn't care. If they care, and on some issues there is agreement, then there is no solution. As for alternatives, I've listed many, and in priority from my outlook anyway. Lets go through your list: 1. Jobs- City will say the east end is a work in process, agree or disagree? 2. How many years does it take the council to alter an ordinance "w"- its now been 21 and counting? 3. > Poverty. City position check. They made that the campaign (grant) basis for special federal funding right (singing to the choir). 4. 8- City response- we screwed up, we screwed up, we screwed up! (City council statement btw) 5. Schools- Schools say socioeconomic situation and blame game. City says its a brownfield, old economy just needing time to change to biotech---talk your head off my friend, but this one's been said for 5 years and counting. 6. Poor housing stock. Go drive on DaVinci and look at great hosuing stock sitting for 5 years. 7. Poor reputation of Middletown. Another 5 year city council response: we have a great relationship with surrounding communities, you must like hearing this said over and over. 8. Business unfriendly- City response- we have hired a talented group of economic developers who are worldclass, working tirelessly to build the east end, our future, while not neglecting downtown. You must like the echo chamber. You missed my oint, change can occur, but not through council or bringing up the same issue, and hearing the same response over and over. I've been to Mammoth Cave, and heard my echo before. I don't need to go to a council meeting and hear the echo chamber repeated over and over on the above. Some have suggestted wrongdoing, would that not be a better outlet to have an investigation or a "Schiavone" move, no, not Dave, the brother attorney in Monroe, that you saying things are bad, they say things are good?