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Saturday, September 7, 2024 |
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Bond Issue |
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409 ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: Aug 03 2013 at 12:37am |
From MJ:
Campaign begins for Middletown bond issue By Hannah Poturalski
Staff Writer MIDDLETOWN — Anyone interested in helping a grassroots effort to support a bond issue for Middletown City Schools this November can attend an informational meeting on Monday. Katie McNeil, school board member, said everyone is welcome to a 7 p.m. meeting Monday at First United Methodist Church, 120 South Broad Street, Middletown. Monday also marks the three-month countdown to the Nov. 5 election. “We need citizens and people who believe school facilities are important for the community and our children,” McNeil said. In recent weeks, the school board approved placing a $55 million bond issue on the Nov. 5 ballot. The 3.95-mill bond issue and 0.26-mill permanent improvement levy would support construction of a new middle school next to the high school and renovations to the high school, including a new competition gym, auditorium and additional classroom space. Revenue from the bond issue will be coupled with a $40 million share paid by the Ohio School Facilities Commission’s Classroom Facilities Assistance Program. During the kick-off meeting Monday, a consultant from Columbus will talk about past successful levy campaigns and Joe DeLuca from Fanning Howey architecture firm will outline Middletown’s facilities master plan. McNeil said she’s hoping for a good turnout of residents to help lead the levy campaign with community outreach and marketing. McNeil said the bond issue information will also be available at a booth during National Night Out from 5 to 9 p.m. Tuesday at Sunset Park, 201 Bellemonte St. Residents can also email VoteMiddies@gmail.com with questions about the November election. |
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Miss Kitty ![]() MUSA Immigrant ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct 29 2012 Status: Offline Points: 61 |
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Do not vote for ANY bond issue. We pay to many taxes as it is now...
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Bocephus ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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A new levy along with the future quadrupling of city water rates I think will be the straw that broke this camels back, any section 8 slumlords out there interested in buying a house that's slightly upside down on its mortgage ?? |
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Is there no end to the school people asking for more? Some of the highest property taxes in the area and the lowest performing schools. Inverted. The school board only listens to those who support their cause. They never consider what impact their wishes have upon the working people of this city. The property owners are paying too many taxes on property that has decreased in value and won't sell......but they don't care about those things, do they.
(This is for you chmoore).....and shouldn't they be raising those pesky indicators that have been stuck on 6 out of 26 for years and showing more progress than to be at the bottom of the performance list ![]() There you go bud. Got that out of the way for August. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Simply drive down Thornhill and the nice side of Curryer and see how houses sold at 50% of what they were on market.
When Becker was put in place as city manager and failed to get the 2.0% tax levy passed, they brought in his friends that sit on council, Mulligan(s), Picard, Mort. They fully intend to raise taxes to 2.25%, next stop at 2.0, and the school levy. They put the school admin in city hall so they could share voter block data. A 600,000 house in Scottsdale AZ has property tax lower than a 125,000 house in Middletown. Better wake up people. Pass these levies, and your house will be sitting for a decade; bad enough its 6 years today. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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TonyB ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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It actually seems that Middletown City Council and Public Schools have combined on a strategy to insure "lifetime residence" in the city. Just make the taxes so high and the property value so low that no one can afford to sell their house and take such a huge loss. That way, there is a captive crowd to support all of the "grand ideas" that come out of city hall!
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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TonyB, that truly is the strategy of the city of Middletown and school system.
I know there are houses in Middletown, the court, the county treasurer office, and the city, target in tandem, to monitor foreclosure and pass the leads to LLC's, friends of city hall, to purchase. I also agree, even if you were joking, it is a fact, the city is attempting to raise rates and taxes so high, you can't get out, you can't sell your property, and are stuck in quicksand. That is THEIR strategy. Hell, to beat it all---these voting blocking will give Marcia Andrew, Chris Fiora, and Katie McNeil a tax levy that passes, the city a 2.25% tax rate, and only those like the docs, attorneys that have been here all their life, and those feasting off the city in the parasitic relationship, around. Disgusting isn't it. And what you said, maybe in jest....is very true. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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over the hill ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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I don't think Mort or Picard served on council together. Mort was brought in by Judy,BFF'S you know.
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Paul Nagy ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Just for the record,Chris Fiora hasn't been on the school board for months. He and his family moved to West Chester.
pn |
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chmoore1 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Vet: thanks for using your "trump card" early. This way we don't have to wonder when it's going to happen. It makes everyone so edgy. Good choice! Now, see how easy that is, and how helpful for the entire group? "6 out of 26 indicators"....it does have a nice ring to it. chmoore
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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You bet ch. Glad to help those on the other side of the fence. ![]() |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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chmoore1 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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I'd say...when I get to spend $8.00/month more on my taxes so we can have a new middle school and RENOVATED----which people talk about on here---high school. Get rid of that giant elephant of the 90 year old "MHS" which is so outdated and inadequate and get a replacement at no-cost (the state owes us $40 million which will be completely lost if we do nothing. There...that ought to start your head to burst. (JK) chmoore, my friend. Heck, I spend almost $8.00/month on the senior citizens levy.
