LAYOFF 11 FIREFIGHTERS
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Manager
Forum Description: Discuss the city manager administration including all city departments.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5812
Printed Date: Apr 27 2024 at 5:49pm
Topic: LAYOFF 11 FIREFIGHTERS
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Subject: LAYOFF 11 FIREFIGHTERS
Date Posted: Jul 26 2014 at 6:22am
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Sponsored By: Posted: 6:38 p.m. Friday, July 25, 2014 Eleven Middletown firefighters given layoff notices
By Staff Report MIDDLETOWN — A deadline is approaching for the city and firefighters union to reach a deal to prevent job losses and cut costs. On Friday, 11 Middletown firefighters received layoff notices in anticipation that no solution will be found in time. They will be laid off at 7 p.m. Aug. 16 if nothing changes between now and then. “Middletown Firefighters Union tries to remain hopeful that the city and they will be able to keep from laying off,” reads a statement provided by the union. “However, those given layoff notices are already out applying for other jobs to make sure they can support their families at the end of the day.” Public safety cuts are being made to help reduce the city’s general fund expenditures by $2.25 million over the next two to three years, officials previously said. A total of 15 positions are being eliminated from the Middletown Division of Fire’s budget. Four positions will be reduced through retirements, said Chris Klug, president of the firefighters union. Middletown last laid off six firefighters in 2012 but were able to bring back those firefighters when they were awarded a federal grant. That grant runs out on Aug. 6, Klug said. “We looked at concessions, doing a grant extension, any possible variety of ways to keep this from happening,” Klug said. Assuming layoffs occur, Station 84 on Tytus Avenue will be closed and all other stations will be staffed with three personnel that will cross-staff a fire engine and medic unit, according to the union. When responding to an emergency, crews will take the most appropriate vehicle and leave the other. The Journal-News was unable reach city officials before deadline late Friday. |
Replies:
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 26 2014 at 6:38am
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From 2000 to 2014, the police budget has increased $2.6 million or 28 percent, while the fire budget has gone from $7 million to $9 million, or 30 percent. |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Jul 26 2014 at 10:02am
| Would a wage freeze of ALL city employees be a viable answer for saving jobs? If they can operate at current levels then you may be able to at least save some from being laid off. They should be happy to save their jobs and forgo wage increases for now. Freezes should go all the way to the top including our new city manager. Just wondering. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 27 2014 at 7:38am
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Posted: 12:00 a.m. Sunday, July 27, 2014 City, fire union looking for alternatives to layoffs
Eleven firefighters have been given layoff notices
By Amanda Seitz Staff Writer MIDDLETOWN — City officials and union leaders say they’re working to avoid the layoffs of 11 Middletown firefighters before an August deadline. Firefighters were given layoff notices last week that would take effect at 7 p.m. Aug. 16, if officials can’t reach a deal. A total of 15 firefighter positions are threatened to be eliminated from the Middletown Division of Fire’s budget. Four positions will be reduced through retirements, said Chris Klug, president of the firefighters union. “Middletown Firefighters Union tries to remain hopeful that the city and they will be able to keep from laying off,” a statement, released Friday, by the union said. “However, those given layoff notices are already out applying for other jobs to make sure they can support their families at the end of the day.” Public safety cuts are being made to help reduce the city’s general fund expenditures by $2.25 million over the next two to three years, officials previously said. “Nobody wants to lay people off, nobody wants to reduce services but sometimes financial reality is just financial reality,” Les Landen, the law director for the city, said Saturday. “Hopefully we can get something that we all think is a little better than this. We’re going to do the best we can do.” He said city officials and union representatives are still actively negotiating in hopes of brokering a deal before Aug. 16. The fire department only employs full-time crew and Landen said union officials have not been receptive to the idea of replacing some of the laid off staff with part-time workers. Middletown last laid off six firefighters in 2012 but were able to bring back those firefighters when they were awarded a federal grant. That grant runs out on Aug. 6, Klug said. “We looked at concessions, doing a grant extension, any possible variety of ways to keep this from happening,” Klug said. If the city decides to move forward with layoffs, one of the city’s five fire stations — Station 84 located at Tytus Avenue — will close. The remaining four stations will be staffed with three personnel that will maintain a fire engine and medic unit, according to a statement from the union. Emergency crews will respond to situations with the most appropriate vehicle. Landen said he does not believe the layoffs or closure of the fire station will directly impact city residents’ safety. He said tasks such as firefighter training and the frequency of fire hydrant flushing are some of the things that will be directly impacted with the layoffs. He said the city fire chief has come up with the proposed model, once the layoffs occur, as a result of recent cuts department funding in recent years. “Do I think it makes us unsafe; that’s the better question,” Landen said. “No, I don’t think it makes us unsafe. I don’t think the (fire) chief would be doing this if it was unsafe.” |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 27 2014 at 8:30am
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Nope. Not acceptable city leaders. Safety of the people is a number one priority and the safety levy approved a few years back was to MAINTAIN the safety force. Ya can't do without fire and police, especially since you invited more crime to town with your ghetto theme. We also need to have people who can deal with the saturation of drug infestation going on in town. Layoff some of the 5 and 6 figure paper shufflers in the city building and streamline your operation. Keep the people who actually make a difference for the people and eliminate repetitive "pass the paper up the ladder/pass the paper down the ladder" nonsense. Ya don't need assistant directors, managers or multiple layers of management in a small operation like the city building. Let that crap exist in Corporate America where they have money to throw away. You don't have that luxury. I'm not a fan of any union but we do need these services staffed adequately based on the need. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 27 2014 at 5:48pm
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Cut the fire men. . 80% of activity is ambulance, not fire, and runs with 2-3 trucks, ambulances. Nonsensical and enormous burden of overhead. Reduce force augment with part-time and volunteers. The city of Middletown has made no serious cuts in 30 years. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 27 2014 at 6:21pm
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Still maintain the suggestion that cutting management paper shufflers in any organization is the prudent thing to do. Eliminates the cost of high salaries/benefits packages and paying people big bucks to attend meetings on an endless basis. It eliminates unnecessary layers of duplicate functions and prevents the always present competition among middle management to outdo one another for the sole purpose of gaining the favor of the CEO. (Acclaro, you and I know this as we both worked for P&G at GO or one of the tech centers, and saw, first hand, the endless layers of middle management).I believe you mentioned you were a brand manager at one time. Example, using P&G's management positions at the tech center locations from lowest to highest: Staff Engineer-Group Leader-Section Head-Assoc. Director-Director-VP, all at tech center level-Group VP at GO level-Executive VP at GO level-Senior VP at GO level-President at GO level-CEO. Why? Most important benefit of cutting management is keeping boots on the ground on the front line who are the first responders to serve the people. We don't need more back line administration huddled in city building offices, we need people in the field who actually do the work. This is the problem with any organization including the city building hierarchy.....too top heavy with Senior/Middle Managers and Directors who have multiple assistants to the assistants who drink coffee, suck on donuts, make a few phone calls, have a meeting or two deciding to decide later, and call it a day to the tune of a six figure salary. In typical fashion, they want to cut where the need is the greatest....ie, providing support for the people. This is what happens in a typical downsizing too. The little guy who does the work always get shown the door while they keep the overpriced multi-layer managers who are professional meeting attenders. Why? You can save 3 workers by laying off 1 middle manager. Would that manager be missed? I doubt it. Would you lose any performance in your organization? Probably not as those managers who remain can pick up the slack. Might earn their pay for a change. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 27 2014 at 8:38pm
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Crime is much more an issue in Middletown than fires or ambulance runs. The added FTE's came about from federal grants that the city cannot sustain nor absorb. The fire department refused to allow part-time workers in, and they adamantly opposed SR5. Police over fire fighters, especially for those funded initially from federal funding. If they seriously wanted to solve the problem, they had the solution in SR5.
