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Section 8 Update |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 8:48am |
Middletown City Manager Douglas
Adkins
www.cityofmiddletown.org
Section 8 Update
Good morning. We’ve talked over
the years about what impact our Section 8 subsidized housing had on living
conditions and quality of life. I wanted to talk a little bit about where
we are, how we got here, and what to expect moving forward. Over my years at the city, there have been a lot of incorrect
facts out there on how we came to have so much Section 8. I could spend
hours talking about this, but you probably have better things to do today
than listen to me talk forever about Section 8. So here’s the quick and
easy (and oversimplified) Section 8 lesson for today… Section 8 is a program designed by the U.S. Dept of Housing and
Urban Development to help low income families afford quality
housing. The concept was designed to work like this: A low income
family finds quality affordable housing wherever they wish. Under the
income guidelines, the low income family can afford $400 rent per month.
The cost of quality affordable housing in the area is $1,000 per
month. The voucher pays the remaining $600 each month so that the low
income family can live in good housing. We do and have had poverty in Middletown Public Housing Agency was started in 1978. Up
until 1999, the city had less than 800 Section 8 vouchers in the MPHA program.
From 1999-2003, the city added almost 900 new vouchers to the program, taking
the program up to 1662 total vouchers. This gave us the highest ratio of
subsidized housing units in the State of People have asked over and over how that happened. I honestly
don’t know all of the details, but I can tell you that HUD offered
additional vouchers during that time period and the paperwork requesting those
vouchers for People have blamed my predecessor for a lot of this
problem. I can tell you with certainty that Judy Gilleland not only
didn’t ramp up the program, but she also was the City Manager who sent me to
HUD to start the process of reducing subsidized housing in Not one person in administration, staff or City Council that was
in charge when this happened is still with the city government in any
way. You can be mad at the city for allowing this to happen, but no one
that is here had anything whatsoever to do with the increase in Section 8. With the huge sudden increase in Section 8 vouchers, the
system became warped in That’s not a slam on landlords. We had over 100 landlords
on the Section 8 program when MPHA was in existence. Only a handful did
not maintain their properties. The ramp up was legal and ethical as far
as the landlords were concerned. There were places for 900 new low income
families in In 2010, Judy Gilleland asked me to start talking to HUD about
reducing our Section 8 presence in the city. In 2012, I put
together a 100+ page analysis of the city including the impact the high
saturation of subsidized housing had on the city. If you are really bored
and have about two hours, you can read the 2012 report here: http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/commsvc/section8_analysis_2012_1023.pdf After about three years of discussion with HUD, the decision was
mutually made to shut down MPHA and distribute our vouchers to We agreed to this because a large amount of historical data
shows that Section 8 voucher holders (extremely low income families) typically
stay within a short distance of where they live now. The data showed that
poor families often rely on family members for babysitting, transportation,
etc., and that moving to a new community, while providing better housing, took
them away from what limited support system they had to take care of day care,
etc. A certain number of vouchers are turned in to HUD each
year. Participants get jobs and don’t need the program. People
die. People don’t obey the rules and get kicked off the program.
The data strongly showed that if we transferred the program to Lebanon and
Hamilton, as the Middletown Section 8 vouchers turned over for legitimate
reasons over time, we would slowly see the dispersion of Section 8 families to
other parts of southwest Ohio and work our way back to a more
reasonable distribution of subsidized housing in the city. At the height of MPHA, the city had just over 1,700 vouchers
operating in the City of I was never one to bash Section 8 as a program or to bash its
participants. Like all situations, a small minority of landlords and poor
quality Section 8 tenants tainted the program. The big problem in my eyes
was the volume, not the participants. Most landlords were just trying to
legitimately make a profit. Most Section 8 participants were just trying
to find quality housing for their family. So now we’ve reduced Section 8 by about 45% to date.
