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Downtown Revitalization Study |
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Posted: Jun 09 2009 at 9:38am |
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Please consider participating in the study described below, and forwarding this announcement to any interested parties. The study is being conducted by Leah DePriest, a graduate student at MU, for her Master's thesis. She wants her course work to have some tangible benefit to our community, and she needs your help to make that happen.
Downtown Stories, Community Visions Downtown Stories, Community Visions is a project organized by Leah DePriest, a graduate student in Urban Planning at Miami University. The project seeks to give the community an active voice in establishing a common vision for the future of downtown Middletown. The community will be invited to share their stories and opinions about downtown Middletown with DePriest, and will also have the opportunity to participate in a series of community forums to continue building their vision for the future of downtown Middletown. Ultimately, the information DePriest gathers will aid city planners and designers in downtown revitalization efforts. Share Your Stories To discover what you value about downtown Middletown, DePriest is gathering your personal stories from the past or present about your positive and negative experiences of the downtown area, as well as your thoughts on what you hope to see in the future in downtown Middletown. With your submission, feel free to submit copies of photos, newspaper articles, or anything else that you feel tells the story of downtown Middletown from your perspective. You are not required to label any documents or include your name in your submission. Please note that no part of your submissions will be returned. You can submit your stories and other documents now via email to: downtownstories@gmail.com. Early in July, information kiosks with drop boxes for submissions will be set up at: Miami Middletown Downtown: 4 North Main St. Middletown City Building: 1 Donham Plaza Miami University Middletown: Johnston Hall Information Desk, 4200 E. University Blvd. Create Your Vision Anyone in the community over the age of 18 is also invited to discuss the information DePriest gathers in a series of collaborative forums. The goal will be to better understand and visualize how these stories can assist downtown revitalization efforts. More information regarding these forums will be provided at the information kiosks. Please consider attending one or all of the forum sessions, held at Miami Middletown Downtown on: Thursday, July 23 5:30-7:30pm Monday, August 3 5:30-7:30pm Tuesday, July 28 5:30-7:30pm Saturday, August 8 2:00-4:00pm If you would like more information about Downtown Stories, Community Visions, please contact: Leah DePriest or David Prytherch. Note: In submitting your story by email, you should realize that email is subject to tampering and thus not a secure form of communication. Although we make every effort to ensure the privacy of email correspondences, it is possible for someone to intercept these communications. If you have questions about your rights as a subject, you may contact the Office for the Advancement of Research and Scholarship at (513) 529-3734 | humansubjects@muohio.edu. |
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Eric Melbye, Director Office of Community Engagement and Service Miami University Middletown www.mid.muohio.edu/community mumccc@muohio.edu |
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Impala SS
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 12 2009 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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Downtown is dead, Middletown is dead.......
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John Beagle
MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Not when we have the Bash going on, its pretty wild down there.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Well that takes care of 32 hrs out of the year, what about the 8728 hrs. that there is no Bash?
What is it going to take to start concentrating on a New Middletown throughout Middletown rather than living in the Past, Downtown?
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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I’m not a frequent poster on these blogs, but I am a frequent reader, and I appreciate the comments made above. I’d just like to add that Leah DePriest, the grad student conducting this project, isn’t doing this simply to complete her Master’s degree at MU. She’s genuinely interested in Middletown—particularly the downtown area—and I believe she would love to see her work have some impact. Next year she’s planning to complete a second Master’s degree in Architecture, and is hoping to continue her current work in Middletown through that degree, as well. (Personally, I’m hoping she’ll join me and the other people working on the Castell/Sebald building project and/or the United Way Place Matters projects.)
So, regardless of what you think about downtown Middletown’s past, present, or future, I encourage you to email downtownstories@gmail.com and expand on the comments you’ve all made here. They’re all valuable to Leah’s efforts to do something positive for Middletown. I think such an effort is worth supporting. |
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Eric Melbye, Director Office of Community Engagement and Service Miami University Middletown www.mid.muohio.edu/community mumccc@muohio.edu |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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cool, Eric
I have nothing special to relate, however I have lived here forever and have lived through it all. If the lady needs anything or wants to ask me anything, please have her look me up.
