City Council Meeting 12-16-08

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   The meeting tonight should be interesting.  First we will get to hear about extending the current Section 8 situation with a new contract with a new company for another 3 years, 3 years Middletown can  not afford to just maintain the staus quo, but they will.

Next we will have the Council Comments with 7 denials of the Forbes Story on Middletown being a top 10 dying City.  Each Council member will basically say the story in wrong and inaccurate, even though the data used is available on the net to view.

Next we will have the rolling out of the Merrell Wood Middletown is wonderful list:

The Good

• Location, location, location.
• The I-75 exchange, the Renaissance district and the new Atrium Medical Center.
• The new Senior Center.
• Miami University Middletown and Dave Finkelman Auditorium.
• The new 12th District Court of Appeals building.
• Our new city manager, City Council, finance and economic development director, and police and fire chiefs.
• Middletown Transit System.
• Five new elementary schools .
• A new Kroger Marketplace.
• The Manchester Inn & Convention Center.
• Drury Inn.
• Middfest International.
• Sorg Opera Company.
• 32 public parks.
• 80-plus churches.
• 40-plus restaurants.
• The Ohio Challenge hot air balloon competition.
• The Multicultural Arts Festival.
• Middletown Habitat For Humanity.
• Downtown Eric Henn murals.
• The Fourth of July and Memorial Day parades.
• AK Steel Corp.
• Middletown Lyric Theater.
• The South Main Street historical district.
• Sunset Pool and new splash pads.
• Middies sports programs.
• The Great Miami River bike trail.
• Keep Middletown Beautiful.
• The MUM Downtown arts center.
• Weatherwax Golf Course, Browns Run, Wildwood and Forest Hills country Clubs.
• Light Up Middletown.
• The Fenwick Festival.
• The Wings Of Freedom Air Show.
• The ability to go anywhere in the city in 15 minutes.
• The Middletown Antique Mall.
• The Middletown Symphony Orchestra.
• The Aeronca Fly-In.
• The YMCA downtown and at Atrium Medical Center.
• Affordable housing.
• Port Middletown.
• Hook Field Regional Airport.
• The Middletown Historical Society.
• The Canal Museum.
• Baker Bowl skate park.
• Middletown pickle ball courts.
• Smith Park's fishing pond.
• Middletown youth baseball, soccer and football programs.
• The Downtown Art Central Foundation.
• The AK Riverfront Pavilion.
• Middletown Public Library.
• TV Middletown.
• The Main Street Art & Music Festival.
• The AK Steel soccer fields.
• The Butler County Bombers.
• The Chamber Of Commerce.
• The Blues & Bikes Festival.
• BeauVerre/Riordan stained glass studio.
• Goldman Park's handicapped baseball field.
• Middletown Arts Center.
• Bulls Run Arboretum, the Woodside Arboretum and Veterans Memorial Wall.
• Bicentennial Commons.
• The Great Miami River.
• Middletown Tennis Club.
• Sebald Park.
• Middletown Pioneer Cemetery.
• The Woman's Center.
• Middletown Community Foundation.
• Governor's Square with the Broad Street Bash and the downtown farmers' market.
• The Sportsman Club.
• MADE Industrial Park.
• The Community Center.
• WPFB Radio.
• The Middletown Journal.
Merrell's list is a bit over done and repetitive but you get the idea.
I am going on my 5th year living here and have heard the same old tired list for the last 5 years and the problem is nothing has changed for the better as a matter of fact the situation has gotten worse.  It is fine to have a "Glass half full" out look but you need to also deal with the problems that are holding Middletown back.  You need to deal with them now not 3 years from now but now.

Now we have the Bad according to Wood:

The Bad & Not So Ugly

• Condition of our roads.
• Status Of Towne Mall.
• Cutbacks in city personnel and services.
• The Swallens /Middletown Convention Center building.
• Middletown's disproportionate share of Butler County Section 8 housing.
• The Middletown post office.
• The pace of our public schools' continuous improvements.
• Red-light cameras.
• Middletown's representation in Butler County politics.
• Taxes.
• The need for specific neighborhood renewals.
• Some citizens' perception that our city's glass is half empty instead of half full.
I will add Poverty to this list as Merrell appears to have overlooked it or chose to ignore that issue.

