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Thursday, November 21, 2024 |
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Why The City of Middletown Tax Levy MUST FAIL! |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Jul 21 2012 at 12:22pm |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Stanky
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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I'm hearing that the Tax Levy signs are showing up in yards WITHOUT permission.
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middie83
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Dec 10 2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Acclaro: It is very disheartening the lies and vile words that spill from your mouth. For someone that appears to care for the City of Middletown as much as you do the only solution you come with is to vote no on a public safety levy that WILL better protect the residents, businesses and visitors of Middletown.
Any material that has been printed, such as mailings, the signs you see today, ect. were paid with by non city funds. The IAFF, FOP, IAM, AK Steel, Atrium, and other private donations have paid for these materials. If this levy were to fail the people of this city would see even more drastic cuts to public safety. That is no lie, it is facts. If the city has misused funds from the past public safety levy I ask you to come forward with this proof. If you have hard evidence of said misuse I will be one of the first to stand beside you in dealing with these issues. Stanky: If a yard sign was placed in a yard of someone that had not given the Levy Committee permission I ask that they contact me and it will be removed immediately. And they have my most sincere apologizes for the mistake. If anyone has any questions on the upcoming Public Safety Levy, I am always available to answer any questions. Thanks, Chris Klug Vice President Middletown Firefighters Local 336 middieff165@gmail.com |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Mr. King, do an audit of the public safety funds and you will take note of the movement from safety into other areas. Many signs are placed illegally, within a few ft of the street. Public safety is oriented towards the multiple vehicles that the city utilizes to take individuals to the Atrium, which is about 90% of the man hours associated with the fire department, not fighting raging fires.
I take great offense to your comments. The city took $50,000 to sneak this levy through, and I have heard one cannot get an absentee ballot, I am confirming this on Monday. It is interesting to note the union helped pay for the signs....surprising? Not in the least. There is virtually no housing market for sellers. The safety levy passes, and you won't be able to give your house away. The death nail cometh. Middletown and Hamilton at 1.75/ 2.0%, both are floundering and taxing businesses and residents out of the community. This isn't about public safety, its about job security and an opportunity for elevation in the pecking order called "seniority. Disappointingly, as 53% of population is in poverty, less than 6000 will even vote. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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middie83
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Dec 10 2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Acclaro: I believe the city talked about placing this levy on the ballot in multiple different public sessions so I'm not sure how they "snuck" this levy onto the ballot.
I have spoken with Councilman AJ Smith and if you send him an email he said he would more then willing to assist you in getting an absentee ballot for the levy. Why would the Unions not help pay for the signs? This levy directly affects us and I would rather not see the city funds go to the levy. I would think you would be happy that no city funds were used. You are correct that the majority of the calls the fire department makes are EMS details. That is why the city requires us to be both Firefighters and Paramedics. The tax payer is getting more bang for their buck. I am sorry if anything I said upset you, I was just stating the facts and how I felt about your post. I'm not sure what I said that you took great offense to. |
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greygoose
MUSA Resident Joined: May 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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Acclaro,
It appears that the Senior Citizens Levy has struck a nerve with you and I can’t, for the life of me, figure out why you are so concerned about it. If this city is such a waste, the seniors levy shouldn’t make much of a difference. If the city is already gone, passage of the seniors levy shouldn’t matter to anyone. If the city has been already been sunk by its union mindset; a mindset of laziness and unwillingness to do the heavy lifting needed to be successful, why should this levy be any different? If AK Steel and the Atrium Medical Center left this town because they didn’t want to be a part of it, why would this legislation make a difference one way or the other? If Forbes is correct in its assessment that Middletown is in a death spin, wouldn’t this levy hasten the end and put us out of our misery? If those with a brain have already left this city, why are you still here and why do you care so much about defeating this levy? Although I agree with you concerning the Public Safety levy, I look at the seniors’ situation a little differently. You keep stating that “they” made a poor business decision and that “they” need to live with the consequences. In reality, the “they” that made the poor decision was actually made up of very few people but the “they” that will feel the consequences of the failed levy are far reaching. In fact, the lost services could, conceivably, impact all of us as we age. I know that the Board of Directors has taken many steps to “tighten their belt” and I know that they have made significant progress since hiring Ann Munafo. Unfortunately, they still need help getting over the hump. Although I doubt that the levy will pass in our current economy, it will get my vote. GG |
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"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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middie83.....
