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Roosevelt Demo
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Bill View Drop Down
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Joined: Nov 04 2009
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2010 at 7:24am
Vet, I understand.  When you combine a terrible present day situation in town with the losing of old landmarks, it must feel like a double punch to the gut.  I get a little of that feeling seeing Sunset Pool unused, seeing Dillard's empty (used to go there alot with family), and even seeing some of the upper end neighborhoods now look like places that have come down a notch or two.
 
However there is the occasional person on this board who feels landmarks should not be torn down and that "someone" could make a good X,Y, or Z out of it, even though the free market has deemed the location worthless.  A similar thing is happening in Cincinnati where the "Gamble house" (inventor of Ivory soap) is sitting there in a dilipated condition and his descendants want it torn down and will donate the land for a small park.  Sound great, right?  NO, some councilman who likes to spend everyone else's money, Charlie Winburn, is pushing to have the city spend $750,000 to buy it and turn it into a "museum."  (Crazy! Who will go see it?)
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Wots View Drop Down
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Bill
 
It was suggested turning it into a senior apartment type of building like it was done elsewhere. What studies were done to find another use for what I would consider a landmark building?
I understand that there is some artsy thing coming to town. If this ever gets off the ground I'm sure the patrons would have loved seeing that old building, instead of another green space.
Anything wrong with having a past to be proud of instead of taking the wrecking ball to it?
Anything wrong with preserving historic places?
 
"All these people living in the past.....Confused "   Along these lines how about paving over the old cemetery.
 
From where I am standing the city is quick on the trigger. Who is making the money on these demos?
 
 
So tell me
Is Middletown Cutting off the nose to spite the face?
Wots
Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Points: 7008 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2010 at 11:22am
Why am I sitting here thinking about the Pretenders song about going back to Ohio and the place was a parking lot? Someone call that up and post it from You Tube. Can't do You Tube here at work.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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WOTS they may seem to be quick at the trigger, but that is only due to the fact that past Admin. have been lackadaisical in doing their jobs.  The past is over with, it is the future that will draw new residents if the City can bring itself back into the 21st century.
 
How many Seniors that have graduated out of Middletown and gone on to college in the last 5 years are returning to live and work in Middletown.  Not many.  If you continue to live in your past your children with make their own future elsewhere.
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Bill View Drop Down
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2010 at 12:34pm
Wots, who exactly would "turn it into" something?  I'm not real familiar with senior housing but since most of it involves HUD money due to the # of seniors with lower income, disabilities, etc. there are specific criteria for these kind of projects.  Usually new construction would be done.  Also, to renovate with all that asbestos, mold, etc? Not a chance.  Again, lots of pie in the sky talk about alternate uses but no one does anything.  Wasn't Sam Ashworth heading up a group that was looking into this?  No results.  Maybe if it was in a better area wth more business interest, there could be some options, but this is Middletown, Ohio we're talking about, not South Beach, Connecticut or southern California.
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Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
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We waited more than 2 years since Roosevelt has been empty to tear it down, to give the Historical Society time to look into the feasibility of "turning it into something." They raised money to do a study. The study revealed that it would cost millions of dollars to turn Roosevelt into multi-use office space, and that the project would only be marketable if the School District moved its central administrative offices there, and paid rent. Right now, although the administrative offices are barely adequate, we own the building and therefore do not pay rent, just utilities and maintenance. There is no money in the budget to pay rent for administrative offices.
 
As for senior housing, several casual observers have suggested that, but again there is no market.  As Doug Adkins' recent report in connection with Section 8 showed, there is a huge surplus of rental units in Middletown.  There is also a surplus of large, empty unused office/industrial buildings. There is just no market demand for used office or residential. It would be difficult to finance a renovation on speculation of renting once renovated. Also, back when the original elementary building project was planned, Roosevelt was evaluated and it was found that it would cost more to renovate it and bring it up to current state standards for schools, than to build new.  The students who used to go to Roosevelt elementary now attend Highview, for the most part. The district reduced from 10 old elementary buildings to 6 new and 2 renovated elementary buildings. They have all won energy-efficiency awards and saved the district several hundred thousand dollars in utilities costs already.
 
I cannot speak to the buildings the City is tearing down, but would guess that similar considerations are in play.  And AK is a private business tearing its own headquarters down, not the City or the School District.  I can only assume that AK tried to sell the property before it started demolition.
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randy View Drop Down
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Points: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2010 at 2:56pm
Just for you Vet
 
 
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2010 at 4:05pm
Mrs. Andrew is right on the money here with not only Old School Buildings but all buildings in Middletown that have out lived there useful life.  If you do not have someone in the wings with the money to rehab these places into usable Office space they need to go.  All you need to do is look at Sorg when you sell a building to someone that dosen't have the financial resources to bring it back to life in a reasonable amount of time.
 
We also don't need anymore Low income anything in Middletown we have far to much already and need to do away with much of it.
 
 
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Thank you randy!