Here’s the lingering problem: we have shifted the balance of
homeownership and single family rentals over time to where we have
neighborhoods that approach 80-90% rentals. That’s bad for the
city. Second, we have a large amount of 70+ year old, smaller housing
that is reaching the end of its useful life. What has taken place
is that instead of having a Section 8 family in a $15,000 house, we have an
extremely poor non-subsidized family living in the $15,000 house. The reduction in vouchers hasn’t changed our poverty
rates. It hasn’t changed our crime levels because most Section 8
households were not causing crime. The ones that did cause crime were
removed from the Section 8 program. During my time running MPHA, we
removed about 600 families from the program for rule violations or criminal
activity. If you were a Section 8 problem and you broke the rules, you
were removed. The real problem is the abundance of worn out housing stock
in What is done is done. As I’ve said before, I got the keys
to the city in 2014 and I have to fix us from where we are. I’m
looking forward not back. The housing study being completed is going to recommend large
changes over time in our housing stock to become more competitive in the
area. The recommendations would change our poverty rates over time
and raise property values. The changes are going to require
difficult decisions and we’ll need to carefully think through what changes make
sense for the city and thoughtfully consider and minimize the impact on low
income and minority families. I’m going to need help from all sectors of
the city to get this right. It’s past time to move forward and fix our
neighborhoods. As I get the data from the housing study, I’ll be
rolling it out publicly and I need and want your comments and ideas. Get
in the game. It’s your city. Let’s do it right. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"From 1999-2003, the city added almost 900 new vouchers to the program, taking the program up to 1662 total vouchers."
"I have found no record of a council vote authorizing the increase, and there is no direct documentation that I have seen as to the process that was used to ramp up the program" Vivian, MikeP, spiderjohn....research team.... Do you remember dialogue during this time (1999-2003) between the council at that time, the city manager at that time and CONSOC as to the city being totally aware that the vouchers were going from an acceptable 700 to 1662 and didn't council approve this increase? Just seems to me that the voucher increase was discussed in council meetings and that council voted to fire Consoc for poor performance which led to the formation of the MPHA taking over administration of the program. Might be wrong here. Or....it might have been discussed with council when Adkins was working for Gilleland in the Revitalization Director slot. Can't remember and not sure about this at all. Clarification? Gotta be something within these pages to address this, right? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Research starting points?...Under City Council heading...
Page Topic 5 HUD Review 8 HUD Info 10 HUD 13 Candidate Debates-Section 8 21 Public Comments MPHA CONSOC on the way out? 22 Sect 8 Mtg Tonight 23 Sect 8 Report- 6/10 24 A Lack of Understanding of Impact Sec 8 25 The Sect 8 Beast 33 Is Sec 8 Going To Be Reduced 35 Housing Code Enforcement CONSOC Contract- 5/5/09 36 Midd Jour Finally Gets It 37 When Sec 8 Ever...... 38 Sec 8 Council- Keep As Is Didn't look at all the council mtg threads posted |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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So, the number of HUD Housing Choice (Section 8) Vouchers in Middletown has dropped from 1660+ to 700+ since the transfer of the program to Butler Metro Housing Authority and Warren County Housing Authority over the past 18 months or so? Are we to understand that this 45% reduction took place following HUD's approval of the administrative change? Was there ever any public notification of HUD's approval to reduce 900+ vouchers?
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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The number of vouchers remains the same. They are now managed by Butler and Warren metropolitan housing. The reduction is in the number of vouchers being used within the City limits of Middletown.
