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Picard not running again....

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buddhalite View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jun 06 2017 at 6:40pm
Who's gonna take his place?

I vote for......

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 6:04am
Bob. you have my vote should you decide to run. We need more people on council like we currently have to guide us down the right path. History and past results have told us we are on the right road to recovery for the city. Just look at how well the city has done the last three decades with the type of people we have put behind that council desk. Stay the course Bob. Full speed ahead with your agenda. Remember, the city leaders are always right and have the city and it's residents as their main focus.

If the news that we are losing Danny Picard is true, we could sure use another one just like him. Hate to lose a person who has done so much for the city during his tenure as a councilman. A great follower for sure.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 8:44am
I appreciate Dan's service to his community.  He didn't say much, which often made him come across as indifferent, uninterested or uninformed.  But I don't think that was the case at all.

Most recently, his comments on the Metro Park River Center deal/project in relationship to wanting $ from the city nailed it.

My guess is that you will see a couple of younger folk (27-45) run for the seat, which would be a good thing.  
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John Beagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

I appreciate Dan's service to his community.  He didn't say much, which often made him come across as indifferent, uninterested or uninformed.  But I don't think that was the case at all.

Most recently, his comments on the Metro Park River Center deal/project in relationship to wanting $ from the city nailed it.

My guess is that you will see a couple of younger folk (27-45) run for the seat, which would be a good thing.  

Yea, we don't need any 60 something running for office. Wink
John Beagle
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News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio.
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buddhalite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 3:55pm
Agreed - someone from the younger generation would be ideal....so who's it going to be?

Plus - his term expires 12/31/17....meaning the election is this November and the filing deadline is August 24th.....not only is Mr. Picard's term expiring, but so is Mrs. Bronston's term.

Who is gonna take the bull by the horns and run with this?

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whistlersmom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 7:48pm
OK Buddha

We knew Picard was not going to run again. Agree with Vet, you should run! BTW, Picard has had as much or more thoughtful input as any other council member. But we do need younger energetic people on council who will not be “bobble heads.” And most importantly, they must keep themselves thoroughly informed about the issues and ordinances they will be asked to consider. They should ask questions and join discussion in council meetings if they have ANY doubt about any issue. That would require knowing when clarification is needed and what questions should be asked.

But first let’s address some unfinished business … your quit of and rapid return to this forum.

You said:

“Well John,

Make all the fun you want.  I'm not scared of your petty little insults.  You have no idea who I am nor what I am capable of.”

That sounds like a threat !!!   Obviously you have not scared us.   But, maybe you should explain just who you are and what you are capable of. And petty insults FROM your direction have been answered in kind at times.

You said: “ It is a shame that someone can't just have a differing opinion and method without being shouted down.”

So, YOUR differing opinion, among all the other differing opinions expressed here, is the only one that should automatically be accepted as gospel? You are starting to sound like city hall. They would prefer our silence to having our opinions expressed on this forum. Thankfully we do have this forum where everyone has a voice if they so chose.

You said: “This is one of the more viewed topics - because some solutions are being presented - people are finding out that there's folks here who actually care about the city more than their overly petty complaints.”

What solutions? And if you think our complaints are so petty, why are you so adamantly opposed to us expressing them? Your comments which are so glibly told, are the only ones worth posting???   For years we have continually stated what we see as problems which need to be addressed. If we didn’t care deeply about our city we wouldn’t be here at all.

You said: “I'm beginning to think that this forum may be part of the reason that this city can't get anywhere.  Too much bickering over the past - not enough outlook for the future.”

There is good reason why we refer to the past.   It’s to compare the present poor condition of the city with the “good” past when we had good schools, good jobs (with industries located in town), broad tax base and great amenities … like swimming pools, golf course, choices for shopping, money in the city coffers… etc.

A housing deficit didn’t exist then!!! Ooooh, then the city brought in Section 8 housing thinking that they could bring money in through that program, but instead they succeeded in making Middletown a ghetto. AK Corporate Offices moved out taking most of our high end jobs with them. Their white collar work force moved out too. Then we continued to lose industry, commercial and retail businesses and more residents who had to go elsewhere for employment. City coffers dwindled to nothing because we had no tax base. Section 8 housing attracted lower income people or people without jobs who are inherently prone to becoming drug addicts who resort to thievery to maintain their habit. The current murder rate in Middletown is above the rate of all of last year and could be directly related to the Section 8 debacle.


And you said “This topic is almost #2 in all time views on this forum (from what I can see - no report to view, just anecdotal evidence and it's only 2.5 weeks old) - and was headed for #1 - but who cares anymore.”