------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 27 2014 at 8:51pm
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Ok, keep the cops for crime and downsize the fire department, minimizing the optimal response time. Either way, I still prefer the downsizing of the city building management to keep fire/police on the streets. Workers over bureaucrats any day. All I know is if I call 911 and need a medic or ambulance run, which I have needed many times in the last 5 years, and they don't show in a reasonable response time, and the wife dies, the city is guaranteed a law suit. To date, the response time has been within 5-8 minutes from the call. If it goes 12-15 minutes, there may be an operational issue and if she doesn't make it one time, there will definitely be an issue. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Jul 28 2014 at 8:47am
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Vet, you've been singing this tune for years. While I can't say I know the exact # of city employees in the city building, I'm going to guess there's isn't a whole lot of fat in the budget. Hypothetically, even if you could cut 2-3 manager level types, that money won't come anywhere near the amount needed to keep all the public safety staff.
I'm with acclaro, we need cops more than fire.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 28 2014 at 11:44am
That's fine Neil. Still believe that the city building is no different than any other organization, be it private or public. From the eight companies I have worked for in the last 44 years, from small (300 or less employees) to large (100,000 worldwide), I have seen it loaded in the middle and at the top with multiple layers of management that often pass paperwork and conduct "deciding not to decide" meetings up and down the ladder. Worthless, expensive and inefficient. I think we can find some areas where this is so in the city building. Would surprise me if we couldn't double up on some of these Director/Manager position duties and let some go. Your choice also to agree with acclaro on keeping the cops and eliminating the fire people......UNTIL, you have an unforeseen emergency with a close family member that requires the medic/ambulance service as fast as they can get there-----IE- heart attack/stroke, etc. Then let's see if your opinion may differ on the need for the fire folks and a quick response caused by a sufficient number of people manning the equipment. Our family is grateful for the many 911 responses we have called for over the last 4-5 years. I pray you or anyone else here never has to use this service but we all never know do we? ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Neil Barille wrote:Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Jul 29 2014 at 9:46pm
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The cops are needed more than the firemen? Why do the dispatchers "stack" police calls while fire/ems calls are answered immediately? Even to the point where mutual aid is called to cover those multiple calls? Remember, while the number of fire fighter will go down, the amount of calls will, historically, increase. Which of course means more mutual aid. What happens when neighboring cities get tired of paying so Middletown can get coverage. Part-timers? Did you guys miss the front page article concerning part-timers? Departments are having trouble filling their part-time rosters. As a part-timer, would you want to work for less money in Middletown vs. a Liberty or West Chester Department and make more runs with Middletown? Some Chiefs complained about the increased cost of part-timers. Statistics say 50% of all people will need fire/ems in their lifetime. While you may not have used it to this point, odds are you are going to need it. My two cents. |
Posted By: AKBobby
Date Posted: Jul 30 2014 at 4:12pm
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well heck yeah I would rather have more cops than firemen! Have you been out in Middletown lately? You cant park a car for five minutes without it getting broken into or just go into a local fast food restaurant or Walmart and there is either a fight or something happening. I don't even like taking my kids out in town anymore. But I don't want to see firemen cut either. EMS is badly needed and saves lives, but make no mistake we need al the cops we can get ------------- AK - What is going on with that? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: Jul 30 2014 at 5:50pm
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Don't worry ashkicker, council will be too afarid to confront the union, and stage a tax increase on income here soon. Do you really believe Dan Picard won't swing the bat fo a homerun for you guys after all his campaign rhetoric? Hell, they'll have taxes at 2.75% income in a year. Marcia Andrew and the BOE (and property owners) better be as concerned about AK's acquistion of the Russian steel plant in Dearborn, now that they are pulling out of the US over concerns on sanctions and investors pulling out. That plant is non union, and AKS keeps having blasting furnaces fall apart, disrupting production. Guarantee AKS shifts local production up to Dearborn after SEC approves deal. When that happens, the loss of taxes on tangible inventory will be least of the district's problems. Middletown has a bad future outlook. Taxes will be the only solution. And with higher taxes goes more residents, and more businesses. AKS will push production in Michigan, less in Middletown, and less taxes on property and income (assets) will make for new buildings, and fewer students. Its falling apart all around the city. I agree with the other posters. If there are cuts, police carry guns, fire fighters don't. If I need an ambulance statistically once or twice in 80 years, zero to date, I like my odds with JEMS or an outsourcer.