We need help from everywhere.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Mr. Melbye: While I wish this young lady well in all of her future endeavors, this sounds like another “answer in search of a question”!!! That is, it is like all past efforts for downtown Middletown. It starts with someone already convinced that it can be revived in its present (or nearly its present) configuration, and actually seeks only confirmation that downtown can be what they have already decided it can be--simply because they want it to be!!! Of course, the answer is always that the only thing preventing their dream from reaching fruition is a lack of other people’s money, since no one successful enough to be able to finance any such schemes with their own money is at the same time reckless enough to bankroll any of the “visions” that so many seem to foresee in their tea leaves. And then there is always City Hall, ever at the ready to squash any reasonable attempt at development that has a chance at success that does not include the Camelot-like scenarios floating in the nether regions of their friends’ minds. What really is needed is someone just like Ms. DePriest, but without the preconceived notions and biases, to perform such a study. Someone who would look at the facts, and only the facts. Someone who would study the “former” downtown Middletown, and then objectively report any and all logical conclusions reached. We need a true prognosticator to tell us the truth, and not what he, or whoever sponsors him or her, wants to hear. In fact, we must be told the truth, whether it is good or bad, expected or surprising, welcome or foreboding. In actuality, I would be surprised if such studies have not been performed already. They are called “market analyses” and all large (and many small) companies have them performed BEFORE they invest in an area.. We have not heard about them because the ones who have had them performed likely did not like the results and have decided not to invest here. Certainly all Middletonians are not as naive as those at City Hall appear to be, and think that, say, B. Dalton will came running just because we tell them that we have a great place for a bookstore??? Certainly we don't all believe that the honchos from, say, Hard Rock Cafe or The Gap just drive around through small towns and suddenly stop and say: "WOW, this looks like a good spot for us!" It is just not how the real world works, and all of the wishing that PRISM and the Downtown Partnership, and City Hall can muster will not make it so!!!
All of this is not to say that there is not a good use for the former downtown Middletown. I am certain that there is. We just have to open our minds to all options, instead of limiting ourselves to the ones desired by the (wanna-be) movers and shakers.
We cannot continue as we have in the past, pursuing islands in the sky that no venture capitalist would touch, using public funds just to try to make a few people happy.
If we keep doing the same things, we will keep reaching the same results. The free market will solve this problem for us, if only we will allow it to do so, but that means getting, and keeping, City Hall out of the way!!! And that means starting with changes this November!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Eric If CDBG Funds are avaible for downtown projects then why not the Middletown Cemetery? |
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Smokey Burgess
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 172 |
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Dear Miss Vivian -
The so-called reasons(?) that the Queen of Middletown gives you are bogus! The City of Middletown has plenty of HUD money. In fact, they have hired temporary employees on top of the existing staff plus Building Inspection personnel that are "on loan" due to the paltry number of new and remodeling permits. If the Queen says the color blue is really green, then we are to accept her statement as being true? Tell the truth Queen and make HUD funds available to restore the Historic Pioneer Cemetery vault.
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Mike,
These are great comments, and exactly the sort of thing Leah could use in her study. Please consider cutting and pasting your comments into an email to downtownstories@gmail.com! I understand how this effort could look like yet another “answer in search of a question,” though I disagree with that view. The question Leah is exploring in this first stage of the study is simply, “How do people perceive of downtown Middletown?” Later this summer, she’ll lead a series of public forums in which people can further discuss their responses to that question, and consider ways their opinions and ideas can assist in downtown revitalization efforts. That includes the ongoing efforts of everyone—community groups, businesses, and concerned individuals as well as city officials. This study isn’t being organized by any part of Middletown’s government, and neither Leah nor any Middletown city official is imposing a vision for downtown revitalization onto the study. In other words, there aren’t any hidden agendas, and there aren’t any preconceptions or biases beyond the notions that something can be done with downtown Middletown, and that the people here have valuable input on that. Even if you disagree with those notions, your input is valuable to Leah’s study. You’re correct that different types of market analyses have already been conducted by/for Middletown, and that seeing those analyses would be useful. Leah’s project isn’t really a market analysis, though. It’s not being conducted by a corporation, and it’s more open-ended and community-oriented, gathering opinions from the community rather than collecting hard data and statistics. Some personal responses, separate from Leah’s work: I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is good use for downtown Middletown. MUM didn’t set up shop at Miami Middletown Downtown because the abundant foot traffic and thriving business/cultural environment would make MMD an instant success. We established a location downtown to contribute to efforts to create that sort of community. I’ve met many