Now my question here is what one item on the good list is an overpowering reason for any large company to move to Middletown, in otherwords what does Middletown have that can't be found at any other City along I-75 between Cinci and Dayton, that would make a company move here.

Now lets look at the Bad and Ugly list.  If you had to pick one item on that list that would keep a business form moving to Middletown what would it be?  Lack of Infrastructure, poor performing schools, lack of amenities i.e. Towne mall, poverty, lack of City Services, over abundance of Section 8 housing, etc.  Any one of these items by themselves could be a deal breaker for any new company looking to relocate to the area.  The Good list has no one single item that is compelling to move to Middletown.  So why don't we work on the Bad list and at least start doing something about the negatives, instead of just telling ourselves over and over again, "Middletown has a Bright Future".

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Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: City Council Meeting 12-16-08 Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 11:16am
	The meeting tonight should be interesting. First we will get to hear about extending the current Section 8 situation with a new contract with a new company for another 3 years, 3 years Middletown can not afford to just maintain the staus quo, but they will. Next we will have the Council Comments with 7 denials of the Forbes Story on Middletown being a top 10 dying City. Each Council member will basically say the story in wrong and inaccurate, even though the data used is available on the net to view. Next we will have the rolling out of the Merrell Wood Middletown is wonderful list: The Good • Location, location, location. • The I-75 exchange, the Renaissance district and the new Atrium Medical Center. • The new Senior Center. • Miami University Middletown and Dave Finkelman Auditorium. • The new 12th District Court of Appeals building. • Our new city manager, City Council, finance and economic development director, and police and fire chiefs. • Middletown Transit System. • Five new elementary schools . • A new Kroger Marketplace. • The Manchester Inn & Convention Center. • Drury Inn. • Middfest International. • Sorg Opera Company. • 32 public parks. • 80-plus churches. • 40-plus restaurants. • The Ohio Challenge hot air balloon competition. • The Multicultural Arts Festival. • Middletown Habitat For Humanity. • Downtown Eric Henn murals. • The Fourth of July and Memorial Day parades. • AK Steel Corp. • Middletown Lyric Theater. • The South Main Street historical district. • Sunset Pool and new splash pads. • Middies sports programs. • The Great Miami River bike trail. • Keep Middletown Beautiful. • The MUM Downtown arts center. • Weatherwax Golf Course, Browns Run, Wildwood and Forest Hills country Clubs. • Light Up Middletown. • The Fenwick Festival. • The Wings Of Freedom Air Show. • The ability to go anywhere in the city in 15 minutes. • The Middletown Antique Mall. • The Middletown Symphony Orchestra. • The Aeronca Fly-In. • The YMCA downtown and at Atrium Medical Center. • Affordable housing. • Port Middletown. • Hook Field Regional Airport. • The Middletown Historical Society. • The Canal Museum. • Baker Bowl skate park. • Middletown pickle ball courts. • Smith Park's fishing pond. • Middletown youth baseball, soccer and football programs. • The Downtown Art Central Foundation. • The AK Riverfront Pavilion. • Middletown Public Library. • TV Middletown. • The Main Street Art & Music Festival. • The AK Steel soccer fields. • The Butler County Bombers. • The Chamber Of Commerce. • The Blues & Bikes Festival. • BeauVerre/Riordan stained glass studio. • Goldman Park's handicapped baseball field. • Middletown Arts Center. • Bulls Run Arboretum, the Woodside Arboretum and Veterans Memorial Wall. • Bicentennial Commons. • The Great Miami River. • Middletown Tennis Club. • Sebald Park. • Middletown Pioneer Cemetery. • The Woman's Center. • Middletown Community Foundation. • Governor's Square with the Broad Street Bash and the downtown farmers' market. • The Sportsman Club. • MADE Industrial Park. • The Community Center. • WPFB Radio. • The Middletown Journal. Merrell's list is a bit over done and repetitive but you get the idea. I am going on my 5th year living here and have heard the same old tired list for the last 5 years and the problem is nothing has changed for the better as a matter of fact the situation has gotten worse. It is fine to have a "Glass half full" out look but you need to also deal with the problems that are holding Middletown back. You need to deal with them now not 3 years from now but now. Now we have the Bad according to Wood: The Bad & Not So Ugly • Condition of our roads. • Status Of Towne Mall. • Cutbacks in city personnel and services. • The Swallens /Middletown Convention Center building. • Middletown's disproportionate share of Butler County Section 8 housing. • The Middletown post office. • The pace of our public schools' continuous improvements. • Red-light cameras. • Middletown's representation in Butler County politics. • Taxes. • The need for specific neighborhood renewals. • Some citizens' perception that our city's glass is half empty instead of half full. I will add Poverty to this list as Merrell appears to have overlooked it or chose to ignore that issue. Now my question here is what one item on the good list is an overpowering reason for any large company to move to Middletown, in otherwords what does Middletown have that can't be found at any other City along I-75 between Cinci and Dayton, that would make a company move here. Now lets look at the Bad and Ugly list. If you had to pick one item on that list that would keep a business form moving to Middletown what would it be? Lack of Infrastructure, poor performing schools, lack of amenities i.e. Towne mall, poverty, lack of City Services, over abundance of Section 8 housing, etc. Any one of these items by themselves could be a deal breaker for any new company looking to relocate to the area. The Good list has no one single item that is compelling to move to Middletown. So why don't we work on the Bad list and at least start doing something about the negatives, instead of just telling ourselves over and over again, "Middletown has a Bright Future".