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Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: Jul 30 2014 at 6:57pm
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Has anyone considered volunteer fire to fill the gap? It seems like 90% of Fire/EMS calls are non emergency transport to the hospital or false alarms at the Projects anyway. |
Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: Jul 30 2014 at 7:02pm
| Want to save money? Stop responding to all the blatantly NON-emergency 911 calls. |
Posted By: processor
Date Posted: Jul 31 2014 at 9:37am
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Dean, I don't know where you get your information regarding AK but the Dearborn facility is union...UAW. Why would AK shift production when their objective is to increase their sales. Production cost wise AK and Dearborn have got to be very close. AK serves many Michigan customers and Dearborn serves Ohio and south customers. My guess is that they will shift which plant serves which customer to minimize freight cost. Unless AK goes bankrupt there is no concern that the Middletown plant will shut down. |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Jul 31 2014 at 9:43am
| Processor: I really hope you're right. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 03 2014 at 7:41am
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Updated: 4:51 p.m. Friday, Aug. 1, 2014 | Posted: 12:00 a.m. Sunday, Aug. 3, 2014 Will a last-minute deal save firefighting jobs?
Middletown, union continue to talk in order to save jobs with little impact to the city’s budget.
By http://www.journal-news.com/staff/michael-d-pitman/" rel="nofollow - Staff Writer MIDDLETOWN — City and fire union leaders hope an 11th hour deal can be hammered out to avoid laying off 11 firefighters less than two weeks from now. A potential deal between the parties could involve incorporating part-time firefighters into the Middletown Division of Fire, which at present is totally full-time, union officials said. Meanwhile, city officials have refused to talk publicly about specific details of any potential compromise or agreement. City Manager Doug Adkins made only a brief mention of the negotiations at City Council’s retreat last week at Atrium Medical Center. “We have moved some brand new concepts on the floor and everybody, so far, has embraced them,” Adkins said. Both sides have until 7 p.m. Aug. 16 to work out a deal that avoids layoffs. City and union officials met Thursday morning to continue talk of a compromise. Adkins characterized the meeting as “productive” and stated another meeting is scheduled for Monday. He said he could “bring something to the executive session for (council) to discuss” as early as Tuesday’s council meeting. “Both sides are working very hard to reach an acceptable agreement to avoid layoffs,” the city manager said. “There is a strong potential that we can avoid layoffs without adding to our budget, which I think is good if we can work things out.” City officials are looking at fire department reductions to help fill gaps in the 2014 budget. Laying off 11 firefighters would save the city $920,514, according to Michelle Greis, city finance director. City officials could not make reductions to the fire department at the beginning of 2014 due to restrictions on grants the city received to pay for some fire staff positions. The city is also weighing whether to close Station 84 on Tytus Avenue as another cost-cutting measure. City officials had previously maintained that the fire union was unwilling to talk about concessions, which led to layoff notices being sent to 11 firefighters. Adkins said the fire union is “being incredibly reasonable” in this latest round of discussions. “They have brought cuts in places we didn’t think they’d ever go,” he said. But Greg Justice, a fire captain and president of the International Association of Fire Fighters Local 336, said it shouldn’t have taken this long or layoff notices for progress on negotiations to improve. “For the citizens of this community that depend on our services, and for the firefighters that provide those services to them, it’s just unfortunate that it’s come to the 11th hour, and the firefighters, quite frankly, have been surprised by it,” Justice said. “It’s hard to pick up your firefighting gear and go somewhere else and start over.” http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/city-fire-union-looking-for-alternatives-to-layoff/ngpB3/" rel="nofollow - but residents and Justice believe otherwise. The layoffs were announced by the IAFF Local 336 on July 25. The notice stated that 15 firefighter positions will be eliminated — as well as the closure of Station 84 that services the northern neighborhoods of Middletown — by Aug. 16. Closing the station, laying off 11 firefighters and eliminating four other firefighter positions through attrition, could save about $1 million in the city’s budget. It costs roughly $100,000 to employ and equip a firefighter, which four of those positions are funded via a federal staffing grant, and seven are funded by the general fund, according to fire Chief Steve Botts. Closing station 84, but keeping the utilities on while it’s unmanned, will save the city around $20,000, he said, and the savings is likely to double if the city mothballs the 1954-built station that is in need of significant repairs, such as its roof. The union presented a plan that would call for no new costs and avoid layoffs, but the city didn’t accept that deal, Justice said. He said “there is a glimmer of hope” that if the union accepts a city proposal incorporating part-time firefighters through attrition that the 11 firefighters set to be laid off won’t be given pink slips in order to make room in the city budget. The city of Middletown has cut, added and cut again from the front-line firefighting force over the past several years. In 2010, there were 80 full-time staff in the Middletown Division of Fire, including 60 firefighters, according to the department’s budget. Two years later, the department, due to City Council budget cuts, staffed 51 firefighters while the officer-level staffing remained steady at 20. Six firefighters were added in 2013 thanks to a federal staffing grant, but that grant expires on Aug. 6. The potential of firefighter cuts and the loss of a fire station has many residents in the city’s northern neighborhoods worried. Fire Station 84 is at the corner of Tytus Avenue and Jackson Street. It houses a fire truck and a reserve medic unit and is staffed by three personnel. There is also a three-story training facility in the back of the station. “It is a concern because I live right around the corner (from the station),” said Heather Huf, who lives on Manchester Road near Maple Park. “It’s very scary if there were to be a fire or any kind of an emergency. It’s a big concern for the city.” Brittnanny Fultz has lived on Webber Avenue since 2006 and is equally worried. “My mom recently passed and there were a lot of times that if there hadn’t been a firehouse close, that the medics wouldn’t have gotten here as fast as they did,” she said. “It’s just going to put more pressure on them to get to who’s hurt the worst. It’s a matter of life and death.” But Fultz has “faith that the economy will pick back up.” Ben Highley, who lives a couple houses down from Fultz, said there’s seemingly “a broad lack of support” for the fire and police service. “The lack of social services like this always serve to make us less safe,” he said. “I’m not happy about it. Those are the guys we’re telling our kids, ‘You want to grow up to be a hero, be a fireman, be a police officer so you an get laid off after 10 or 20 years on the force.’” Riverview resident Jeffery Chandler called the cuts “a shame.” “It concerns me a great deal,” he said. “At the council meetings, they have talked about it over and over and over, but there’s not been a way to get around the budget crisis of not having enough money to keep them all open.” But loosing the neighborhood firehouse shouldn’t happen. “This covers a great deal of area in this part of town. I just can’t see closing it … I just can’t agree with that,” Chandler said. DEPARTMENT RUNS 2010
2011
2012
2013
2014**
*EMS crews began tracking engine company medical assists since Feb. 1, 2013. An engine responded to 3,884 calls in 2013 and 2,205 calls through June 30, 2014 **As of June 30, 2014 Source: city of Middletown STAFFING 2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
*City documents show 15 fire personnel will be laid off in the fourth quarter. The Journal-News discovered that 11 firefighters received notices in late July they will be laid off as of Aug. 16 and the remaining four positions are currently unfilled. Source: city of Middletown BUDGET Here is the city of Middletown Division of Fire’s budgets since 2010. The budget amounts from 2010 to 2013 represent money actually spent while the amounts for 2014 represent money that is budgeted: 2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