individuals and worked with business owners and community groups who share that commitment, and it’s encouraging to know I’m not alone. It’s tough going to say the least, but I believe it’s worth the effort. I also strongly agree with your comment that “we have to open our minds to all options,” and “if we keep doing the same things, we will keep reaching the same results.” I would add that opening our minds and trying something different involves changing our perceptions of downtown Middletown, and Middletown as a whole. Personally, I believe that focusing on the many problems and challenges we face and expecting city officials to solve everything for us isn’t the most effective way to create the positive change we desire. That perception creates a sort of victim mentality that thinks, “Middletown has too many problems to fix, and the City isn’t doing enough to solve them. Middletown is dead.” That perception is understandable. It’s also not very productive. (After all, even Forbes hasn’t proclaimed Middletown is dead…!) I believe that if we focus on discovering the assets and resources we already have available rather than the mountain of problems we face, we can use those assets to address specific problems we want to solve. We can’t solve all the problems at once, of course, but we can take them on in smaller chunks, step by step, and do some good that way. |
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Eric Melbye, Director Office of Community Engagement and Service Miami University Middletown www.mid.muohio.edu/community mumccc@muohio.edu |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Eric- just gotta make some comments for understanding pertaining to your post. You state that "focusing on the problems we face.... we can't expect the city to fix all of our problems". "We can use these assets to address specific problems we want to solve"- OK-- now- let's talk about some of our problems in relation to the the city fixing them and we, the citizens not waiting for the city, but solving them ourselves. Item 1 Street Repair- please explain how the citizen can take this problem into their own hands and bypass the city to fix them??? The citizen doesn't have the funds, resources nor expertise to do this task properly. Item #2- overabundance of Section 8 housing- should we, the citizen collect petitions to present to Council demanding that Section 8 be reduced or eliminated in town? If we did, do you think Council would listen to us? How would the average citizen go about getting Section 8 out of this city? The city controls this program and won't allow the citizens to take it over to shut it down. Item #3- Meaningful, decent paying jobs- How would the citizens go about setting up a system to send out the "beacon" to attract decent jobs? What method would us citizens use to "take matters into our own hands" to bypass the city's lack of effort in bringing in more jobs? Item #4- City prioritization on budget- how could us mere citizens force the city leaders to correctly prioritize the order in which to spend the city's money? We citizens could collect the signatures of all 51,000 people in this town and the city government would still ignore the will of the people. I could use other examples but you get the jest of the message here. The only way that we can fix the decisions/direction of this town is to replace all of the problem children on Council and the school board and then, force resignations from the city manager on down and replace those people with ones that will do the business of the people correctly and problem solve. To try and solve the city's problems with the current group of leaders is to bloody ones head against the wall. They hold the cards because they control the decision making system, the money and ignore the citizens wishes for their city. Until the trash is taken out, it is futile for the people to try to fix the problems as the trash is the obstacle to actually solving those problems. Taking matters into our own hands won't get the job done. Bypassing the city to solve the problems won't work either. As soon as we made an attempt, they would provide the roadblocks to success. We need cooperation from them to help solve problems. We will not get that. JMO
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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VietVet,
You raise a lot of good points and difficult questions. I certainly don’t have all the answers. And before I say anything else, I want to clarify that I’m not proposing the community can/should always bypass the city government and take matters into its own hands. As you said, we need cooperation from the City to solve problems. What I am proposing is that the community isn’t powerless, and there are assets in the community that can be used to address some problems. We’ve all seen evidence of that in Middletown and right here on these blog pages. Some of the problems you mention—street repair, for example—might be too difficult for the community alone to resolve (though the idealist in me believes anything is possible). But I wonder what might be accomplished if the community rethinks how it approaches some of the problems we face. Rather than waiting for one group of people to resolve all of the community’s problems, what might happen if a group of community members actively sought out assets in the community that could address one problem at a time, one step at a time? Here’s a hypothetical example. I’m borrowing this example from someone I had a recent conversation with about community-building: Let’s say a community is struggling with crime and a high dropout rate among high school students. The community could petition the local government to increase policing in certain neighborhoods and demand the resignation of the school superintendent. If that doesn’t work, the community might simply fall to complaining about the police force, the local government, bad teachers, bad parenting, etc. The community focuses solely on the problem, with no hope of resolution. If the focus can shift to assets in the community, someone might draw attention to that one community member—let’s say she’s a retired school teacher—who