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City Manager wants Bike Path

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John Beagle View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 27 2009 at 2:02pm
from the city manager's report:

Energy Grant $490,000: Bike Path or Building Improvements

Good news!  We have been notified that we are the recipient of another $490,000 in stimulus funds to be used for energy efficiency related activities.   Activities that might be eligible include bike paths (due to fuel conservation) and renovations to city facilities to conserve energy.  Renovations to facilities would include lighting, HVAC systems, windows, energy efficient pumps and the like.  We are having staff discussions right now about finding the most appropriate project.   We have a number of older city-owned buildings in need of improvements that would qualify for the energy efficiency grant, which would in turn provide a return with energy savings year after year.  At the same time, it would be great to make the final 2 mile connection of our bike path to Franklin, which would then connect us to a 6 county region with over 250 miles of pathway.   If any council member has any thoughts on whether we should renovate a city-owned building or connect the bike path, please let me know.  Like many of the stimulus funds, we don’t have a lot of time to prepare the application, so we’ll need to make a decision in the near future.   My preference is to finish the bike path.  



John Beagle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 2:04pm
My preference is also a bike path. Repairs are needed to the existing one between Trenton and Middletown.

Check out this photo of a section that needs repairs:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 2:12pm
Gilleland also states:
Energy Grant $490,000: Bike Path or Building Improvements
Good news!  We have been notified that we are the recipient of another $490,000 in stimulus funds to be used for energy efficiency related activities.   Activities that might be eligible include bike paths (due to fuel conservation) and renovations to city facilities to conserve energy.  Renovations to facilities would include lighting, HVAC systems, windows, energy efficient pumps and the like.  We are having staff discussions right now about finding the most appropriate project.   We have a number of older city-owned buildings in need of improvements that would qualify for the energy efficiency grant, which would in turn provide a return with energy savings year after year.  At the same time, it would be great to make the final 2 mile connection of our bike path to Franklin, which would then connect us to a 6 county region with over 250 miles of pathway.   If any council member has any thoughts on whether we should renovate a city-owned building or connect the bike path, please let me know.  Like many of the stimulus funds, we don’t have a lot of time to prepare the application, so we’ll need to make a decision in the near future.   My preference is to finish the bike path.
 
Judy, I (we) would like to know just what older city owned buildings you are referring to. Also, what the energy savings would amount to. Enough to renovate the vault at Pioneer Cemetery?
While the bike path is nice for the few who use it, it doesn't benefit the majority of the citizens and the so-called "fuel conservation" would at best be miniscule.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 3:08pm
John- I guess in making a decision on to spend money/or not spend money on the continuation of the bike path, I would ask the question- How many people would use this bike path after completion? When I drive down around Carmody Blvd. and Bicentennial Commons, I have yet to see this path being used. Granted, it's only occasionally that I take that drive, but I can't help thinking that there are better things to spend this money on for more bang to the buck. Spending this money on upgrading money sucking city buildings would save the city more money in the long run than the path, would it not? What monetary rewards would we keep getting back with the bike path for years to come? JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 3:48pm
I know very few people who use this bike path, and most that do say that it is nasty, filthy and smelly. A half mill ought to buy a pretty nice bike path(for what reason?).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 4:11pm
To answer your question Spiderjohn, not many use it at all.

2 reasons why it makes sense.

1. The path as it sits right now is a hazard.
2. It may encourage others to use it.

Hate to see such a nice path just wash away.  It is only a small section that needs repairs. You can't quite tell from this photo, but there is a 6" drop that is not noticeable until you are right on top of it. I almost crashed because the sign wasn't very visible. 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 6:57pm
John it would have to encourage 1000's to make it worthwhile under the current circumstances and I doubt that will happen.  I can think of better ways to spend the money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 7:31pm

Originally posted by John Beagle John Beagle wrote:

My preference is also a bike path. Repairs are needed to the existing one between Trenton and Middletown.

Check out this photo of a section that needs repairs:
Mr. Beagle:

First, the pictures make it obvious that the problem would require an EXPENSIVE fix! The problem is the “base” (or sub-base), and would require extensive excavation and engineered backfill, at a minimum! Also, the pictures seem to indicate that this section of the bike path is on the “river side” of the levee. If this is true, ‘tis folly to try to either repair or extend the path in its current configuration and this entire section has been a WASTE of public funds.

Second, the City Manager has proposed "to make the final 2 mile connection of our bike path to Franklin” and did not mention any repairs to existing portions of the path. If she maintains a consistent policy (with that used for the vault at Middletown’s Pioneer Cemetery) since there is no money for restoration of the path, it must be DEMOLISHED, especially since this now has been reported and is a LIABILITY for the City.