Source: city of Middletown Finance Department |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 03 2014 at 11:56am
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Question for the union fire people who read this forum..... Does your operation really need 3 Deputy Chiefs, 4 Captains and 11 Lieutenants and their salaries and benefit costs? What does a Deputy Chief, a Captain and a Lieutenant do on a typical day in your operation? Could you get by and still maintain a certain degree of capability without these apparent top heavy positions? If we cut some of these types of administration positions, could we save the 11 firefighter's jobs? How about the "less bosses and more workers" mentality applied here? If this is not possible let's focus on the city building for cuts. City of Middletown leadership could cut some of the city building administrative fat (c'mon every company, every pubic/private organization has them). Could we use those salaries to keep the people who actually do something in the field rather than pay people mega-management salaries for sitting behind a desk passing paperwork around the office? How about cutting all the assistant managers in your building and not paying exorbatant fees for consultants and worthless studies now and then? Ya just hired another Econ. Dev. person to do......what? If you can hire people in the back door of the city building while keeping it under the radar most of the time, (we see the new hires in the city council agenda by the way, don't we?) you have enough money to keep the safety people on board with the citizen's safety in mind. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 03 2014 at 9:06pm
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There are three shifts or platoons. Each works every third day. First Platoon, Second Platoon and Third Platoon. Each platoon needs a boss, or Deputy Chief. There are currently three engine companies in the city. Each engine company has a boss, Captain or Lieutenant. Every engine company has three bosses (three platoons = three bosses) plus an additional Lieutenant to fill in for vacancies. Those three bosses consist of one captain and two lieutenants. The fourth captain is in charge of training and works a 40 hour schedule. Those officers are promoted from a competitive test. The question to be asked is if public safety is being cut because of a lack of money or the city's desire to put more money in the "rainy day fund". Do you find it strange that residents in the north end of town (that have been in the city for YEARS) already lost their engine company and are about to lose their medic unit while the newly annexed land on the east side of town continues to enjoy an engine company? Volunteers? Right. Towns and villages with volunteer departments are having a hard time filling their needs. How many people are willing to risk their lives to help others? Not many. Lets see a show of hands of posters on this board who are going to run to the city building for their volunteer application. I would advise everybody to stand back because acclaro will be busting down the doors to be first in line. After all, if Uncle Dave could do it, it must not be THAT hard! Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Aug 03 2014 at 11:44pm
| Ashkicker,The money is just not there. I hate that anyone has to lose their job but at a cost of $100,000 per person a year who can justify that??? Seriously. Vet, I know you use the ems service far more than anyone here but, can you justify the cost of this? Why do they send out a medic unit and a firetruck to almost every call? I don't want anyone to lose their job but I am tired of elected officials turning to the tax payers everytime they run out of money. -justonemiddiemom |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 04 2014 at 6:32am
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Thank you for the reply ashkicker. I have some questions/observations from your information. 11 Lieutenents are listed above. You mention shifts and platoons and that each engine company has three bosses. How many people are in a platoon? How many people constitutes an engine company? I am trying to find out if the fire department is set up like the Public Works department in the city building......IE The last time I participated in a city/citizen type meeting was years ago. In that meeting, they passed out some information pertaining to the manning of the Public Works Department. It showed that there was a Director of Public Works and several layers of management including a "working supervisor" to oversee three equipment operators and an admin. That scenario almost allows for a 1:1 ratio of worker to manager. That is unacceptable and should never happen.....anywhere. Could you tell us what the ratio of worker (actual firefighter/medic in truck and out in the field) to manager (IE- Deputy Chief, Captain, Lieutenant) is in the fire department. If it is close to a 1:1, 2:1, or 3:1 ratio, it is excessive and IMO, there needs to be an elimination of manager positions and a higher body count of worker in your department. What does a captain or lieutenant do during a typical shift? Do they do paperwork all shift? Do they get in a car and drive around the city doing "administrative things"? Do they actually don a mask and help the "worker bees" man the fire? Could we eliminate some lieutenant positions and still function? Why the need for a Deputy Chief, a captain and so many lieutenants for a three shift/platoon operation? Seems a tad bit top heavy to me. middiemom brought up a valid question and our family has had a fire truck dispatched along with the medic to take the wife to the hospital. I believe you have answered this before but I have forgotten your response. Why do they send a fire truck with the medic on a medical run? Can't the medic on the fire truck ride with the medic unit on the run and just bring one vehicle, saving money? Is this state mandated perhaps? Thanks in advance for you response. ashkicker: "The question to be asked is if public safety is being cut because of a lack of money or the city's desire to put more money in the "rainy day fund"." Reword this to say "the city's desire to put more money into their downtown dreams, support the "friends of city hall" and to cater to the S. Main St. people" Not only are you safety people being thrown under the bus, the entire city has been ignored and left to fend for themselves outside of the immediate downtown and S. Main St. area. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 04 2014 at 6:41am
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middiemom: "Vet, I know you use the ems service far more than anyone here but, can you justify the cost of this?" Let the city cut the services and gut the fire department and medic units until they bleed. All I know is that if I don't get a reasonable response when I call 911 and have to wait for 20-30 minutes, and she dies before they get there, the city will have a lawsuit on their hands guaranteed. middiemom, I still maintain that cuts can be made to admin./management positions in both the city building and probably in fire and police also. Streamline the paperpushers while keeping the people in the field and on the street. If need be, hire civilian paperpushers, at a much lower salary with/without bennies to handle the paperwork flow. Treat the manning of the paperwork aspect of the operation through an agency. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Aug 04 2014 at 8:23am
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This is a ridiculous discussion. Many of the number to be laid off were hired from a federal grant. When the grant expired, they could either pay from city funds they don't have., or make cuts. The city will be in red by $ Mm has not made serious cuts or structured itself properly in decades. If the city was growing, paving streets, and had a massive surplus, the matter will be resolved. Well, the city is failing and in decline. To appease the fire fighters, the city sold Weatherwax. The money isn't there, volunteers would be the answer or patr-timers,but the union wants numbers to go with a natural advancement path, just like all unions. The city will work it out, even if it reduced the rainy day fund to 10%/ . ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 04 2014 at 8:39am
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"The question to be asked is if public safety is being cut because of a lack of money or the city's desire to put more money in the "rainy day fund"." Ashkicker, City Hall has already raided this fund several years ago to cover payroll. I believe the current RAINY DAY FUND is at 15%.