helps a few of her neighbors by providing some after-school activities or tutoring. That teacher is a community asset, and a small group of community members can work with the teacher to build on what the teacher is already doing: A few other teachers are located and a small after-school program is set up that keeps kids off the streets and continuing their education. The program draws more attention, and grows. Will it completely solve the problem of crime and high dropout rates throughout the community? Maybe not. But it’s a big step in the right direction, and with some organization and dedication, it could have a strong impact over time. The idea is that questions like “How do we create meaningful, decent paying jobs in Middletown?” or “How do we fill all of those vacant buildings downtown?” can be easier to tackle if, instead of focusing on all that we have lost, how we’re suffering, and how other people aren’t helping us the way we think they should, we seek out existing assets and resources in the community to build on, and break a problem down into more manageable pieces. How can we create a few meaningful jobs? How can we fill this one vacant building? Even that can be difficult to accomplish, but as I’ve been repeating here, I think it’s worth the effort. Success—even a small success—breeds success. I’m certainly trying, and I’m glad to say I’m not alone. Another useful approach, I think, is to reconsider the questions we ask about the problems we face. Sometimes we ask questions about problems that may not be the real problems we want to address. For example, asking, “How do we eliminate section 8 housing?” assumes that section 8 housing is the main problem, when in fact it’s only the perceived cause of another problem the asker really wants to address: a school’s “emergency watch” status, or a neighborhood’s physical appearance. (I’m not suggesting this applies to your question, VietVet, I’m just making an illustration.) If we ask the right question, we’re better able to locate the resources that can help us build toward a solution. How can we recast the questions we have? What assets and resources exist in our community that we can build on? How can we use our assets to innovate solutions to the needs of the community? |
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Eric Melbye, Director Office of Community Engagement and Service Miami University Middletown www.mid.muohio.edu/community mumccc@muohio.edu |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Mr. Melbye: Please allow me to respond point-by-point. I will do so by interspersing my responses throughout your post, using a different font and color. Mike, These comments are now in the public domain. Ms. DePriest can feel free to use them as she wishes. One would hope that she would feel behooved to use them in context.
Please recall your statements: “ She’s genuinely interested in Middletown—particularly the downtown area—…” and: “I’m hoping she’ll join me and the other people working on the Castell/Sebald building project…”. [emphasis added] These remarks indicate, at least to me, a definite bias already built into the study. I am sure that no one will be surprised when the study reveals that the former downtown Middletown would have a glorious future in store for it--if only the City would chip in several more millions of the taxpayers’ dollars!The question Leah is exploring in this first stage of the study is simply, “How do people perceive of downtown Middletown?” Perhaps the “first stage” of the study should be to recognize that the area to which you/she refer is no longer “downtown Middletown”! Please allow me to quote Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006:downtown Chiefly US, Canad, & NZ Noun the central or lower part of a city, esp. the main commercial area Adverb towards, to, or into this area And also to quote The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.:down·town (dountoun) n. The lower part or the business center of a city or town. adv. (dountoun) To, toward, or in the lower part or the business center of a city or town. adj. (dountoun) Of, relating to, or located downtown. Unfortunately, the area within the so-called “urban core district” of Middletown simply no longer fits the definition of “downtown.” Later this summer, she’ll lead a series of public forums in which people can further discuss their responses to that question, and consider ways their opinions and ideas can assist in downtown revitalization efforts. Here we have also been given a clue that the BIAS of this study IS toward the “revitalization of downtown!” That includes the ongoing efforts of everyone—community groups, businesses, and concerned individuals as well as city officials. This study isn’t being organized by any part of Middletown’s government, and neither Leah nor any Middletown city official is imposing a vision for downtown revitalization onto the study. In other words, there aren’t any hidden agendas, and there aren’t any preconceptions or biases beyond the notions that something can be done with downtown Middletown, and that the people here have valuable input on that. Even if you disagree with those notions, your input is valuable to Leah’s study. With all due respect, Mr. Melbye, you are tripping over your own words here. The ONLY thing under consideration by anyone, either now or for the future is “the revitalization of this area as a ‘downtown’!” As long as we keep trying this over and over, we will reach the same result over and over. Deny the imposition of a vision all you would like. Reject the fact that there is a bias until AK General Offices return if you so desire. Regardless of how long you care to ignore the facts, those ARE the FACTS, just as YOU have restated them again while trying to hide from them. This study has a built in bias, as all past studies have had. They know the answer that is desired, they are just looking for a way to ask the question so that they can provide that answer! You’re correct that different types of market analyses have already been conducted by/for Middletown, and that seeing those analyses would be useful. Leah’s project isn’t really a market analysis, though. It’s not