Middletown News Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown News Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 6:04pm
	Well at least there is some good in Middletown. And many of those things are on Merrell's list.
	Please like our Middletown USA Facebook Page

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 7:37pm
	Hey Jonathan I don't think many people doubt that their are many good things about Middletown. Personally I don't need to be reminded a dozen times a year about them. It is the other list that needs to be worked on and reduced and seems to be where Middletown falls short, as is evident tonight in the long debate on Section 8 that just finished and is to be continued next year.

spiderjohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749	Post Options Post Reply Quote spiderjohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 6:48am
	What a mess of a Council meeting. Indecision and lack of agreement on virtually everything any more. Actually Middletown is no worse off than b4 the Forbes article surfaced. No denying the fundamentals behind our ranking. Many things to enjoy here. Had a nice meal at 56 Degrees last night, and mingled with many friends there. Same at Stefano's Saturday night, and introduced AJ Smith to the place and the staff/patrons. He liked both the place and the pizza. Enjoy the holiday season, and support your local businesses. Bela Flecktones Christmas cd is too cool. Treat yourself to an exploration of just what you can do here. You might enjoy yourself, and realize that we are far from dying.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 7:18am
	Yes, it was a mess of a meeting with more and more indecision on Councils part. Mr. Becker was the only one that got it right last night. You determine what you want to do with the Section 8 program, are we going to maintain the status quo, reduce the vouchers to a level more inline with our population in the County, or give the program to Butler County. Then you issue an RFP, but this council seems to be doing it ass backwards. If CONSOC agrees to another 3 month extention, Council should take this opportunity to get it done right......doubtful, but there is always hope. Once again last night we got the, "we are not talking about the merits of Sections 8". That conversation seems to be taboo by the City. The council seems to be concerned about only 2 things when it comes to Section 8, The landlords and the People on Section 8, this is unfortunate for a city of 51,000+ plus residents.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 8:19am
	The other interesting thing that I learned last night is that the Housing Sub-committee is basically made up of City Employees, Section 8 Landlord and some members from the CDBG Board or group. No Citizens without ties to the city, no businesses, no one from the Chamber. A lot like letting the Fox watch the Hen House if you ask me.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 17 2008 at 9:17am
	Pacman- Would some of those "merits" of Section 8 be that there are some people close to or on Council making money off of the Section 8 program, perhaps? Could this be the cause of the "reluctance" to discuss it? Would it, perhaps, give some "important" people in this town a black eye? If so, all the more reason to find out. Just asking----