Revenues and population of Middletown continue to decline while city hall, fire and police continue to get an increase in salaries and benifits. At some point in time we need to trim the fat and cut the waste, fix our streets and bring some jobs into this community. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: Aug 04 2014 at 12:20pm
| Middletown's problems are bloated overhead and incompetent city leaders, and council members that don't have a clue associated with oversight. Lethal combination which killed the city. Toxic. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 05 2014 at 8:44am
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"increase in salaries and benefits"? Fire fighters haven't seen a raise in years and probably will agree to a 0% pay increase for the next few years. Which benefits have increased? Please enlighten me. I would like to know what benefits I have been missing out on. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 05 2014 at 9:23am
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Okay VV, here we go --- I believe current numbers are as follows - First platoon has 24 personnel 1 Deputy Chief 1 Captain 4 Lieutenants 18 Fire Fighters Second Platoon has 23 personnel 1 Deputy Chief 1 Captain 3 Lieutenants 18 Fire Fighters Third Platoon has 24 personnel 1 Deputy Chief 1 Captain 3 Lieutenants 19 Fire Fighters An engine company consists of three personnel, a Captain or Lieutenant, a driver and a fire fighter. A medic consists of two fire fighters. Captain and Lieutenants are responsible for the daily activities at the station, managing personnel and paperwork. One Captain is responsible for the Haz-mat program, one is in charge of safety equipment, one does all the reporting to the state and the fourth is a 40 hour employee in charge of EMS and training. Officers never go out and "drive around". Leaving an engine company with two personnel puts that company out of service. The officer's job on an engine company is to go in the structure and extinguish the fire. Officers are a promoted position that lead the company on a daily basis. Could we remove Lieutenants and still function? Yes. Can you drive your car with three good tires and one flat tire? Yes, but it wouldn't drive as well. Same principle. The engine goes with the medic whenever dispatch sends a medic unit that could encounter a patient that could require more care than what two medic can administer. Probably 85-90% of those runs turn out not to need the additional personnel and the engine company is released. Better to have the personnel on the scene and not have to wait a couple of minutes when a patient really needs the additional care. Management has been working on ways to reduce the number of times engine companies respond. If the medic on the engine company rides with the medic unit, the engine company is out of service. A medic call could last up to an hour and a half and that would but an engine company out of service way too long. No state mandate. Any more questions? Ashkicker |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Aug 05 2014 at 11:40am
| The problem is that Middletown has lost a lot of good paying jobs and with delusional city leaders spending time,energy and funds on creating some fantasy land artsy educational center downtown, instead of trying to get some decent jobs to locate here we have no chance until we change direction. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 05 2014 at 7:31pm
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Ok ashkicker..... First Platoon: 6 management positions (Deputy Chief-Captain-Lieutenants) to 18 firefighters- Ratio of worker to management- 3:1- doable Second Platoon: 5 Managers to 18 workers-Similar to First Platoon Third Platoon: 5 Bosses and 19 workers. Very doable from a management standpoint I would imagine. Overall, it looks like you have a 3:1/4:1 ratio. Surely we can look at a minimum of 5:1 on manpower, can't we? "Captain and Lieutenants are responsible for the daily activities at the station, managing personnel and paperwork" Again something like a 3:1/ 4:1 count. Should be very doable for a manager to oversee the activities of 3 or 4 people. By your numbers, I still say the department is top heavy. "Officers are a promoted position that lead the company on a daily basis" Speaking of promotions.....awfully hard to justify promotions at this time, I would imagine, when the department isn't given enough money to retain the lower echelon. Would send a bad message to retain that practice until the department gets a tad bit more healthy financially, right? "Officers are a promoted position that lead the company on a daily basis. Could we remove Lieutenants and still function? Yes. Can you drive your car with three good tires and one flat tire? Yes, but it wouldn't drive as well. Same principle." Oh, I think some give management way too much importance to the overall operation. Could probably lose some manager positions, spread out the duties of the management positions eliminated and still not overload the remaining people. Even if they are overloaded, they can join the rest of us in a daily dose of too much to handle. Many do it everyday. Working shorthanded and, at the same time, given more to do is a very common practice in the private industry sector nowadays. It is happening right now in my work group. We lost a position due to the death of a technician, but that position was not replaced......but the work has increased since a new boss has taken over. Didn't use to be so but since companies have found that overloading the few rather than hiring the correct number of workers to accomodate the workload is beneficial to them financially. Most don't care if it burns out the worker bees in quick fashion. Never did. The new working environment (since the 80's) doesn't consider the stress level of the average Joe worker. If ya can't hack it, get out and we'll find another mule to carry the load mentality by most company's upper echelon. Just glad I have 4 more years and not starting out like the young people are now. I feel sorry for them. They will never know what it felt like, long ago, to be appreciated once in a while....or even acknowledged on the job. Enough rambling. "Any more questions?" Nope. Thank you for your time. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 08 2014 at 5:30am
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Updated: 11:52 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 7, 2014 | Posted: 7:00 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 7, 2014 Fire union to vote next week on revised proposal
Proposal union gave to city had ‘significant changes,’ says Local 336 president.