Good explanation Ms. Andrew on the economics of old versus new. You, Bill and Pac make sense on this. Just hard for us older citizens to let go. Hope you understand the sentiment we have for some things in our hometown. As I tried to explain to Bill, when the buildings are torn down, it's almost like the demolition of some of our memories go with them to the landfill. Corny...maybe, but tugs at the old emotions a little.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Points: 7008 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2010 at 4:25pm
Did many a study hall in that auditorium 409. Played the old trumpet on that stage facing that balcony too. Guess the stage is under that pile of rubble somewhere. Thanks again for the pictures and memories.

Save the cupola! (Clock tower- Back To The Future)
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TudorBrown View Drop Down
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Points: 265 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 3:03pm
Old School Buildings: Prehistoric or Worth Preserving?

A report from the National Trust for Historic Preservation (NTHP) makes a case for renovating old school buildings instead of razing them. Although demolition might be the wisest choice in some instances, the NTHP offers resources for helping school boards decide whether to raze or renovate. Education World spoke with members of three communities that have faced that dilemma. Included: Resources from the NTHP and the National Clearinghouse on Educational Facilities.



http://www.educationworld.com/a_issues/issues172.shtml
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TudorBrown View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Bill Bill wrote:

It's like the building of the new elementaries -- some people would rather pay for the constant upkeep of the old buildings and the exorbitant cost to wire it for computers, take care of mold, leaking roofs, etc. instead of spending the same or less for new buildings.  Plus the state kicked in most of the money. 


Are you claiming that it would cost more to renovate Roosevelt than it would to tear the school down and build some disposable looking new building that could never ever compare to Roosevelt's beauty, and quality of construction?
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 13 2010 at 3:29pm
Tudor I believe that is exactly what Mrs. Andrew is saying as far as Roosevelt is concerned.
 
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Roosevelt was evaluated and it was found that it would cost more to renovate it and bring it up to current state standards for schools, than to build new. 
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TudorBrown View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

Tudor I believe that is exactly what Mrs. Andrew is saying as far as Roosevelt is concerned.
 
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Roosevelt was evaluated and it was found that it would cost more to renovate it and bring it up to current state standards for schools, than to build new. 


I have a hard time believing the cost of demolition, and rebuilding is more than renovation... Confused
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viper771 View Drop Down
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Points: 221 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viper771 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 14 2010 at 1:59am
I am with you on that in some ways Tudor. They do it all the time in Europe when they can among other places. Besides, a lot of materials in new construction aren't even made in the US (look at a box of nails or screws for instance) :( A lot of these old places were made to last. The materials used back then are not as abundant anymore either. I am kind of surprised that more renovation isn't going on, since the "going green" stuff is in.
 
As for the school, if there was a demand, I could see whoever gutting the building, leaving the shell..then just revamping it to whatever they wanted it to be. At least it would be pretty much a "new" building, with the original old exterior. But, I know that you can't save everything. I tried to restore a 68 GTO convertible, but she was just too far gone... I could have done it, but it would have really cost a truck load of money. So I just try to fix up my old house :)
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Wots View Drop Down
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Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

WOTS they may seem to be quick at the trigger, but that is only due to the fact that past Admin. have been lackadaisical in doing their jobs.  The past is over with, it is the future that will draw new residents if the City can bring itself back into the 21st century.
 
How many Seniors that have graduated out of Middletown and gone on to college in the last 5 years are returning to live and work in Middletown.  Not many.  If you continue to live in your past your children with make their own future elsewhere.
b
Me thinks your being a bit to presumptuous. If by living in my past means I enjoy old architectural buildings, then I am guilty as charged. And what on Gods green acre do my kids have to do with this?
 
I would not call the previous administrations lackadaisical. I would call it gross incompetence, being the cause of many things gone wrong.  Instead of doing updates thru the years IE new electrical, plumbing, asbestos removal etc.
 
Instead of addressing the issues, it is kicked down the road to the point that it is cheaper to do a tear down.
 
So tell me
Is Middletown Cutting off the nose to spite the face?
Wots
Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Wots Wots wrote:

Me thinks your being a bit to presumptuous. If by living in my past means I enjoy old architectural buildings, then I am guilty as charged. And what on Gods green acre do my kids have to do with this?
 
I would not call the previous administrations lackadaisical. I would call it gross incompetence, being the cause of many things gone wrong.  Instead of doing updates thru the years IE new electrical, plumbing, asbestos removal etc.
 
Instead of addressing the issues, it is kicked down the road to the point that it is cheaper to do a tear down.
 
So tell me
Is Middletown Cutting off the nose to spite the face?
 
WOTS, do you really think you and I are the future of this city and not the Children that are born and raised here?  If you do not think the children are the future you are sadly mistaken.  My teen has already told me he will be leaving when he graduates as Middletown has nothing to offer the younger generation.
 
You also don't seem to think that most Middle Class homeowners are not looking for modern up to date schools for their children, that they are instead like you looking for schools built a century ago.  The fact that you like old architecture has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for a younger generation and the future growth of Middletown.
 
Middletown has cut off it's nose to spite it's face many years ago and refuses to seen the plastic surgeon to have the damage repaired.  This in many instances is the fault of the older generation who can't see the Forrest for the trees and continues with the wearing of blinders when it comes to bringing Middletown into at least the late 20th century.
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