MadisonMom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Dec 09 2008 Location: MadisonTownship Status: Offline Points: 298	Post Options Post Reply Quote MadisonMom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 18 2008 at 10:29pm
	To Pacman.......So who should be on the Housing Sub-Committee? To VietVet.......How can we get an answer to the "reluctance of an important person making money off Section 8" question above? I believe these are valid points to make.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 6:38am
	MM- How do we get an answer to the question of identifying individuals making money off of Section 8? IF THE INFO. WAS AVAILABLE (which I doubt)- acquire a list of all Section 8 property addresses in Middletown. Next, go to the Butler County Auditor's page and call up the property listings which give the owners name. Unless the info. has been laundered to protect the actual owner from being identified, we would know who, if any, "influential" people own these properties and whether they are actual Council members or tied in some way to decision influencing leaders in town. If it proves out to be true- ie- that Council members own or are connected with Section 8, we would know that they are making money off of the program and by approving the overwhelming amount of Section 8 for this town, would also tell us that there is a conflict of interest by their approval. Then, after asking for an explanation, we should throw them off of Council, never to return.

MadisonMom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Dec 09 2008 Location: MadisonTownship Status: Offline Points: 298	Post Options Post Reply Quote MadisonMom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 8:43am
	to VietVet... So I take it this is legal? What about conflict of interest? Madison Township just went thru conflict of interest. I never could get a straight answer out of anyone.

Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 19 2008 at 10:08am
	MadisonMom: Haven't you heard??? Middletown city hall does NOT recognize the universally accepted meanings of "conflict of interest"!!!

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 21 2008 at 9:21am
	MadisonMom, we are in this Section 8 mess due to Council, City Employees, etc. Now in my opinion to have a Committee that is solely made up Section 8 Landlords, City Employees and CDBG members is leaving out a very large part of the Community that is directly impacted by the overabundance of Section 8 in Middletown. There is no one from the business community, no one from the BOE or Education System, no one represent ling the Citizens of Middletown. Section 8 Landlords they have one issue the continuance of the program as is, City employees who may have part of their salaries paid by the funds from the Federal Government for the Section 8 program also have a conflict of Interest, the CBDG I take it has to do with grants from the state and the federal government. One thing that really disturbs me when the Council discusses the Section 8 issue is that pretty much 100% of the talk is about the impact on Section landlords which I will guess represents maybe 200-300 people is could be less. The one landlord I talked to, suffice it to say he has more section 8 houses than McCain has houses. Then they talk mostly about the impact on the Section 8 recipients. They do not mention the impact on the city, its residents, it businesses, etc. Mr. Becker has on several occasions tried to steer the conversation to "what do we want to do with this program", but each time he has been shut down. At the beginning of each discussion we get the old, "we are not here to talk about the merits of Section 8". Which personally I don't get. It would seem to me you layout the parameters of the program prior to possibly hiring a new company under the pretense of having 1662 vouchers and then decide to cut the vouches to a more reasonable level. To me th approach council is taking lends itself to hire a company to deal with it and then the program gets shoved onto a shelf and forgotten for another 3 years and the city continues to suffer. Personally I don't think anyone of council is profiting from Section 8 housing. I believe Marconi stated on another board that at one time he had been involved with Section 8 housing but was out of it currently. Another matter that disturbs me is councils reasoning for maintaining an excessive amount of Section 8 as compared to any other area in Ohio. The city has 1 voucher for every 31 residents. To put that in perspective for Butler County to catch up to Middletown they would need approximately 11300 Vouchers, whereas they currently have less than 1000. Mr. Schiavone says we need to keep the program due to the economy and the foreclosure situation. Now let me ask anyone reading this. The city has 1662 vouchers all in use, they have a waiting list of 500 people, according to Marconi. If you lose your house is your first action going to be to go and try and get on the Section 8 housing list. Even at 1 voucher a day turn over rate it would take you a year and a half to make it to the top of the list. This argument holds no water. Then we get the, "we have to remember who we are" a "steel town" from several members. As if it is some type of disease and the City and its residents and businesses don't deserve any better. Then we have the issue of this taking 18 months to try and resolve, I am sorry but this is not an 18 month issue. This is at the most a 4-6 months and we are done with it. But council continues to drag it out with little to no action on the matter. Last weeks meeting is a prime example of what is wrong with council. Committee makes recommendation and some council members get upset and the issue gets dragged out even longer. Mr. Marconi it was a recommendation by a Committee that Council appointed. You don't like the finding fine don't approve it, but move on. To sit there for 20-30 and go on and on about Consoc etc. is ridicules. There are 49000 other residents in this City who deserve better leadership than what we are getting on this issue, but unfortunately it appears that 49000 other residents don't matter. This will eventually get voted on in the future and then shelved for another 3 years and Middletown will probably move on down to the # 5-7 slot in a year or so. As far as the poverty issue goes that Forbes brought up. Lets 1662 section 8 vouchers, 500 on a Section 8 waiting list, Marconi's claim of 400 or so Public Housing units, lets say 200 on that waiting list. Lets see we have about 2800 families/persons. Lets say 3 people per voucher that is 8400 residents. Now Forbes claimed about 11200 residents living in poverty, well there are about 8400 right there, 2800 short of Forbes number. I don't think it will be to hard to get to Forbes 11200 or 22% in poverty in Middletown currently or even back in 2007.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 22 2008 at 8:22am
	I watched the Dec 16th Council meeting on TV Middletown again last night.Just some observations- I wanted to pull the words out of Marconi's mouth as he seemed to be stuck on the words "you know" "you know" many times and seemed to thrive on creating controversy. He sure likes to hear himself talk doesn't he? How ironic that Council is always concerned about a citizen going on and on and sayin nothing, but Mulligan just sat there next to Marconi and looked at him in awe, while Scott-Jones sat on the other side with a look of total shock at the Marconi barrage of "nothingness" being spewed. Armbruster said he didn't feel good but when he does "feel good", he really isn't a difference maker. Ford had alot of "uhhs". Becker gave his best impression of a drill instructor when speaking but asked one key question- "where are we headed with Section 8?" Good question. No answers or responses, but a good question. Lastly, Schiavone. He was cool, smug and sat rather quiet during the Marconi barrage and others commenting. It was a scene of total confusion and subdued infighting as to next steps. Gilleland sat back and interjected occasionally to make suggestions and to seemingly baby sit the kids behind the Council desk. Looked like a day care employee taking care of unruly kids. THEN, the amendments and approval portion of the meeting came and all were rubber stamped with "yes" comments with narry a question being asked. God help us Tiny Tim!