By http://www.journal-news.com/staff/michael-d-pitman/" rel="nofollow - Staff Writer MIDDLETOWN — The city and its fire union have yet to reach a deal that would save 11 firefighter jobs by Aug. 16, but union members could vote on a proposal next week. The city issued 11 letters last month to the junior members of the Middletown Division of Fire — those with seven years of experience and less — notifying them that they would be laid off on Aug. 16. In all, 15 positions would be cut from the department — four of them through attrition. Officials with International Association of Fire Fighters Local 336 have been trying to negotiate with the city to avoid those layoffs. The two sides met on July 31, and then again on Monday and Wednesday. Local 336 President Greg Justice said the framework of a proposal presented to city officials had “significant changes,” and union membership will vote on those changes over three days next week. “We met on Wednesday (with city officials), and the framework changed,” said Justice, a captain with the city fire department. “We decided to kick it to the membership for them to vote on it.” City Manager Doug Adkins said Thursday that there is no update on talks with the union, writing in an email: “Still negotiating.” Adkins previously told City Council at a July 29 retreat that the union had considered “some brand new concepts” and are still working toward a compromise. He wouldn’t provide any insight on what a potential compromise could involve, but Justice told the Journal-News they were considering incorporating part-time firefighters. The city department is entirely full-time right now. Cutting the firefighter positions and closing Station 84 on Tytus Avenue could save about $1 million in the city’s budget. Station 84. which services the northern part of the city, was built in the 1950s and needs a number of significant repairs, among which is the roof, fire Chief Steve Botts said. Closing the station but keeping the utilities active would save the city about $20,000 annually, according to Botts. Disconnecting the utilities and mothballing the station would double that savings, he said. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 08 2014 at 5:39am
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Vivian, Still waiting for your info on the increased salaries and benefits that fire fighters have gotten lately. I don't mind your posting about fire fighters, good or bad, as long as it's accurate. Ashkicker |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Aug 08 2014 at 10:13am
| Ash: We appreciate your in put because, like in the past with Judy, they tell us what they want us to hear. So if you can "keep 'em honest" that's a good thing. We try to print things on this forum so the people know what's going on. We just want honest feedback. Council doesn't like it much when we print what's REALLY going on but oh well. Then they need to clean up there act. IMO |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 09 2014 at 10:03am
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Ashkicker From 2000 to 2014, the police budget has increased $2.6 million or 28 percent, while the fire budget has gone from $7 million to $9 million, or 30 percent. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 09 2014 at 4:29pm
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Vivian, So you blogged to everyone on this site that fire fighters are getting raises and increased benefits without: A) Research to verify your statements or B) You intentionally tried to malign fire fighters or C) You don't care about honesty Do I seem upset? You betcha! We have enough people that don't like us with the true facts and figures without bloggers adding fuel to the fire with untrue statements. With that being said, I accept your apology even before you offer it. Ashkicker |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 09 2014 at 6:44pm
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Well Ashkicker Are you telling me that from 2000 to 2014, the police budget has increased $2.6 million or 28 percent, while the fire budget has gone from $7 million to $9 million, or 30 percent is not a true statement? Hmmm...at the last council meeting you requested $60,000 for a truck. However you never said a word on this blog as City Hall gave away $50,000 of upgrades on the Bank One deal... |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Aug 09 2014 at 8:20pm
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I would think that increases to Police and Fire depts. Health insurance costs are a lot of whats driving the costs up. Don't know that for sure but since every one else's has skyrocketed.
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Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 09 2014 at 11:17pm
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Vivian, Let me reread my posts....................... Yep, just as I thought, I never once mentioned an increase in the fire departments budget. That was your information. Did it increase? If you say so I'll believe you. On the other hand, YOU mentioned increased salaries and benefits. Once more I'll ask you a direct question. What increased salary and benefit did Middletown fire fighters receive? "Hmmm...at the last council meeting you requested $60,000 for a truck." You must think I'm Chief Botts. I can guarantee you that I am not Chief Botts. With that being said, I didn't request $60,000. The department did. Please explain how the department's request for money for a vehicle translates into increased salaries and benefits. Have fire fighters received a pay raise in those 14 years? Yes we did. However, fire fighters haven't had a raise in approximately 6 years and may not get one in the next couple of years. Of course our insurance premiums HAVE increased and fire fighters agreed to remove it from our contract and give the city more control over the cost. Step increases? Yes, less senior fire fighters have received step increases once they meet city mandated standards. Most members of the department are at the top step of our pay range and did not get any step increase. Because a budget increases doesn't mean fire fighters are reaping the benefits. It could have been due to medical supplies, fuel supplies, safety gear, uniforms, etc. going up in price. Ashkicker |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 10 2014 at 5:47am
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Ashkicker How many Firemen did we employ in 2000? How many Firemen did we employ in 2014? |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 10 2014 at 9:39am
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Vivian, How does the amount of fire fighters employed have anything to do with individual salaries and benefits? One more time I'll give this a try. What increased salaries and benefits were you referring to in your original post? Don't cloud the issue with requests for new (used) vehicles, amount of fire fighters employed or overall budgets. You know, something like more vacation days (didn't happen), 2% raise (didn't happen) or bonuses for saving lives (again, didn't happen). One of the things that did happen was the Chief limited when personnel could use their compensatory time off. That will save the city money. Too be perfectly honest, the Union opposes the Chief's plan and have fought it. It is a change in department policy that is decades old. Bottom line, I would like specific monetary values and benefits we have received. Ashkicker |
Posted By: AKBobby
Date Posted: Aug 10 2014 at 2:31pm
