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Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept?????
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Pacman View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 26 2009 at 9:25am
As Tax revenues decline and with no hope in the immediate future that this decline will be reversed it is time that the city starts to look at alternative ways to provide the services that are required.  Such as Public Safety and Infrastructure.  Take a look at the figures below for Kettering and Middletown.
 
Lets take a look at Kettering and Middletown for a moment:
 
Kettering Population approx. 58,000  Middletown 51,000
Kettering Average Income     $49,000  Middletown $37,000
Kettering Income Tax 2.25%  Middletown's  1.75%
Kettering Poverty Level  8.5%   Middletown's 19%
Kettering Section 8 Housing 71   Middletown 1662
Kettering City Employees 400  Middletown 400
Kettering size about 18 Miles   Middletown 26 Miles
Kettering Fire/Medical Calls about 8100+  Middletown 8929
Kettering Fire Stations 7   Middletown 5
Kettering Paid Firefighters 51    Middletown Paid Firefighters 85
This info is gathered from the web and as current as I could find.
 
So Kettering and Middletown have about the same number of Fire/Medical calls yet Kettering has 34 fewer paid Firefighters and 2 more Fire Stations how is this possible?
 
It is possible due in part to the Volunteer Firefighter Program they have:
 
Volunteer Department
Volunteer Firefighters

Fire%20Rescue%20logoThe City of Kettering's firefighting force includes 51 full-time firefighters, administrative personnel and paramedics. Full-time firefighters work during the day with backup from volunteers. After 5:00 pm and on weekends and holidays, volunteers take over providing the fire protection for the community as well as aiding paramedics on emergency runs. The City needs about 120 volunteers to be at full strength.

 
The question is can a paid/volunteer force work here?
 
The budget in Kettering for their Fire Dept is approximately $9.8 million, similar to Middletown's.  Could a Paid/Volunteer force in Middletown generate significant  savings for the city and it's residents and provide a comparable service?  I think Kettering has shown it could.
 
Kettering is operating with approximately 7 paid personnel per Fire Station, could Middletown do the same and reduce its paid force to approximately 35-40 personnel?
 
The next question is, is Middletown progressive enough to at least entertain the idea of such a program and look into the particulars of the program for Middletown?
 
Will Middletown send a contingent to Kettering and evaluate the program?
 
Will Middletown consider adopting such a program for the City if a significant savings can be obtained once it is up and running?
 
These are questions which I think the citizens of Middletown at least deserve an answer to, because it is evident that the current way of operating the City is not working now and will not work in the future.
 
Your ideas and opinions are welcomed.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Points: 7008 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 26 2009 at 11:05am
Randy- you have the ear of the council members and the city manager, correct? Could we send an E-Mail with Pacman's statistics to each and see if we get some responses? It would be interesting to see what the Fire Chief has to say about this also. I've got my guesses as to what the responses would be. Probably a , knowing how receptive they have been to citizen's suggestions in the past. Damn! being negative again.
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jag123 View Drop Down
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I am sure the IAFF would be ALL for this....... NOT!Thumbs%20Down
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randy View Drop Down
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Points: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 26 2009 at 3:16pm
Vet, Monday morning I will send an email to some city officials that still talk to me and see what kind of response I am able to get.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Pacman,
 
 
Read it over and let me know what you think about this report.  Matrix is the same company the City of Middletown contracted to study our department.  In Middletown's report, the Matrix Group stated the hospitals move east would not affect run times.  Anybody making that drive can see the additional run time the hospital move has created.
 
The volunteers Kettering uses are from their community, I take it you would be first in line for an application?
 
 
As of 09/01/08, base pay for a 40 hour per week fire fighter with a Paramedic certification -- $68,078
     (I think their 50 hour employees make the same amount)
As of 01/01/10, base pay for a 51 hour per week fire fighter with a Paramedic certification -- $58,600
     ($58,400 base pay plus $200 paramedic certification pay)
 
So thinking outside your box, I would get a $10,000 raise and decrease my hours of work by 1 hour per week.  The citizens would go from 24 hour in station coverage to 10 hour in station coverage throught the week.  Not having in station coverage increases the response time to YOUR emergency.
 
So jag123, the IAFF would probably go for that pay increase and work week reduction.
 
ashkicker
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lrisner View Drop Down
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Points: 330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 27 2009 at 11:57am
See Pacy, when you show some Intelligence and quit blaming the City Workers, You can come up with some Ideas! That would in fact, just about meet my previously stated opinion that the City needed to lose about 30% of it's Employees (Administrators are Employees too!).

Keep up the good work.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 8:57am
Ashkicker I read the study before I even made the original post and I saw nothing earth shattering there.  Residents of Kettering are I believe 96-98% satisfied with their fire service currently according to the city. 
 
The run time to the hospital is what it is, nothing is going to change that.  If the hospital had left town altogether you would be in a much worse situation than you are now.
 
Would the remaining firefighters get a $10k raise...........ah probably No.
 
Your in station coverage comment I don't get.  Paid Firefighters 10 hrs a day and Volunteers the other 14 hrs. would be how it would work. 
 
As far as my volunteerring I would think my two Heart Attacks would preclude that happening, but I would be more than happy to volunteer in some other  capacity.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 9:01am
It Can Be done:
 

The Virginia Beach Volunteer Rescue Squad was formed to act solely as a Rescue Squad/First Aid Crew to:

Provide pre-hospital emergency medical care 24 hours a day every day of the year to citizens and visitors of the City at no cost.