being conducted by a corporation, and it’s more open-ended and community-oriented, gathering opinions from the community rather than collecting hard data and statistics. I understand!! And I understand why it can NOT deal in hard data and statistics. Collecting and analyzing hard data and statistics will NOT provide any “question” to which your “answer” can apply. Any unbiased marketing study will inevitably yield the result that: The former downtown Middletown cannot be revitalized into a prosperous “downtown” any time in the foreseeable future! Some may say that I am “negative”, I say that I am facing reality. If the former downtown Middletown could be a viable location for profitable business or commerce, WHY have none of the PROFESSIONAL developers been knocking on the door to buy property for ONE DOLLAR, and take the generous subsidies and incentives that this, and previous, city councils have offered??? NO one has answered this question that I have been asking since 1999!!! But I can answer it. It’s those pesky market studies!!! No matter how they analyze them, the answer is the same. And if the Pros don’t think that they can do it, what makes (and I’m being kind here) the “amateurs” think that they can??? Some personal responses, separate from Leah’s work: I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is good use for downtown Middletown. MUM didn’t set up shop at Miami Middletown Downtown because the abundant foot traffic and thriving business/cultural environment would make MMD an instant success. We established a location downtown to contribute to efforts to create that sort of community. I’ve met many individuals and worked with business owners and community groups who share that commitment, and it’s encouraging to know I’m not alone. It’s tough going to say the least, but I believe it’s worth the effort. More power to you, sir. I wish you good fortune and success, I truly do! I admire your mettle, but question your judgment. Who was it that said “Chance favors the prepared mind.”? I also strongly agree with your comment that “we have to open our minds to all options,” and “if we keep doing the same things, we will keep reaching the same results.” I would add that opening our minds and trying something different involves changing our perceptions of downtown Middletown, and Middletown as a whole. Personally, I believe that focusing on the many problems and challenges we face and expecting city officials to solve everything for us isn’t the most effective way to create the positive change we desire. Now we are on the same page again!!! Do you know another grad student…one in economics? It would be interesting for someone to go back over the City’s books, all the way back to about 1975. Then tally up every last dime of tax money of any sort spent on trying to revitalize downtown Middletown as an urban business/commercial center (read that as “a downtown”), and convert those dollars to 2009 dollars. My bet is that it will total well over $100 MILLION! That perception creates a sort of victim mentality that thinks, “Middletown has too many problems to fix, and the City isn’t doing enough to solve them. Middletown is dead.” That perception is understandable. It’s also not very productive. I agree, and just how many more TENS of MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars must we spend to “revitalize downtown” as “downtown” before THAT becomes “unproductive”? (After all, even Forbes hasn’t proclaimed Middletown is dead…!) I believe that if we focus on discovering the assets and resources we already have available rather than the mountain of problems we face, we can use those assets to address specific problems we want to solve. We can’t solve all the problems at once, of course, but we can take them on in smaller chunks, step by step, and do some good that way. I agree, but unfortunately, City Hall does NOT see it that way. They insist on recycling the same old ideas, from the same old people, at the same old clandestine meetings, and slip them by the public as shiftily as possible and then act surprised by the results. Middletown is not dead, but it IS being murdered…and it IS “murder by undesired assisted suicide!” ____________________________________ Mike Presta, Citizen and Civic watchdog |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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wow
so much typing to say so little
kinda goes along with Mike's font/color choice.
hey--bring the lady in, and help her with her study any way possible.
this negative "welcome" displayed here ought to be enough to convince her to pick some other more appreciative area.
ANYTHING that creates ANY positivre activity or business growth in the area formerly known as "downtown" is a big + for everyone within the city, especially the western part and those coming accross the west middletown bridge.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Spider if you want to Grow the Downtown I have no problem with that. The problem comes in as to why in the past 5 years, that I have been here, has no developer been clamoring to put their money and time into the Downtown area.
If rebuilding Downtown is such a hot idea why hasn't a developer approached the City or the City been able to find one?
I am all for Private money developing Downtown, I am against the City putting funds and resources into Downtown, there are far to many other issues that need attention.
The City is presently unable to take care of it's parks, infrastructure has been ignored for years, etc. As Ms Gilleland said they don't even have the People to water the old flower beds. They have a significant number of issues they need to deal with and as far as I can see you don't have 20,000 people clamoring for downtown to be re-built when the rest of the city is deteriorating.
In the next census, 2010, you will most likely have the City of Middletown being saddled with a Poverty rate in excess of 25% and possibly 30%+. This will be a death nail for a city of this size and will be printed on every Market analysis done by any company looking for a location.
The City needs to deal with it's Section 8 and Poverty issue as if it is an emergency.