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increased budgets to police and fire doesn't mean they received increases in salaries or benefits. Not at all. Neither police or fire hasn't received raises in years. It could be equipment or increased costs in other things. But for some to say cops and firemen have gotten all these big raises that's 100% incorrect ------------- AK - What is going on with that? |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 11 2014 at 9:31am
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Viv baby..........................still waiting. Ashkicker |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 11 2014 at 11:26am
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Ashkicker No need to be disrespectful and call me BABY… I do not have 30 days to completely research all the Fire Departments records from 2000-2014 nor do I intend to do so. So I guess I will have to agree that the Firefighters have not had a raise for years…Do you feel better now? |
Posted By: Perplexed
Date Posted: Aug 11 2014 at 11:27am
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It seems that Vivian's question is a simple one. In the year 2000 how many people were employed? In the year 2014 how many people are employed? Between 2000 and 2014 how many people received step increases? Between 2000 and 2014 what was the dollar amount annually of step increases that people received? It also seems that modest cost of living increases and fringe benefits are really not the issue. An examination of the cost of step increases is needed. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 11 2014 at 11:58am
Let's talk about step increases. Not sure about this next comment, but I have heard that..... Step increases are a luxury enjoyed only by the public sector. Pay increases are earned as one completes steps of knowledge and demonstrates competency within a given pay grade. This could produce several occasions for a raise within a given period of time. (Is this correct as I'm not 100% sure?- thanks for the clarification in advance) This is quite different than the private sector job setup. The private sector allows for just one shot at a raise as a result of a performance appraisal as the supporting document. It is once a year. The raise is based on the employee's accomplishments during the year and those acomplishments are categorized from a very important contribution to "what you did didn't turn an eye" and non-important. Sometimes, it is being in the right place at the right time that gets you noticed. There are no "step increases" within a pay grade. If a raise is given, it is usually in the range of .5% to an average of 2-3% per year depending on the profits and financial health of the company. Sometimes no one gets a raise. The 2-3% doesn't quite keep up with the cost of living and all of us workers are way behind on the "keeping up with inflation" scale. Have been behind for decades. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 11 2014 at 6:13pm
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Vivian, Disrespectful????? A term of endearment vs. posting misinformation about a group of individuals? I’ll take the term of endearment. Happy? Absolutely! All I was looking for was truthful information. Perplexed, I don’t know the exact number of employees but I will research that and the number of employees getting step increases. I will post that information here. In the meantime, here is the breakdown for step increases for the last six years: Step A - $45,071.56 (Entry level salary) Step B - $47,194.12 $2122.56 or a 4.7% increase Step C - $49,409.43 $2215.31 or a 4.7% increase Step D - $52,999.37 $3589.94 or a 7.3% increase Step E - $57,453.75 $4454.38 or a 8.4% increase Step F – $60,152.60 $2698.85 or a 4.7% increase To advance to Step B the employee must have “passed a written test, to be prepared by the Chief of the Division of Fire, regarding familiarity with the City of Middletown, specifically streets and landmarks.” To advance to Step C the employee must have “received state certification as a paramedic.” (This is a moot requirement because ALL employees must be state certified paramedics before their first day on the job.) There is no performance requirement to advance to Step D. To advance to Step E the employee must have “completed training and received Division of Fire certification for operation of pumper trucks.” To advance to Step F the employee must have “completed training and received Division of Fire certification for operation of an aerial apparatus.” From the Collective Bargaining Agreement: "SALARY ADJUSTMENT The salary of each employee shall be reviewed annually or otherwise as herein provided by the Fire Chief for the purpose of determining which employee shall be entitled to a step increase. All of his personnel records, performance and length of service shall be considered in making recommendations with major emphasis placed on the evaluation of services rendered. On the recommendation of the Fire Chief, the City Manager may advance an employee at the time of such review until the maximum step has been reached." I have known at least one employee that never advanced past Step D and at least one employee that had their step increase delayed until they passed the required performance level. Before you ask, I have no idea why the disparity in percentages through the step program. The city has not increased the ranks of fire fighters in several years. (The anomaly in 2012 was due to fire fighters being laid off and then rehired at a later date.) Fire fighters have been hired to replace retiring fire fighters. With that being said, the city saves money with the step program. Here’s how the city saves money: In a new hire’s first year, the city saves $15,081.04, the difference between Step A (entry level) and Step F (top paid retiree). In the second year, the city saves $12,958.48, the difference between Step B and Step F. In the third year, the city saves $10,743.17, the difference between Step C and Step F. In the fourth year, the city saves $7153.23, the difference between Step D and Step F. In the fifth and final year of savings, the city saves $2698.85, the difference between Step E and Step F. Whenever an employee is getting a step increase, it is because they replaced a top paid fire fighter. That translates to a direct savings of $48,634.77 over five years. You have to include benefit costs also, i.e. – pension contribution, workers comp, etc. which pushes the total savings over $60,000. I have worked in other industry (non-union) where everybody gets paid the same to do the same job. If that practice where used in the fire fighting profession, the city would never see that $60k+ savings. Any other questions? Ashkicker |
Posted By: Perplexed
Date Posted: Aug 11 2014 at 8:21pm
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Ashkicker - Thank you for your prompt and detailed response. The real problem with the City of Middletown is that senior staff have been wasteful and misguided in the funding of so many plans and lavish projects, not public safety abuses. Maintenance of the public infrastructure plus the provision of public safety services has taken a backseat to 'pseudo downtown' giveaways, destruction and planned disinvestment in older neighborhoods, etc. There is a middle ground when it comes to police and fire. Compromise is attainable. I value the work of your department. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 12 2014 at 6:09am