Since 1952, this is what we have been doing, and doing it very well.

Today we have:

  • 100+ active members

  • 20+ administrative members

State of the art equipment:

  • 6 ALS certified ambulances

  • 1 BLS certified ambulance

  • 1 heavy rescue/squad truck (ALS certified - non-transport)

  • 1 support/utility vehicle (ALS certified - non-transport)

  • 2 medically equipped response cart

Manning:

  • 1 ambulance staffed 24 hours (Rescue-14)

  • 1 additional ambulance staffed 12 hours (6PM to 6AM at Rescue-8)

  • Squad Truck staffed every 5th day in rotation with other volunteer squads

    The Virginia Beach Volunteer Rescue Squad responds to nearly 9,000 calls each year. Approximately one-third of the calls run in the City of Virginia Beach are handled by our station.

    Our training program and probationary period is one of the best and has produced some of our system's highly respected members.
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Points: 86 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 1:03pm
Pacman,
 
If the residents of Kettering have had no other fire department, what do they have to compare it to?
 
My hospital comment was to illustrate how you cannot believe everything you read in a
"professional" report.  If the hospital had left town, we would not have been in a worst situation, the citizens would have been.  We would still respond to emergencies, transport to the nearest facility and call in mutual aid from out of town to cover additional runs.  The result would have been a delay in treatment.
 
In station vs. out of station -- you call, dispatch dispatches and for 10 hours through the week, full time responders leave the station enroute to your emergency.  On the other hand, you call, dispatch dispatches, volunteers get dressed, get in their cars (maybe frost on their windows like this morning) drive to the station, get on their gear and respond to your emergency.
 
Sorry to hear about your heart attacks, I hope you have no lasting effects from them.
 
Yes Pacman, volunteers would work, the Police Department has "reserves".  In fact, the City could probably get by with three fire fighters on duty daily.  While it would work on paper, I feel the citizens would get shortchanged when it comes to service.  The big question is what level of service do the citizens want.  The tax levy that was passed was to maintain the level of service currently being provided.
 
Do you notice one of Kettering's fire station, Statiion 31, is manned strictly by volunteer and that station only had 7 volunteers.
 
ashkicker
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Hermes View Drop Down
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Pacman I would support moving towards using volunteers,I think it would be a great idea. Being a former resident of Ky where volunteer firemen are the norm ashkicker does have some points. Response times would fall dramatically to any emergency,fire or medical using volunteers. I'm not sure that the older generation of Middletonians would go for this. Most volunteers have higher insurance rates on their personal vehicles if they are equipped with lights & sirens,I have seen personally how this affects volunteer attitude. With business such as AK and the hospital and others I doubt they would like it. The union would no doubt fight this tooth and nail and since there is a union presence what would keep them from trying to organize volunteers ?
 
But as you state and show if it can work elsewhere it could work here.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Originally posted by ashkicker ashkicker wrote:

... The tax levy that was passed was to maintain the level of service currently being provided. ...
Ashkicker:
This is where I take issue.  During budget discussions just about six months before the Public Safety Tax Increase was proposed, the police and fire chiefs stated that they needed only about $500,000 additional per year to bring their departments to full authorized strength at that time (including filling "frozen" positions).  This would have been an IMPROVEMENT to public safety from the then "status quo".
 
The tax increase brought in over $2.5 MILLION per year!  Part of the difference can be explained by raises, and I'm not saying that you folks who risk your lives to protect us don't deserve them, but your raises weren't THAT big!
 
What happened to the rest of the money?
 
Well, I can tell you, even though no one at city hall will.  It's the same old shell game.  Instead of ADDING the $2.5million to the Public Safety budgets, they simply first spent like drunken congressmen on all of their sillly risky schemes, and then used the Public Safety tax increase MILLIONS to bring the budgets in those departs back up to where they would have been in the first place.
 
In plain English, they WASTED the money that should have been budgeted to public safety, and then REPLACED it with the MILLIONS from the so-called "dedicated Public Safety Payroll Tax Increase"!!!
 
The net result is, even though the public is ponying up over $2.5 MILLION per year EXTRA for public safety, all the city is doing "maintaining the level of service currently being provided"!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Points: 86 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 11:16pm
Mr. Presta,
 
I tend to shy away from the financial aspect of the department.  However, I will speak to the Chief and attempt to find the answer to your concerns.
 
I know you usually will quote your source when you blog, could you please direct me to where you got your information.  That information will be helpful when I speak to the Chief.
 
Thanks,
ashkicker 
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 9:16am
Just a quick note Hermes I'll be back later.
 
City Manager's Report 11/2008
 
 
"Budget Discussion – Public Safety is consuming more and more of the General

Fund Budget. Some cities have separate funds for police and fire divisions. Staff did

some research and ten years ago the percentage of the General Fund Budget that

went to Police and Fire was right at 63%, today we are at 70%. The City of

Middletown also had many more employees. The City of Kettering spends 41% of

their General Fund for Police and Fire. She stated the anticipated reserve in 2009 in

excess of 7 million dollars will go very quickly. She does appreciate the previous

City management and Council for making tough decisions to keep that reserve."
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