I would really like someone to do a economic feasibility study, that is independent and shown to the citizens, as to the money and time needed to redo downtown and then throw the City into the study and then throw a private developer into the mix and see who comes out on top.
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Mike,
Thanks for providing even more thought-provoking comments. It looks like you and I will have to agree to disagree on some points, which is fine. The productive discussion itself is worthwhile--in fact, for me, it's the whole point. The comment you made about the definition of "downtown" not applying to downtown Middletown anymore is really interesting. Your comment can spark an interesting discussion of what the word "downtown" means, or ought to mean, beyond the dictionary definition, and how the Middletown community would define that word for itself. What can/should a "downtown Middletown" look and act like, wherever it might be located? What should it be able to do for itself, for the city as a whole, for the region, etc.? Is a downtown Middletown even possible anywhere in the city? Why/why not? You commented on a built-in bias in Leah's study, which seems to contradict what I said about there not being a bias. I think it's important to clarify that for the sake of Leah's work. I obviously have certain biases of my own about downtown Middletown, which I've made pretty clear in this blog thread. In writing about Leah's study, I've tried to separate information about the study from own personal feelings about downtown and its revitalization. Maybe I haven't done a good enough job of that. In any case, my personal biases aren't driving the study--it's Leah's study, not mine. I'm only helping her to spread the word, encouraging folks to participate, and later, providing a physical space for her public forums. And I have no intention of forcing my personal agenda in the public forums Leah will hold. I'm going to listen actively, and absorb and learn all I can. I'm sure that what I hear will be a valuable aid in my own and others' revitalization efforts, though again, that bias isn't a part of the study itself. I wouldn't say that discussing how the study might be used for revitalization efforts is a bias, either. I would say that's part of the study's purpose. That probably sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference. The project isn't attempting to push the community toward Leah's or anyone's specific vision of what the downtown area can/should be. Now that would definitely be a bias. Leah's study is simply attempting to gather the community's thoughts on that vision, and to generate some productive discussion on that point, just as we've been doing here. Those who believe downtown Middletown isn't or can't be a downtown, or can't/shouldn't be revitalized, bring a valuable perspective to that discussion. I hope they choose to participate in Leah's study in some fashion. On the other hand, I think your comment (if I understand it correctly) that the study assumes downtown revitalization is possible/desired is very interesting, very thought-provoking. An assumption isn't a bias, but I see your point, nonetheless. What I'm hearing from you is a deep level of frustration about the whole concept of downtown revitalization, as past efforts don't seem to have been successful--why keep trying something that hasn't worked? (Am I hearing you correctly?) I won't restate my personal response to that--I think it's obvious by now. But I will re-emphasize that that perspective is valuable to the discussion of downtown revitalization, because it raises important questions like the ones I noted above. I'm glad you were able to draw that assumption out--thank you. Last: an apology to all for my long-winded posts, here--I'm sure they're getting old. Among other things, I'm a writer and English professor, and I do my thinking on the keyboard. This discussion has been very educational for me, and I appreciate everyone's comments very much. |
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Eric Melbye, Director Office of Community Engagement and Service Miami University Middletown www.mid.muohio.edu/community mumccc@muohio.edu |
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randy
MUSA Official Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Some local businesses owners are trying to do what the can downtown. Look at Sheila Chambers, owner of Another Time at the corner of Central Avenue and Clinton Street in downtown Middletown. Want to read what I mean Check it out .Middletown Store Owner Organizes Sales Event
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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hey pacman--I pretty much agree with yer post!!
the private sector/profit incentive is the ONLY way for anything MEANINGFUL and CONTINUAL to take root and be successful
Our city leadership(past and current--Council/Admin + the same old "movers and shakers")
has not accomplished much other than to waste tens of millions of $$$ and the last 30 years. They obviously have no answer at this time either, and no funds to continue the tinkering(as evidenced by the city manager's request to the MCF to fund a "downtown czar"). Bringing more Section 8 to the Castell, Kresge and other old business structures is not a long-term answer to anything other than producing more blight,crime and poverty to an area struggling to replace just that with a viable mid-scale business community.
When the time is right, things will happen in that area. It CAN be a center of activity again, and possibly a key business center(since currently we have NO city business center).
As for watering the new flowers and plants, we don't have to worry about that since most have already been stolen.
The area formerly known as "downtown" is really in no worse economic condition than any other shopping center/area of the city. They are ALL struggling and have a high % of vacancies. You can barely give business properties away at this time.
Mr.Melbye and Mr.Presta can debate semantics and definitions as long as they choose.