Voucher holders choose where to utilize their voucher. That's not a HUD choice or a Middletown choice. |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Viet Vet - Former city staff Ron Olson, Neil Barille and Angela Tucker played principal roles in the escalation of subsidized rental housing in Middletown. I fail to understand why they (apparently) were not contacted to ascertain what took place from 2000-2003. And, it seems bizarre that city council minutes do not reflect proper approvals of these matters. I do recall being shown documents by a subordinate where former Community Development Division staff signed off on these requests. Of course, you remember how I was ultimately forced out of city employment because I knew too much about wasteful/imprudent uses of HUD funds prior to my arrival in January 2007. |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Doug, so only 950 of the 1660+ voucher holders now live in Middletown? It was much, much higher than that when I was directed to obtain a database of participating landlords with attendant property addresses from CONSOC for Marty Kohler, Les Landen and Judy back in early 2008.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Doug, I noted with great interest the recent MJ newspaper article where you said, "So now we’ve reduced Section 8 by about 45% to date." First of all, I never recall anyone ever saying that only 950 of the HCV recipients actually lived in Middletown. As I've noted elsewhere, this was clearly not the case as recently as 2008. Since you've informed us this (apparently) previously unknown statistic, I'd like to know what policies and procedures that you have used to accomplish this? Please tell.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"So, the number of HUD Housing Choice (Section 8) Vouchers in Middletown has dropped from 1660+ to 700+ since the transfer of the program to Butler Metro Housing Authority and Warren County Housing Authority over the past 18 months or so?"
This surprises me based on the talk when the BMHA took over. I seem to remember that there was no way that Middletown could unload 900+ of the 1662 to get to the proper 700ish at the time as it would be too difficult to find any other Butler Cty towns to take those 900+. I thought Middletown would have to live with the 1662. Did they end up forcing other communities to take the 900 or was it voluntary? Can't see any community (except Middletown of course) actually wanting any vouchers at all, much less 900. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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If you get a chance, reread the entire blog post. At the height of MPHA, the city housed more than 1,700 vouchers. We went over our 1662 allocation because voucher holders get to choose where they live. The City government doesn't control that. People from other jurisdictions used their voucher in Middletown to rise our numbers up over our direct allocation.
The 950 number used in the blog post came from asking Butler and Warren metro to run their current numbers of voucher holders living within Middletown. The rest have voluntarily chosen to relocate out of Middletown on their own or new voucher holders have chosen other locations to live rather than Middletown. No policies and no procedures on the part of the City. We anticipated this result when we turned the program over to Butler and Warren and the results have been as expected. We are out of the subsidized housing business. |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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A letter of appreciation should be sent to Butler and Warren for providing ACCURATE data regarding the Section 8 presence in Middletown. After all of the volumes of rhetoric and pontificating from One Donham Plaza since March 2009, it's good that an effort was FINALLY made to verify those Middletown residents currently possessing vouchers compared to what was the case in 2008. Lastly, how many voucher holders of other jurisdictions now live in Middletown? That would also be a good piece of information to have.
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What A City
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 06 2009 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Mr. Adkins:
"voucher holders get to choose where they live. The City government doesn't control that. People from other jurisdictions used their voucher in Middletown" Just curious Mr. Adkins. Given your statement above that voucher holders could choose anywhere they wanted to live, why do you think those voucher holders chose Middletown over towns that offer much more than Middletown does? Other cities have better shopping, better schools, better housing quality, better city operation perhaps, lower taxes. less crime........why chose Middletown? Is there something we don't know that was offered to live here? |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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In summary, how INEXCUSABLE it is that so many city staff work hours, consultant legal fees, etc., etc. were utilized to "take on" HUD to reduce Section 8 rental units from 1660+ to a more equitable figure closer to 800. The fact that key city staff did all of this (at a still undisclosed cost) only to now say that there really are only 950 vouchers in the city. What a royal and costly screw up! What bad publicity for an already impacted Middletown! Which way is it city staff/leaders?
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Isn't this screw up by the City old news by now.