"If anyone has any questions on the upcoming Public Safety Levy, I am always available to answer any questions". I have a question..... During the last safety levy, the voters were told that if the levy passed, it would maintain the current manpower level. However, we have all seen reductions in fire and police manpower, breaking the promise that was used to sell the levy the last time. Question: Can you, as a supporter of this levy, guarantee that if the levy passes this time, manpower will not be cut any further? Could you also outline what we, the taxpayers, are getting for our money as to services as opposed to other cities and at what point will the services be in serious trouble if more cuts are made and more promises are broken by city leaders? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me for trusting you" type of scenario. We use your ambulance service quite a lot for my wife. You all do an excellent job servicing the community. One of the bright spots here in town. Always had good responses. I want to support this but I don't want to be taken for a ride either. I am still in debate on this. The Seniors Levy.....we must support this as we use their handicapped transportation for the wife's doctor's appts. Selfish reason....we apologize to all who are against it. I understand what acclaro is saying concerning the Seniors Levy. They "dug the financial hole". Over extended themselves. Now they want more bailouts for their financial oversight. I can fully understand those who would not want to support that issue. The ones who drew up the Senior Center plan did a poor job concerning how they were going to pay for everything. |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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gg, if you can't comprehend the economics associated with higher taxes, bad schools, no support of infrastructure, waste on downtown boondoggle projects serving the interest of certain council members and city leaders, then you'll never comprehend the point on the impct on passing this levy, the senior citizen levy, and the next school levy. CS& H, AK, and the Atrium left Middletown because of the taxation, its a fact, no other reason. Simply put, people don't move in when taxes are so high, and so little value is provided in return.
If Middletown is comprised of 43% seniors, why is only a few buying into a membership? Ask anyone around them and the general response is they are bad neighbors. Less than 5% of senior citizens even pay a membership fee. Houses on Rosedale have been on market 7-9 years, without an offer, $250,000 + range, by Akers, Williams, Siewney. No one can get out out of Middletown, unless you are dumping the house like China does steel in North America. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Richard Saunders
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 30 2010 Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Middle83:
How many members does Middletown Firefighters Local 336 have? How many of those members will be voting "yes" for this tax? Will you be voting "yes" for this tax?
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Mr Saunders,
I believe most of the firefighters do not live in Middletown and therefore would not be able to vote in this levy. Acclaro, You only have to be 50 not 65 to belong to the Senior Cener and the last I heard there were about 1400 members. I am also one who is having trouble getting an absentee ballot from Butler County. I am also a Senior Citizen and disable and will not vote with this Levy. Mr Klug, I have the same question as Vet Viet... What happened to the promise of "No Reduction is Fire and Police Manpower" in the last safety? I would also like to know if the City is using the old state lottery scam - The State places all lottery proceeds in Education through the front door and takes the money out the back for other uses. If I am able to obtain a ballot, my wife and I will be voting NO on the public safety levy as well. Pacman |
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Richard Saunders
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 30 2010 Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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"I believe most of the firefighters do not live in Middletown and therefore would not be able to vote in this levy."Exactly my point, Pacman.While I believe that the firefighters do an outstanding job, since they are extremely busy with their duties during their time here in Middletown, I think that they may not fully grasp the negative effects that high taxes will have for our already dying city. It is easy for them to see the benefits that they themselves might reap from this so called public safety tax, and therefor to champion the cause, but if more of them actually lived here and could see what actually happens with our tax money they might have a different view on the issue.Some of this money might even be used for "public safety" by paying for decorative lighting on S. Main st. so that Mrs. Mulligan won't walk into a thorn bush. Is that why they would have us vote for this?