In the mean time, maybe we can help the lady with her study. She could very well have a conclusion that eventually makes a difference!
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Has there really been talk of section 8 housing in the Castell building?
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Mr. Melbye, Perhaps the problem lies in our respective understandings of the word “revitalization”. I agree with Mr. Webster and his colleagues that “revitalization” means: The coming again into activity and prominence; the revival of trade; to give new vitality or vigor to; to give new life to; a resurgence, a revival; an updating; or a revivification. The commonality, at least as I see it, of all of these shades of meaning is that the “core” or “essence” of that which is being “revitalized” does not change, but somehow new life or vigor is breathed into it. The former “downtown Middletown” was indeed a hub of business and commerce! There once were professions, trades, commercial transactions, services, and offices of every description in this area. This was the “hub” of our fair city, but like it or not, it no longer is. We have spent decades of time and over $100,000,000 in 2009 dollars (at least in my humble opinion) trying to “revitalize” this area, even though not a single professional developer has been willing to “bite off a chunk” using strictly their own funds to participate! Is there ANY point at all when prudent people should say: “Enough is enough, we must open our minds to ideas OTHER that ‘revitalization of downtown’.”? Is there ANY length of time, or ANY amount of the taxpayers’ money that can be expended before we face “realization” instead of “revitalization”? Will it EVER be acceptable try ANY “NEW” ideas? And please consider the other older areas of the city. For example, Crawford Street used to be a bustling, prosperous street of commerce. It no longer is. Why is there not the same passion to “revitalize” Crawford Street? What about the area bounded by Wycoff, Sherman, Moore, and South? This was once a thriving neighborhood with a gas station, a repair shop, a sundries shop, or a grocery store on every other corner! Why not try to “revitalize” that neighborhood? Then there is Central Avenue from Crawford to the old Lincoln School building. This stretch of street had doctors, lawyers, dentists, portrait studios, retail establishments, pharmacies, banks, barber shops, restaurants, beauty salons, saloons, and even a lumber yard! In fact, this area had all of the things you now want “downtown”, and more! Where is the call to “revitalize” this area? I could go on and on, since there were areas of “neighborhood downtowns” all over this city, and in Blue Ball, and in Mayfield, and in Meadowlawn, and in Amanda, and in nearly every other area of our city! Yet, to this day, some of these areas do not even have curbs or sidewalks. But we have demolished and rebuilt the curbs and sidewalks “downtown” with NO assessments how many times? Regardless, I am sure that more studies will “prove” that we must try again (and again and again) to restore the former downtown to its Olde Tyme glory, until everyone leaves this town except those insisting on “revitalizing” the former downtown. Who will pay “tote the note” when that happens? PS: Please be as long-winded as you like. I enjoy a civil discussion, and those who don't want to read it, certainly don't have to do so. And don't worry about Spider! Before all is said and done, he will have chimed in. (Probaably on BOTH sides, if this lasts more than one day! ) |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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correct Mike!
I agree with your view of Central Ave.BEYOND the glorified "downtown" area.
I would know a lot about the areas you mention, since I have operated businesses on Supthin/Sherman, Central Ave, and was very successful in the old REAL downtown area until I was forced to re-locate for the mall.
Crawford Street---wow
Anyone concerned about our community and knowledgeable of prior conditions should take a drive through that area. Enough to either make you cry or leave you speechless.
Yes Mr.P--I CAN change my mind, and at least keep it OPEN, which is a very foreign concept to many around here. Kinda reminds me of the one-track "good ole boy" network/club often mentioned, with the exception that the "good ole boy" group on the message boards is entrencheed in a completely opposite close-minded mentality.
Castell,Sebald,Kresge,Reed Klopp---I get those old building names confused any more.
Which has proposed a slew of 500-1000 sq.ft. apartments and studio units?
And just whom would you expect to live in those conditions/locations other than low-income or Section 8?
Let's get real here!
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Eric Melbye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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How we choose to define "revitalization" is another interesting question, Mike. Do we attempt to resuscitate the old, create something entirely new, or try a little of both? Personally, I'm open to discussing any and all possibilities, though I'm not convinced a 100% recreation of the past is even possible, much less desirable.