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Smartman ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jun 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Nicely said chmoore! Oh and VET!!!! I have never left!!!!!
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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ch:
"when I get to spend $8.00/month more on my taxes so we can have a new middle school and RENOVATED----which people talk about on here---high school." JUST CURIOUS....AND WHAT WILL THE NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL AND RENOVATED HIGH SCHOOL GET US FOR OUR MONEY? DID IT GET ANY OF US ANYTHING (OTHER THAN FANCY NEW SCHOOLS) WITH THE $45 MILLION BOND APPROVAL MONEY SPENT ON THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS? KINDA PROVES THAT NEW FACILITIES DON'T NECESSARILY GET US IMPROVED PERFORMANCE, DOESN'T IT? DO YOU THINK YOU RECEIVED A GOOD ROI ON YOUR ELEMENTARY BOND APPROVAL VOTE? ch: "Get rid of that giant elephant of the 90 year old "MHS" which is so outdated and inadequate and get a replacement at no-cost (the state owes us $40 million which will be completely lost if we do nothing" "COMPLETELY FREE"? HOW? THE STATE IS CHIPPING IN ON THE COST BUT NOT PAYING FOR THE ENTIRE THING, RIGHT? IF SO, THEN WHY ARE WE BEING ASKED TO VOTE ON A BOND LEVY? OUR SHARE OF THE DEAL, RIGHT? ch: "when I get to spend $8.00/month more on my taxes" "Heck, I spend almost $8.00/month on the senior citizens levy" BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE OLD "BUT IT'LL ONLY COST YOU A FEW CUPS OF COFFEE PER MONTH" ROUTINE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE. IT'S ALL ABOUT PUTTING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD NO MATTER WHAT THE AMOUNT. THE JOURNAL COULD BE ONLY TEN BUCKS A MONTH, BUT IF YOU NEVER READ IT OR FIND IT SUBPAR, YOU STOP SUBSCRIBING TO IT DON'T YOU. SAME HERE WITH ME. I DON'T SEE ANY VALUE ADDED ISSUES NOR REASONABLE PROGRESS WITH THE SCHOOLS, THEREFORE, I VOTE NO ON ALL LEVIES. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT 8 BUCKS A MONTH ISN'T MUCH TO ASK, BUT ISN'T THE REAL CONCERN HERE WHAT WE'RE ALL GETTING FOR OUR MONEY EVERY TIME THEY ASK FOR MORE? THE DATA DOESN'T LIE. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE PROGRESS OF THE SCHOOL PERFORMANCE GIVEN THE MONEY SPENT ON THEIR GRAND SCHEME OVER THE LAST THREE DECADES? WHAT HAS ENDEARED YOU TO OFFER YOUR SUPPORT WHEN REASONABLE PROGRESS HASN'T BEEN MADE, GIVEN THE MANY LEVIES THAT HAVE PASSED? OH, AND STANKY, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU LEFT OLD BUDDY. WHERE DID YOU GO? KINDA MISSED ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT THE SCHOOLS. ENJOY ch's RESPONSES THOUGH. EXCELLENT. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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chmoore1 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Vet: I knew my stock in "Duck Tape" would go up on that one---hopefully, you have some spare rolls on hand to keep your head from exploding. Just a couple of questions: (1) let's say that there are some students that---for whatever reason---are never going to get to the standards set by the state/government. Should all the rest of the students---the GREAT MAJORITY--- be punished by not having modern buildings in which to learn and thrive? (2) Do those same students (the ones who can't pass the tests) have any value and deserve to learn and retain what they can? (3) We still don't have an answer to the "Vail" situation: a 90 year old building that costs a ton of money to heat and maintain. What is the answer for the next 10+ years? Let it continue to deteriorate to nothing, and then build a new middle school without the state's participation? Vet, the state's participation is real---and it will go away if we do nothing. Please understand and address that. $40 million WILL pay for the new middle school. With or without the state's money, Middletown will need a new middle school in the coming years. It will cost as much or more to renovate it, and we'll still have an inadequate building. Also, not to stir the pot, but you did vote for a levy this past year---the Senior Citizen's levy. Just tryin' to keep the record straight. Vet, I just re-read your post comment about "...completely free"; yes, the state's money will completely pay for the new middle school. The bond levy's real cost to the local taxpayers is for the RENOVATED---NOT NEW---high school. Two totally separate items. As always, I'm just chmoore.
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ktf1179 ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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If we had academic performance like Springboro and Mason, then a new school would make sense. But to say a New School would bring about better performance is just a lie. All new schools are going to do is trick new people not from this area into thinking that Middletown has great schools when in fact the test scores just don't show it.
Just look at what people on what GreatSchools.org rate Middletown Schools. http://www.zillow.com/middletown-oh/schools/ Besides I would like my $8.00 a month go to repaving our streets. That alone will increase property values, which will in turn increase revenues to the schools. Imagine that ;) |
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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cmoore.... using your logic, why should I or any taxpayer who has seen a decline in property valuation go down from where valuation was nearly 25 years ago (it should be double by simply adding in CPI), absorb the cost for the school buildings when my children went to private school, are out of school, and less than 25% of property owners in Middletown have students that even attend a school within the system?