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middie83
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Dec 10 2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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The reduction in police and fire manpower:
This is more of a question for the city manager and/or council member. I am with all of you and was highly angered when members and staffing of the Middletown Fire Department were laid off and decreased. I am sure a lot of the blame will be put on the money the state took from municipalities. I myself can not promise that the city leadership will not make additional cuts down the road. I can only assure you if this levy fails you will see more drastic cuts to service. Will members vote yes for the levy: I have spoke will all our members that live in the city and they have said they will vote YES. What are you getting for your money and how will it affect you if it fails? The Matrix study that the city paid for a few years back said that 16 personnel per day was the WORST case scenario. That is where we are at today and I'd say we are already pushing the envelope. Members of council said that if the levy passed they would accept the SAFER grant that MFD was awarded which would allow us to go back to a min. of 19 per day. It isn't much more but puts the department in a better situation then it is in today where we are waiting on help from Monroe, Franklin, Jems or other surrounding departments on a daily basis. I also want to remind people this is a RENEWAL and will NOT increase taxes. MFD currently is able to respond and arrive to the over 95% of emergency details in 4 minutes or less. If the levy would fail.....well I'm sure you can draw your own conclusion and I don't want to be accused of using scare tactics. Thanks again for all the questions and I hope I was able to answer them fully for you all. Chris Klug Vice President Middletown Firefighters Local 336 |
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Richard Saunders
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 30 2010 Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Middie83: "I have spoke will all our members that live in the city and they have said they will vote YES."How many total members are there, and how many of that total live within the city limits?
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greygoose
MUSA Resident Joined: May 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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acclaro,
Contrary to your belief, others on this board comprehend economics just fine; you don't have to be a consultant to understand everything. The point that I was trying to make is this: "If you believe that the city of Middletown is too far gone to turn things around, why do you care one way or the other concerning the levies?" Could it be that you care more than you want to admit? GG |
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"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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gg, I believe consistently that taxation stymies economic development. It has been proven in Middletown, AK, the Atrium, and CS& H left and if you drive down Brielel Blvd you will take note 80% of the businesses are leaving. That should tell you something. I'd like many of my friends to be able to leave Middletown, to escape, by selling their house. Taxation simply prevents that, by declining interest in business and residents moving in. Pretty simple concept, comparable to the adage a real estate tycoon would agree on 'Location, Location, Location.' Middletown does not have the location, and raising taxes just makes the locale that much more dismal. Its as simple as that gg, really not a difficult analysis.
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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greygoose
MUSA Resident Joined: May 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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It may be simple, but you didn't come close to answering my question. In your opinion, is this city too far gone to recover? If so, why do you give a damn about the levies? Pretty simple questions.
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"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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middie83
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Dec 10 2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Richard: I will check on the total numbers as I can't think off the top of my head. As well we have many retired members that live in the city that have pledged their support.
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Chris Klug
Vice President Middletown Firefighters Local 336 middieff165@gmail.com |
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Bocephus
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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.Although Im undecided on how I will vote its gonna be hard to vote for anything or any one that aj smith supports. Any one that even stands next to this guy in public looses credibility and looks as foolish as he does in my opinion.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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gg....you are getting to be rather Freudian. Your question is ridiculous. Its like asking those concerned that the U.S. will be at 70% GDP to cover debt service by 2020 and asking those whom do not wish to see that happen as so disinterested they should not fear nor concern themselves of the End. Your technique is to ask questions repeatedly, most nonsensical, and beg for a reply.
I would like those whom wish to sell their house be able to do so, and they won't with the levy passing. It really doesn't require one to exert that much internal psychoanalysis. You supported tearing down buildings, intend to reward waste and mismanagement, a union pecking order for advancement over fear of a plateau effect, and yet....ask me why I don't want higher taxes as the End is near? The world is mad enough without Freud interpretation of the id, ego, or super-ego entering into the debate. You state you are a landlord of extraordinary capabilities, and yet want higher taxes. Every investor I have ever known, holds taxes are a bad thing, not good. Go figure huh. Do your research, and you will note Middletown property over 25 years, has not even kept up with GDP. After 2008, valuation has declined to 25-38%, of its value 25 years ago. Inept behavior, and ignorance, should not be rewarded. Passing this levy will do so. The Beast must be starved. Its retribution time G man. Freud would call it the conflict between th id and super-ego; Maslow, on the other hand, would call it basic self preservation before aspiring to self actualization. Take two placebos and call me in the morning. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Richard Saunders
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 30 2010 Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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acclaro...I'm with you !! But then again I want ALL levies to fail,I don't care what it's for.I too am sick to death and have been of the waste and the way spending is done in this town.Middletown is a federal welfare town,let the fed's bail'em out cause I don't care anymore either way it's still our money though.Every time I vote I vote for the other person and every time the same damn crooks are elected,so that is telling me no one wants to change apparently.I'll vote against this levy and any other levy they can dream up !!!