If you think so little of this forum why are you back? So far you have only revisited and bickered about what we have already discussed many times and have presented the facts to back it up.. The city has been unable to refute our claims. The reason there are so many viewings is ... city hall ‘s trolls were viewing that topic so often. Perhaps they are looking for someone they think they can groom and support to become another bobble head council member. I predict their success.. They can offer you many things but to whom much is given much is required. Hopefully you will see through this ploy if it is attempted.

This is not the first time you threatened to quit this board, then cried wolf and expected to be placated and patted on the head. That is what city hall will do unless you wake up to their method of operation. Beware of those who are bearing gifts.   If and when they apply the blinders it could become an easy slide into the city quagmire and you may begin to believe everything they tell you just because they are the powers that be.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing" Edmond Burke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 9:01pm
Bob:

"Agreed - someone from the younger generation would be ideal......"

Doesn't matter the age IMO. An older person is totally capable of doing what a younger person can do on council. What matters is the attitude and doing right by the people under the pressure that will come their way if they don't play the game willingly. Will the person, regardless of age, cower down to the council internal pressure to conform or will they choose to act independently and be their own person, and, more importantly, will they be strong enough to withstand the barrage of lecturing behind the scenes if their comments aren't in line with the city doctrine?

Josh Laubach was a young man in his 30's when he was elected and sat behind the council desk. He started out like a ball of fire asking many questions that went against the mainstream on council. He was not a rubber stamper. The people supported Josh in the early days until, suddenly, he started backing off the anti-theme rhetoric, became silent, and eventually succumbed to the backroom politics of council. Anita Scott-Jones started the same way asking questions in council meetings. She too became silent after awhile.

When Josh had his community forums at Wildwood Country Club (and the Seniors Center) years ago, it was attended by Larry Mulligan and Anita Scott-Jones. I was there and witnessed their presence. I would suspect they were there to monitor what the new council member had to say and how he handled anti-city questions. Mulligan seems to like control. Mulligan also appears to be the overseer of council activities. Not surprisingly, there have been no community forums since the Laubach days. Current councilmembers either are not interested in listening to the people's concerns OR....it was decided back then that there will be no interaction between members of council and the public outside council chambers. Either way, it is a disservice to the public not to entertain a question and answer session occasionally between ALL councilmembers and their constituents. It sends a message that city council is not interested in serving the people of this city.......only the backroom agenda they are told to support. This is rather obvious with their overwhelming "yea" rubber stamp votes and lack of discussion with every agenda item in each council meeting.

We need more inquisitive Laubachs and less Mulligans (both Larry and Joe), Bohannons, Picards, Bronstons and Moons and the other cloned rubber stampers who seem to get elected every time. They add no value nor diverse thinking to the effectiveness of council. Council meetings are nothing more than pre-arranged, pre-agreed upon yea votes to support what they are told to support to officially document the MMF/Adkins/Mulligan/pet project agenda. It is a procedural circus of going through the motions to appease the public.

It doesn't have to be like this if we remove the puppets we have now, and replace them with people who can actually think independently and competently without the city manager running the whole show. Open discussion/questions about agenda items would do wonders on the trust factor scene as well. The underlying intimidation factor must be eliminated on council as well to allow members to speak freely. Otherwise, more of the same and we have all seen what that has gotten us over the years.   
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 11:23pm
Whistlers Mom,

Please excuse me - I am not as informed as you are.  I just thought it was something worth pointing out that he made that announcement at the council meeting last night - and it's worth mentioning simply because someone needs to replace him - and if you really want change like I do - we need to figure out who's gonna run and get it done - there's not much time between now and November.

Whenever I post my opinion, you, VietVet and a couple others start belittling me, calling me 'Bobby' and trying to make me out (I suppose simply because I'm a new comer - for the second time in my life to Middletown) and since I wasn't here I am in some way not down for the struggle.

Oh well - I just got tired of wading through the insults trying to find the meat of each persons posts.

WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT ME TO RUN?!?!?!  With the way you treat me on this forum - I have to assume that statement was meant as a joke.

There are solutions.  The downtown master plan should be tabled.  Downtown monies should be carefully scrutinized - and if we are pushed into dealing with nuisance properties - easiest cheapest way out always best.  Furthermore - all of downtown should be razed - with the push toward industry and businesses that need large space and parking for employees.  Let's put the property to better use.  Let's maybe turn it all in to solar fields and power our community with less help from CG&E.  Run the Section 8 problem out - and turn the houses over to investors at bargain basement prices and let the market figure it out.  Deal with the problems and focus on the development of the community.  Discourage builders from coming to Middletown - but realize that right now there's no demand for housing in Middletown.  We need to thin out the housing stock we have - before we build more.  Thinning out the stock is the shorter answer.  Encourage and incentivize businesses (especially retail) to build here where they bring hundreds of jobs with each store.  Get more east end retail/professional dev - and rebuild the industrial side of the city - both bringing thousands of jobs.  You want to fix this town - I'm telling you jobs are the key.  Jobs = tax revenues from all sources.  The more the merrier.