As for the needy, poor, disenfranchised, child "entitled" to the Ritz Carlton of a school building, it seemed many thrived attending the one room school house years ago. There is absolutely no justification for this levy, it must go down in defeat. Additionally...using your analogy....why have the standards against performance been stuck on not gain---when new schools were built? ANSWER- there is no direct correlation between test scoring and standard results against 'new buildings' and amenities. Intellect determines performance, not the thickness of carpet, brick, or eco- thermodynamic ac/heat. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"OH, AND STANKY, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU LEFT OLD BUDDY. WHERE DID YOU GO? KINDA MISSED ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT THE SCHOOLS. ENJOY ch's RESPONSES THOUGH. EXCELLENT"
MY MISTAKE.......SMARTMAN. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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ktf1179 ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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If anything the School Board should be yelling at the city about doing something to raise property Values in Middletown. Instead of trying to pass another school levy, which will drive more people out of Middletown, and decrease your revenues again. Raising Taxes is not the Answer, it is only a temporary fix to a bigger problem.
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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ch, please see ktf1179 and acclaros posts. I rest my case. The school supporters and school admin. still tie new facilities to better performance. You are attempting to do it here. Again, we do have a glimpse of that philosophy with the new elementaries. They have been in place long enough to develop a trend. Question for you......Look at the student performance with the old elementaries of a decade ago and compare the performance with students educated in the new elementaries. Any significant improvement? 45 million worth? Was it worth it to build new elementaries as to ROI?
Yes I voted for the seniors levy for selfish reasons. We use their transportation services for the wife in the wheelchair. To be fair, I would suspect people who vote for the school levies do it for the same reason-the need for the service. Your point is? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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ktf1179 ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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Having gone to Springboro Schools in the 80's and 90's, we had great performing schools without any new school buildings. Springboro really didn't get any new schools until the late 90's. Heck our Jr., High School at the time was built in 1908, and had no A/C, and asbestos, all over the place, but we still got a good quality education. The reason was due to the teachers and parents caring about the students success. I do believe that Middletown schools can be as good as Springboro and Mason, but it will take the teachers, and parents to make the difference not a building.
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chmoore1 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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KTF1179/Acclaro//Vet: Once again, none of you addressed what to do with our 90 year old monster. Ignore it for 10 more years and THEN do something/nothing about it? Under full local cost? Never addressed the other questions that I asked. Vet, it's ok, in your opinion, to have your "selfish reasons" but anyone who wants to support the school levy for ANY reason is a "kool-aid drinker." Please answer the questions: (1) what is your long-term plan for the middle school? (2) Why punish all the students because of some? Perhaps, just like when all the rest of us went to school----including me---students didn't perform to their potential. I know I didn't. By the way, I have NEVER tied new schools to performance. We need new/renovated buildings because the others are not functional for today's learners---at any level. Just 1 chmoore. Acclaro: good point about the one room school house. North, South and Central Schools all lasted less than 80 years Each were replaced with unair conditioned buildings because that''s what they had in the early '50s. Each one room school house was ultimately replaced by the "newer, better version." Thank goodness our forefathers provided... |
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ktf1179 ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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As for a work around to the middle school issue you can expand existing schools in order to make a dedicated middle school out of an existing building. You can try to revolted the existing middle school to bring it up to code. You can build a new middle school that doesn't need the latest and greatest equipment, and luxuries. That way you show the tax payers that you truly care about staying within budget. I will make a deal try to get the monthly cost to the tax payer down to only $5 a month then you will have my vote then.
Just keep in mind the the majority of the people in Middletown make less than 40k a year. And what doesn't seem that much to you can really break the bank for some people. |
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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chmoore....again....if I used your analogy, you would be the cause of the housing market collapse in 2008, because everyone in the United States, deserved a house. As they deserved a house, which they could not afford, the market crashed, all your fault based upon same analogy.
I believe countless individuals, myself included, have stated updating the features which might be providing a better return Cost of Ownership such as heating, would be a consideration as an alternative. The argument, "we have to grab that state money" is akin to a compulsive shopper buying the 51st pair of shoes, because it was on sale, the deal too good to pass up? Raising taxes when Middletown is so down in its property valuation just adds to a dismal situation, and economic pain, not creating a catalyst for growth and prosperity. The prudent strategy would be be await to see how Middletown turns around with that expansive growth from the Atriium and Cincinnati State, not load additional tax burden on a ship already sinking. Usually, it has been my observation chmoore, that when a boat is sinking, you throw water out of it, not pour it in. But....there are too many compulsive shoppers in Middletown, that spend like they have the use of others credit cards, they do. Until Middletown adults act like West Chester and Springboro, the city and its residents continue to sink underwater. City hall as all the life rafts and preservers. The others----about to perish with such nonsensical overload of debt. . |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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spiderjohn ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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So-- what happens to the old hs, now a middle school, when it is closed?
Can the system afford to tear it down? Will it be looted of any valuable woodwork or fixtures like the other schools were? Will the property be sold? Will the taxpayers get good bang for their buck through salvage/sales? |
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