As an English prof, picking apart semantics is a habit I can't help, so Spider's comment didn't bother me. In fact, I like what he's said here. Then again, since he's been so supportive of Leah's study, Mike, I'm clearly biased towards his opinions I don't know why other previously-thriving areas of Middletown aren't receiving the attention they deserve in terms of revitalization discussions. I'm sure that because the downtown area was once the beating heart of the city, it gets more attention now, but that doesn't mean other neighborhoods should be ignored. It would be great to see some organized efforts in the neighborhoods you mentioned, maybe something similar to what the United Way Place Matters project is doing now. If no professional developers have shown serious interest in investing in downtown Middletown, and if the community wants to see some sort of revitalization there (however you want to define revitalization), then one question to ask might be, what new things can the community do to address the need? While we may want the City to be involved in those efforts in some meaningful, productive way, a community is more than just its city officials. What resources exist in our community that the community could leverage to create positive change? |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Mr. Melbye whether the plan was low income housing or not I am not sure but this was a plan some years ago.Castell Building plan draws concernResidential units less than 750 square feet
Plans for a nearly $2 million renovation of the Castell Building on Central Avenue has raised some eyebrows of other downtown business owners. The project, which was approved Wednesday by the Planning Commission in a 4-2 vote, would include commercial space in the building's first floor and up to 24 for-rent residential units of varying sizes all less than 750 square feet.
"I just believe in downtown," said 3rd Ward Councilman Anthony Marconi, whose company floated the proposal to the city's Planning Commission.
Although he is a partner of M & D Central Properties, Marconi - who also is the City Council liaison to the Planning Commission - listened quietly Wednesday while his partner, Ron Decker, delivered the presentation for the building that once was part of the enclosed City Centre Mall.
Planning Commission members Perry Thatcher and Tom Williams cast the dissenting votes.
The renovation plan, which calls for six studio apartments and 18 one-bedroom apartments, has nearby business owners concerned over the proposed size of the units, which range from 540 to 740 square feet.
"If it's professional people (living there), then I'm 150 percent for it," said Jay Moorman, co-owner of BeauVerre-Riordan stained glass studio, which occupies a nearby Central Avenue building. "But if it's low income, then I'm not.
"The message that we got when we took this undertaking was that it was going to be upscale," he said. "(500 square feet) is about the size of a motel room."
Although the city has a 1,000-square-foot minimum requirement for multi-family residential units, Decker said Wednesday it's unlikely the proposal would change.
Part of the plan for the new development includes amendments to the city's minimum requirements because it would be located in an urban setting.
"If we had to approach numbers like that (1,000-square-foot units), it's going to kill this," Decker said. "We are not in that type of environment. You might be able to do that in downtown Cincinnati, but not in downtown Middletown."
The project will go before City Council later this month for a requested change to the area's zoning.
"This building, at least architecturally, has a prominence downtown," said Planning Director Marty Kohler. "This is a fairly key building that we would like to see developed."
Contact Dave Greber at (513) 705-2840, or e-mail him at dgreber@coxohio.com.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Mr. Melbye: I am flabbergasted (and few people get “flabbergasted” anymore) that an “English prof” with a self-described habit of “picking apart semantics” can question the definitions of “revitalization” that I provided, But be that as it may. You ask “Do we attempt to resuscitate the old, create something entirely new, or try a little of both?” Do we attempt to resuscitate the old? We have tried that, to the tune of over ten million of the taxpayers’ dollars and ten years of time with “Crossroads 2000”. Do we create something entirely new? We have tried that, to the tune of many millions of the taxpayers’ dollars and decades of time with “City Centre”. Do we try a little of both? We have tried that. Before, during, and after both City Centre and Crossroads 2000 we have tried all sorts of studies and plots and plans and committees and the “Downtown Partnership” and the “Historic District” and surveys and murals and water features and clock towers, and everything else except one thing! Anytime that anyone has proposed to do something with their own money, that plan has been REJECTED! That is the one thing that we have REFUSED to try! My suggestion is that only proposals brought forward by entities with enough confidence to back their vision with their own financing should be considered. All others should be summarily rejected. There should be no more gambling with public funds. I certainly agree with your assertion that “the downtown area was once the beating heart” of our fair city. I hope that you will agree with me that it is no longer true! If “revitalization” means bulldozing part or all of the area in order to “redevelop” it, then so be it. But if we are fortunate enough for someone with vision, and enough faith and capital to implement that vision, to appear-- we must be courageous and forceful enough to keep City Hall and their friends out of the way!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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I have a question.
Last year we spent about $40,000 to relandscape the "Welcome to Middletown" sign at 122 and Towne Mall Blvd.
Then we have the two signs at University Blvd and Central Ave at the old train station "Welcome to Downtown Middletown".
So where does the "Downtown" area begin and end?
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