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 22 2008 at 9:18am
	I find it ironic that the Council can not clear up the Section 8 mess and we are headed into another extenstion if CONSOC agrees and 18 months of inaction. Yet we get a new City manager who looks at the situation and can make a decision in a reasonable amount of time. Then we have have a City paid Consultant who comes to the same conclusion as the City Manage in short order. Where is Council, it nixes both the City Managers and Consultants recommendation of moving Section 8 to Butler County and is still warming up in the Batters Circle waiting to strike out.................

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 22 2008 at 4:55pm
	Hey Vet I guess the Middletown Council Meeting must not be a top 10 show I think you and I are the only ones watching it.....maybe we should just cancel it and bring back The Three Stooges and Laurel & Hardy. Now they were worth watching and good for a chuckle or two.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 22 2008 at 9:29pm
	You bet Pacman- Laurel and Hardy, the Three Stooges, the Marx Brothers films- all great comedy and slapstick. Can't you just see a skit by the Stooges and this Council as the scene with the slapping, hand gestures, eye pokes and lines like "I'm as pure as the fresh driven snow" (Curley) followed by "But you drifted" (Moe) and a head slap? I could just see this Council getting into it about Section 8 and Mulligan standing up and poking Marconi in the eye with Marconi blocking it and looking at the camera and giving the Curley response, nauk nauk, nauk. How about a little Laurel/Hardy action with Becker saying to Schiavone- " well, this is another fine mess you've gotten us into" and Schiavone starting to cry ala Stanley- and watching it all on TV Middletown! Now that would be more entertaining than this Council has been in a long time! I think the Three Stooges episode of Disorder in the Court would work for Council. 12/23- Alright, just thought of another Three Stooges/Council analogy. How about the episode where the Stooges are plumbers and Curley has the pipes in the bathtub going all over the place, in every direction except the direction the pipes are suppose to be going in.They end up crashing through the floor falling to the basement due to water buildup. Kind of reminds you of the way Council solves problems doesn't it?

spiderjohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749	Post Options Post Reply Quote spiderjohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 23 2008 at 6:42am
	My favorite Vet post. Let your imagination flow. Beautiful!