Looks like they now have situation under control and bad actors are longer longer around. |
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What A City
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 06 2009 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Perhaps letting this blow over is the right thing to do 29, but we have had so many city screw-ups the past 30 years that it is beyond letting it go. It is the convenient thing to suggest that the clusters in the city building who created this voucher overabundance are all now gone and we should start anew from this point on. Easy to do that way, but if something isn't done to fix this repeat behavior from our city leaders, it will continue with just a shoulder shrug and all is well mentality. All is not well in this city and this damaged town was created by past and current occupiers of the city building. THEY have run the city into the ground and now Adkins is trying to repair the ailing ghetto they have created. Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY to the citizens if we continue to forgive their clusters? Right now, they constantly screw up and we just let it ride without a whimper (with the exception of the criticism dealt out on this forum). Major apathy from the people doesn't help the cause either. City leaders have done so poorly that a large percentage of people living here no longer care what happens to the town. Simply put, we don't hold our city government accountable. We have a watchdog in place with this forum but we stop there and don't take our issues to the meetings. Why? Partly because when you go to their meetings, they ignore your message of dissatisfaction, cutting you off at the three minute time limit and only listen to their friends (who can talk as long as they wish) Councils and the city managers in the last 40 years have never paid any attention to the people they represent. They do as they please and (Mulligan said this himself), if you don't like it live somewhere else. That demonstrates the man has no class and chooses to use a dictatorial attitude toward the people. Basically a pompous --- who's too big for his britches, a trait that a lot of them have. JMO |
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Well here we go again: Spin city. Here's to the man that knows how to spin it the best. JMO
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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RECENT COMMENTS of Mr. A. published in the MJ and posted on this blog are what's making this sordid mess a topic of conversation once again! It's not a rehash of the past! We're now told that Middletown really doesn't have the overabundance of Section 8 rentals after all in contrast to what he has been saying since 2009. As Vivian Moon would say, that puzzles her three little gray cells.
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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If we don't have the over abundance of Sec 8 vouchers then what's the problem with the older housing stock if they pass inspections and health regulations? Again it seems slanted towards rental stock or did I miss something.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Adkins: "At the height of MPHA, the city had just over 1,700 vouchers operating in the City of
This is a very misleading statement for the general public to
understand in my opinion. The 1,662
vouchers managed by MPHA included Section 8 vouchers located in both Therefore the number of Section 8 vouchers have not really been reduced…but are now counted and split into two different areas. |
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Vivian,
When MPHA was running, we had 1,662+ vouchers living within the city limits of Middletown. The entire program was shut down and split between Warren and Butler. The 950 I've referred to is the number of vouchers living within the city limits in Middletown at this time as reported by both Warren and Butler added together. Apples to apples. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Doug
Please tell me where the CITY LIMITS of Middletown extend to on the East SIde? Are the Robin Springs Apts., 120 units within the city limits of Middletown? I know they are included in the Section 8 count for Warren County. |
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Let me see if I can find a map that lays it out, but yes, Robin Springs is part of the Warren County count.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Jurisdictional boundaries for both Butler and Warren County subsidized rental housing administration is not the issue. Please explain how the number of current vouchers SITUATED WITHIN MIDDLETOWN CITY LIMITS has mysteriously dropped from your reported 1,660+ over the years to 950 in the past 18-24 months? Since you recently reported the 950 unit figure, why was it EVER NECESSARY to undertake such a time-consuming and costly city dispute with HUD over the last number of years using 1,660+ as the benchmark? Which is it?
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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A Consolidated Plan from 2010 shows nearly 600 units in privately‐owned properties that qualify for low income housing tax credits. Robin Springs at the time was listed with 120 units and all 120 units were LI.
Property owners came before City Council several years ago seeking approval for these Tax Credits as part of their complex remodeling. It's my understanding Council approval is required for these tax credits to be approved at the state or federal level That doesn't mean all 120 units are filled with Section 8 Voucher holders. It means that maximum income restrictions apply based on the # of bedrooms/# of residents in a unit. I vaguely recall Council adopting a formal/informal policy for staff that Council would not approve Income Tax Credits for new multi-family construction.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Adkins:
The 950 number used in the blog post came from asking Butler and Warren metro
to run their current numbers of voucher holders living within Middletown. Doug Therefore your research and
your claim of 950 current vouchers must be incorrect. |
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