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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very strange questions and direction, Mr.Goose
so--let me throw one back at you: do you see passage or failing of either up-coming levy as having great impact in turning around the direction of our city's future? Are these issues at the core of our situation? We can't deal with local crime with the numbers that we have now. Pass or fail--we are still in deep. Acclaro is absolutely entitled to his own thinking why go after him in a personal way? deal with these core issues, my friend We were promised no reduction in public safety forces throughout the duration of the 5-year public safety levy. We were promised 100% dedicated funding towards maintaining a level of manpower without shifting these dedicated funds elsewhere. This renewal is not for another five years--I believe that it is permanent--so--it IS a tax increase the way that I look at it. Senior levy? Small change--will help the seniors--a good thing Citizens(and seniors) once again are being held hostage by poor planning and execution from those in charge of city govt. and past leaders of the Senior Center. Just look at how Vet has changed his tune now that he is affected. As I citizen, I am tired of being pimped out and made to feel negative and guilty any time that I question or fail to support bad and wasteful government and bureaocracy
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Spider: We were promised no reduction in public safety forces throughout the duration of the 5-year public safety levy. We were promised 100% dedicated funding towards maintaining a level of manpower without shifting these dedicated funds elsewhere. This renewal is not for another five years--I believe that it is permanent--so--it IS a tax increase the way that I look at it |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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I think a simple metaphor or analogy for the treatment the city of Middletown has shown for decades to residents is going out to eat at a nice restaurant you think, and when getting there, having just horrible service. The water is never refreshed, no fresh bread is brought to the table, the food is cold, and service is non existence. After eating and tolerating such deplorable conditions, you grab the check, and its outrageous. Your face turns a bright color of red, your veins gush from the overflow of blood on your of forehead, and you demand to speak to the manager.
After waiting 15 minutes for him to come to the table, you unleash on how bad service was, how the food was cold, the steak was raw, under-cooked, and the service was unacceptable. You sit back, and expect apologies, a refund, and a complimentary meal on the house next time. Instead, the manager tells you here's the bill, at $35.00 a plate, and a reminder parking while dining, cost $10.00. You sit there in complete bewilderment, shake your head, and walk to the cash register. That is what these levies are about, bad service, a bad meal, indifferent attitude, and a price pt revoltingly too high. One would not tolerate such treatment in a restaurant, it should not be tolerated in a city that has tightened the screws and made it impossible to to attract a buyer for houses and businesses. When CS & H, AK, and other businesses state they moved out because of the need to remain competitive associated with recruitment and retention of employees, they mean on tax rate. Better to be in West Chester or Mason paying 0% for the employee, or Middletown or Hamilton paying 1.75-2%? Ask the city manager for a doggie bag after your meal and see what response you get. To the rah rah cheer-leaders on the levy, they all work or worked, at the same restaurant you just had the bad meal. Vivian, I have heard exactly the same, across the board. I was in Big Lots last weekend buying some rope to tie tree limbs up. As soon as I walked into the store, I heard a man stating openly to the cashier, how he grew up in Middletown, and hated to even drive into the city now---he moved to Monroe. He said it was like coming into Croatia, or a 3rd world country. It may be a euphoric city for the docs that made a ton of money on AK's generous benefits, but for the vast majority, living in Middletown is equivalent to Dante's Inferno. The restaurant manager plans to continue to serve cold food, no refills on water, you have to beg for clean silverware, and pay at the end, an outrageous sum for a pathetic meal. That's what Middletown has been for three decades. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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rngrmed
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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There are communities close to Middletown that have a higher tax rate than the proposed increase. Not that I am a supporter of this tax, but the other communities have no problem bringing in new residents.
I personally would not mind the increase if I felt that I could trust City Hall to actually use it for its intended purpose and if we were getting a good ROI on the taxes we already pay.
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