Third, the City Manager is using the same sort of convoluted logic typical of Middletown’s Council and City Hall when she states “Activities that might be eligible include bike paths (due to fuel conservation)…”! This implies that trips by bike would “REPLACE” trips by fuel-burning vehicles. I can’t imagine this to be true. If anything, this would INCREASE fuel usage by encouraging people to load their expensive bikes onto their gas-guzzling SUVs; drive TWO vehicles to their destination point, then drive one vehicle to their starting point, peddle to their destination, load their bikes onto the destination vehicle, drive BACK to the starting point, pick up the first vehicle, then drive the TWO vehicles home. Can ANYONE explain to me how this “CONSERVES” fuel?

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:24pm
ahhhh come om Mike if you lived in Franklin and worked in Middletown wouldn't you take the Bike Path in December.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 11:33pm
HUH??!?  I can't swim or ice skate!! LOL LOL
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 7:56am
Someone please estimate the gas savings in doing this Bike path.  Is it at least $490,000.00 in the next 50 years?  I doubt it.  There are far more important projects that could be done that will come out of all of the taxpayers pockets this money could be used for.  Bike Path repair and finishing is not high on that list.
 
Bike Path finishing is a high priority, maintaining the City owned Cemetery is not.......go figure, you have got to love the working of mind at City Government.  It is sad that this City is built on a dysfunctional City Hall Government, that always has its hand out for the Citizen to do their job.
 
Sorry John but I don't see enough people using this Bike Path to make it worth $500k at this time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 1:37pm
I fail to comprehend the need to spend fund's for a bike path when our street's are in such shambles. During economic turmoil one must make a sacrifice for the better of one's self. I do not see city council making this sacrifice as they expect the citizens to do. Again it is the blind trying to lead more people into the darkness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote katiebell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 10:03pm
Why can't a small portion of this money be used for the vault and cemetary?  It would leave plenty for the roads in town.  All they have to do is say they want to fix the road through the cemetary.  It may be a white lie, but they are masters of lies!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:31am
The half a million dollars was awarded for projects that somehow improve energy efficiency, so restoring a vault in a cemetery does not seem to meet the requirements of the funds.  I'm not certain of the name of the grant the city received, but I think that it was described as money to be used for projects related to improving energy usage, which is why the City Manager asked for council input regarding whether the money should be used to retrofit an old city owned building with things like energy efficient bulbs, I guess, or completing the bike path.  Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation I believe. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 1:05pm
Bike path is little-used, and would seem to be a very low priority at this time.
Even light bulbs in municipal buildings might be a better expense, though out-sourcing the installation labor would be extremely cost effective.
 
Or we could actually find out:
How many Middletown municipal employees does it take to change a light bulb(and at what cost)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impala SS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 1:54pm
Spider>   That is a good one, I will say 2 to hold the bulb and 4 to turn the ladder, sounds good to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Middletown News Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 2:14pm
Bike paths are just one of many ways the Obama wants to Europeanize America. Global warming is just a way to get us to drive small cars. Get rid of your pickup trucks and vans and SUVs. Bring back the Yugo crapmobile.

Its like the feminization of America. The left wants us to drive gay little cars, ride bikes, and welcome Gay news, marriage and comedians as if thats the way we all ought to be.

Pretty soon you will not be able to buy a V8 anything. We'll all be driving around in Golf carts. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by Jonathan Haller Jonathan Haller wrote:

Bike paths are just one of many ways the Obama wants to Europeanize America. Global warming is just a way to get us to drive small cars. Get rid of your pickup trucks and vans and SUVs. Bring back the Yugo crapmobile.

Its like the feminization of America. The left wants us to drive gay little cars, ride bikes, and welcome Gay news, marriage and comedians as if thats the way we all ought to be.

Pretty soon you will not be able to buy a V8 anything. We'll all be driving around in Golf carts. lol
 
That's not a bad idea. We can do like China and several other Asian countries,rickshaw's to replace taxi cab's,two seat automobiles,more bicycle's for the poor who can not afford American made junk. Just think of the saving's on the eco system ! When gasoline hit's $6-$8 dollar's per gallon we'll have no worries !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:04pm
If they don't start repairing these roads we will all be riding energy efficiency bikes because our cars will not be able to take all of the pounding from these deleted roads that city refuses to fix. Maybe we all can get a grant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 6:01am
Originally posted by Marianne Marianne wrote:

The half a million dollars was awarded for projects that somehow improve energy efficiency, so restoring a vault in a cemetery does not seem to meet the requirements of the funds.  I'm not certain of the name of the grant the city received, but I think that it was described as money to be used for projects related to improving energy usage, which is why the City Manager asked for council input regarding whether the money should be used to retrofit an old city owned building with things like energy efficient bulbs, I guess, or completing the bike path.  Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation I believe. 
Marianne:
 
With all due respect, you mention projects "that somehow improve energy efficiency" and "projects related to improving energy usage".  Can you explain how the bike path accomplishes either of those goals?  Even if "Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation" (which it is NOT), it conserves absoluely NO energy unless it replaces some other LESS energy efficient mode of transportation used for the same reason!!!  Are you telling us that NOT ONLY some people that now use an automobile to drive along the river between here and Franklin would no longer do so if we were to complete this path, BUT ALSO  there would be enough of such usage to MORE than offset the energy required to prepare the proposed path, gather the raw material and produce, transport, lay, and compact the asphalt to construct the bike path?  And that all of this usage would occur before the path required REPAIR and MAINTENANCE as shown in the pictures above?
 
Is THAT what you are telling us?.
 
I am sorry, Marianne, but I believe that the bike path is (and will be) used IN ADDITION TO any other use of less energy efficient transportation, resulting in an NET INCREASE in energy use.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 9:01am
Mike,
Here's what I was "telling":
Originally posted by Marianne

The half a million dollars was awarded for projects that somehow improve energy efficiency, so restoring a vault in a cemetery does not seem to meet the requirements of the funds.  I'm not certain of the name of the grant the city received, but I think that it was described as money to be used for projects related to improving energy usage, which is why the City Manager asked for council input regarding whether the money should be used to retrofit an old city owned building with things like energy efficient bulbs, I guess, or completing the bike path.  Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation I believe.
....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 6:43pm
Marianne my standpoint is how many of the 52,000 residents in Middletown are going to use the Bike Path and benefit from it?  On the other hand there have been comments made of Firehouses in disrepair and other buildings in town that could use energy saving upgrades.  How many citizens benefit from these types of projects, in my mind all of the Citizens benefit from these programs versus what a thousand people in Middletown from a bike path that can be used only what 5-6 months out of year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 8:47am
Pacman, I understand your point.  My point was merely a response to someone asking: why can't this be used for streets?  It seems the simple answer is:  repairing the streets wouldn't qualify under the type of money the city has received.  Of course, that could be incorrect, but that's all my post was meant to say - precisely what it said.  :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 8:55am
Sorry if I misunderstood your post.
 
Maybe the streets would qualify if we....

We've come to expect that the "solutions" to Climate Change will be high tech--floating windmills, underwater generators, and nano solar in the Jules Verne/James Bond tradition--or at least high concept (carbon credit trading). But this week Energy Secretary and Nobel Prize winner Steve Chu is in Europe extolling the benefits of ... white roofs. The concept is simple but the numbers he cites are massive: Making roofs and pavement more reflective could offset 44 billion tons of CO2, or the equivalent of taking all of the world's cars off the road for 11 years. (While these numbers appear huge, there's no mention of the time frame, so they're not comparable to other numbers.)

Even so, these numbers are an interesting reflection of how much we've re-engineered the planet and climate already, and how we might start to mitigate that. Chu seems to want us to understand this as a category-jumper, working on climate in a different way than changing energy sources or sequestering carbon, and so he describes increasing the albedo (reflectivity) of buildings and pavements as "geo-engineering."

I guess it's predictable that some media are already making fun of Chu. Perhaps the idea is too simple and sensible, or just too eggheaded. (In California a related proposal to require that car roofs be more reflective as part of the state's climate policy became controversial. There's something about the brainy dumbness of the idea that doesn't float politically.) Over at google's geo-engineering forum, though, they're worried that the reception for Chu's idea is an indication of the ridicule the public may heap upon heavier geo-engineering against climate change--things like stratospheric aerosols and cloud whitening. A few years ago, discussing geo-engineering in polite company was pretty much off limits because it muddied up the discussion about when to take action on climate change. But as action has been delayed, and fear has grown, the concept has moved steadily towards the far outskirts of the center. Chu's use of the term geo-engineering in this relatively benign context is an indication of where the discussion is headed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote General Patton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 9:28am
How interesting are the City staff priorities for utilizing $180,000+ in supplementary CDBG funding??  Paving alleys and installing additional playground apparatus may placate some Ward 2 factions, but are those expenditures the highest priority of the City of Middletown??  I fully expect the City Council tonight to rubber-stamp this proposal.
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