The problem with expressing the past is that it has no bearing on the solution.  Notice in the last paragraph - no reference to the past - just looking toward the future.

The reason I am back, just for your edification is that I really put forth some effort into starting another forum where I felt we could have rules and more productive discussions (even registered a domain name and even began design on the site) when I realized that free speech is always better.  And - it's not fair to Mr. John that I try to steal his thunder and his traffic to another site.

FWIW - I sound nothing like City Hall - because here all I thought they were was a quiet, speechless rubber stamp.  but now - they sound like something?  I'm confused. 

Yes, I know I quit - and I came back.  The reason is that it's easy to say anything here - under the cloak of anonymity - but its hard to do it face to face.  And that's why I'm back.  I'm here and I'm going to council meetings - and if I can find a way to make my candidacy palatable to enough people I might just even run for office.  I have no need to be 'placated and patted on the head' but I am at odds with the methods being employed here by certain people.  It's just unbecoming.

We are supposed to be adults - so let's act like it.  By now - someone on this board (especially since I was in the dark and people have known forever that Picard wasn't running again) should already have declared and we shhould be helping them with their platform and arranging meetings in homes, coffee shops, churches, wherever to help them get known in the city and get elected in November.  But - that's not happening and it saddens me.  

Let's get to work on getting our candidate elected.  

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2017 at 11:43pm
VietVet,

I agree - age really doesn't matter - but I think that the best way (considering the current state of council) for someone to really offer a huge contrast to the status quo - would be for it to be someone from a younger generation....the 30-50 yr olds....maybe even 30-40 aged.

After having read the charter (wow - what a long document) and reading days and days worth of material from this site - I am a bit perplexed.  

Now - don't take what I am about to say as a complaint about anything - just trying to set up my question) - we have what I have always termed a 'Strong Manager/Weak Council' system here.  By that I mean that the City Manager is supposed to be a super strong, intelligent, wise and street-wise person who really, by himself is managing all aspect of the city in the place of a strong Mayor  and council.  So - it has been alleged here that we have a 'rubber-stamp' council - but in all actuality - that's what our charter calls for.  The council - from what I read and remember (but it was late at night and I was half-asleep) is weak by its design - and basically just checks and balances against the strong Manager.

Am I right?  I think my assumption is right - but then there's still some rumbling about voting out the council - but I'm not sure what actual effect it has.  Wouldn't the proper solution be to be change the City Manager? 

I'm not advocating it (I don't have a fully formed opinion of the Manager just yet) just looking for the pathway to achieving a better city - and if I read the charter correctly - only council can remove him....so it's going to take quite a change in the council to make something like that happen....

Which is why I continue to make the point that we have got to learn how to get along with the current council - how to get to them and get them to consider and understand other points of view - to get a majority of council members elected and installed that want the same things we want - it'll be 2020 at the very least.

Anyway - I want to be sure I have surmised the situation properly - and am hoping that someone here will stand up and throw their hat in the ring and we can work to get them elected in November.

Bob
Buddhalite - about 50 pounds short of a full buddha, but was 30 over so the diet is working! Never mind - diet quit working, but then again, I quit the diet! :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2017 at 6:12am
Bob:
"There are solutions. The downtown master plan should be tabled. Downtown monies should be carefully scrutinized - and if we are pushed into dealing with nuisance properties - easiest cheapest way out always best. Furthermore - all of downtown should be razed - with the push toward industry and businesses that need large space and parking for employees. Let's put the property to better use. Let's maybe turn it all in to solar fields and power our community with less help from CG&E. Run the Section 8 problem out - and turn the houses over to investors at bargain basement prices and let the market figure it out. Deal with the problems and focus on the development of the community. Discourage builders from coming to Middletown - but realize that right now there's no demand for housing in Middletown. We need to thin out the housing stock we have - before we build more. Thinning out the stock is the shorter answer. Encourage and incentivize businesses (especially retail) to build here where they bring hundreds of jobs with each store. Get more east end retail/professional dev - and rebuild the industrial side of the city - both bringing thousands of jobs. You want to fix this town - I'm telling you jobs are the key. Jobs = tax revenues from all sources. The more the merrier"

Good overview. That's why you should run for council. You have a grasp on the overall issues in the city and you seem to have the passion and interest to pursue those issues.

Bob:
"WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT ME TO RUN?!?!?! With the way you treat me on this forum - I have to assume that statement was meant as a joke"

No joke. Run for office Bob. Be strong. Don't show weakness and play the victim here by saying "the way you treat me" statements.

Bob:
"Whenever I post my opinion, you, VietVet and a couple others start belittling me, calling me 'Bobby'......"

Bob....Robert....Bobby....all used as your first name, right? Look at your caption at the end of each post. You belittle yourself as to weight. You are doing to yourself, the same thing you are accusing us of doing here. And there you go again with the victim routine...."a couple others start to belittle me".....be strong Bob. Tell us to go to he-- if the teasing upsets you. The meek will never inherit the earth. Be more like Patton and get rid of the "feelings hurt/victim" theme.

Bob:
"We are supposed to be adults - so let's act like it."

Thank you for the reminder. I will try to correct the error of my ways.



I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2017 at 6:37am
Bob:
"The council - from what I read and remember (but it was late at night and I was half-asleep) is weak by its design - and basically just checks and balances against the strong Manager."

Council has never offered checks and balances against the city manager. They go along with the gameplan and ask no questions OR, if they do, they receive the same treatment that Josh Laubach received.

Bob:
"Am I right? I think my assumption is right - but then there's still some rumbling about voting out the council - but I'm not sure what actual effect it has. Wouldn't the proper solution be to be change the City Manager?"

Recall all of council. Replace with competent, independent thinking, non MMF-cloned people who will not be intimidated by any city manager and their methods of operation nor will they follow the MMF doctrine. After seating the new council, fire the current city manager due to incompatibility. Council hires a new city manager with a cooperative style of working together, no vindictiveness and inclusion of the council and the residents. No hidden agendas. No special projects for special friends of the city. No entire focus on just the downtown but rather the whole city. No Historical Committee nonsense. No inner circle nonsense. No meetings between council meetings to discuss how they want to vote. An above board, non-hidden way of operating.

Bob:
"Which is why I continue to make the point that we have got to learn how to get along with the current council - how to get to them and get them to consider and understand other points of view"

Not going to happen. Some of us on this forum will never agree to get along with the current crop of council members. Can't get to them. They don't care Bob about what the people think. They are locked into their agenda and will not change. Like some of us here, they have a closed mind as well. Next time you decide to speak at the podium for your three minutes of fame, look at their faces and their inattentiveness to what you are saying. You will see blank stares of indifference and guaranteed no comment after you speak. They do not want to be engaged with the people. They could care less about the citizens. They do not represent any of us and are just there to make official, the plans laid out before them with no comments or questions necessary. Been happening for years.   
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote da120757 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 13 2017 at 6:21pm
Guess that leaves me out since I will be turning 60 soon :)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 13 2017 at 8:20pm
They do not want to be engaged with the people. They could care less about the citizens. They do not represent any of us and are just there to make official, the plans laid out before them with no comments or questions necessary. Been happening for years. 

All I can say, viet, is that if you had actually bothered to show at tonight's get together at the wonderful and fantastic Java Johnny's - you wouldn't make that statement.

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 13 2017 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by buddhalite buddhalite wrote:

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><i style="">They do not want to be engaged with the people. They could care less about the citizens. They do not represent any of us and are just there to make official, the plans laid out before them with no comments or questions necessary. Been happening for years. </span>

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><i style="">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">All I can say, viet, is that if you had actually bothered to show at tonight's get together at the wonderful and fantastic Java Johnny's - you wouldn't make that statement.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Bob</span>


Different than what I described buddhalite? How did it go at your meeting? How many showed from this forum? Was it a pleasant discussion or were there some heated moments? Good reason I was not there....gotta caregive.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 13 2017 at 9:10pm
It was not at all as you described.  Read my other post at:

http://middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6476&title=you-missed-it

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2017 at 3:11pm
I guess I must have missed something along the way with Picard. I always watched or attended council meetings in the past. All I saw was a bumb on a long very limited input. Was not able (or not willing) to speak out during the HUD fiasco. I do remember him saying at the time to Doug A. When you know something,council should know also. But we all know what happened there. We still have never heard what the "special council " cost us tax payers. But hopefully we can have some one with a civic minded attitude to run for council. I do believe Doug is trying to turn things around and I will give credit where credit is due but when pushed to a corner I still see that old mentality come through. Rome wasn't built in a day and it will take time but I think we can have a great Middletown again in the future. JMO
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