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Step A - $45,071.56 (Entry level salary) Step B - $47,194.12 $2122.56 or a 4.7% increase Step C - $49,409.43 $2215.31 or a 4.7% increase Step D - $52,999.37 $3589.94 or a 7.3% increase Step E - $57,453.75 $4454.38 or a 8.4% increase Step F – $60,152.60 $2698.85 or a 4.7% increase These percentages are decent. Starting at 45 thou ain't too shabby either. Higher than most workers in private industry start out. 60 grand for a topped out salary? Not bad either. Might achieve that as a technician in R&D, in a large corporation like P&G or International Paper after 25 years if you attained the top raise percentage each year. As mentioned earlier, normally looking at .5 to 2-3% each year on raises now when, in earlier times, one could see 3% as a minimum raise. Never heard of a 7.3% or an 8.4% increase for worker bees in any company. This percentage level is withheld for manager levels. Question: Do fire department people pay into their retirements, similar to employee contributions into their IRA in private industry, while working? Do they have payroll deductions for dental and medical premiums each pay period, again, like private industry? IE, do they share the cost with the city for benefit premiums like most companies require nowadays? Thanks in advance for your response. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 12 2014 at 6:28am
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Pension Fire fighters paid 10% into the pension system for years. That went up to 10.75% and has increased to 11.5% as of July of this year. Insurance Employees pay for insurance bi-weekly. That amount is adjusted annually to reflect the overall cost to the city. Contract language can be seen at: http://www.serb.ohio.gov/sections/research/WEB_CONTRACTS/11-MED-10-1622.pdf Ashkicker |
Posted By: Trotwood
Date Posted: Aug 15 2014 at 12:18am
| Let me remind you all that you get what you pay for. Want a sh*tty police dept? Stop passing levies. |
Posted By: eastsider
Date Posted: Aug 18 2014 at 10:26am
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Sad day for the City of Middletown! Especially if you live in the northeastern district/part of city. You no longer have a fire truck or medic unit to service your fire/ems emergencies and will wait for a company from downtown. I HOPE it is in service when you need it! I know some of you didnt vote for the public safety levy and some did, not here to argue that, but it passed and staffing levels were promised to be status quo! bright past....and such a brighter future! JOKE!!!!   |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: Aug 18 2014 at 10:35am
| The most vulgar, dispeccable behavior seen in Middletown were fire fighting employees acting as thugs, threatening Josh Laubach when he was attempting to have a peaceful, intelligent exchange, on SR5.No pity nor empathy for these guys, none. 20% fire fighters putting out brush fires, 80% runs with 2-3 trucks taking folks to Atrium. They burnt their own bridge pre SR5. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 18 2014 at 4:51pm
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Dean, Which threats were you talking about? I didn't see them, of course I was on the inside looking out. "Pity nor empathy for these guys"? What about the people living on that end of town? Brush fires? A couple of Middletown citizens die in fires and you call them brush fires? 2-3 trucks talking folks to Atrium? Do you have any idea how the fire department runs? Stop in a station (not station 4) and ask your questions, anybody there will be happy to address your concerns. So the Union is willing to play ball allowing in part timers (at a cost savings to the city and a monetary loss to the Union) but are concerned about the staffing model (a non monetary issue)and you think we're being thugs? Ashkicker |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Aug 18 2014 at 9:56pm
"The union is allowing part timers" Ashkicker, who do you people think you are? You will allow it? Do you live in the city of Middletown? How many of you live in Middletown? I get so tired of your union thug tactics. You all orchestrated an election and the candidates you worked so hard for turned their backs on you.  Get it through your heads.....we, as a city, can't afford it anymore. Go get a job in another city or, perhaps the one you live in, and shake them down.
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Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Aug 18 2014 at 10:13pm
| Dean is right. If there wasn't any scaremongering about sb5 we wouldn't even be having this conversation now. Ashkicker, if you union guys were all for one and one for all as you say then, why not take a pay cut to keep your union brothers employed? It just seems you all are concerned with keeping the city safe and you care so much that you would do anything you could do to keep the city safe. That is your mantra. You want to keep the city safe. If you are so invested in it take a paycut. whenever you want a safety levy passed you ask the taxpayers to take a paycut. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 19 2014 at 6:33am
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Seriously, isn't the city responsible for lying to the public? Remember, THE CITY LEADERS SAID that if we passed the safety levy the manpower count would remain the same. THE CITY LEADERS changed their minds AFTER the levy was passed and another lie was told to the people. Look, this city must have the capability to put out fires and save lives and dealing with the criminals. With the ramp up of crime and drugs, CREATED BY THE CITY LEADERS with their over-saturation of low income Section 8 and the varying types of people the program typically attracts, we need the cops at full force to handle the ghetto activity this town is now seeing. Ya can't create more work and expect to cover that work adequately with less people. Bassackwards. Typical management nonsense. IMO, the target is not the fire folks or the police. The target of the frustration of this whole situation should be focused on those who created the situation.......the CITY LEADERS. If money is the issue with the city claiming they can't afford any increases to the union bargaining points, if they are asking the union to make some cuts to save money, why isn't the city building side of the negotiations also cutting manpower and salaries? Is this bargaining in good faith coming from the city's side of things? How about BOTH sides taking an equal hit in numbers and salary and BOTH sharing equally in the monetary misery? Shouldn't the theme be whatever it takes to place the situation in the realm of affordability for all concerned? The city shows the police and fire the financial books with revenue coming in and expenditures going out with the cuts in salary and poitions made to indicate money saved and the fire/police agreeing to a similar situation in their area. Now is the time for BOTH SIDES to give concessions. Neither should be asked to bear the total burden of the financial hits. We know what the fire and police have been asked to do. What, in detail, has the city done as their share in this? I see hiring going on perodically in the Econ. Dev Dept and in the Council Meeting notes. Why is the city building hiring and, at the same time, asking the fire and police to take hits? I'd rather have another fireman than a papershuffling admin manager in Econ. Dev. doing little to nothing each day. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 19 2014 at 2:18pm
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Middiemom, "Allow", yes that is the correct term. As a Union, we have a contract with the city. Our contract is for full time employees. That contract runs until December 31, 2014. The city can't use part-timers per the contract unless the Union agrees or "allows" them. The city can negotiate part-timers for the contract beginning January 1, 2015 and could ultimately be awarded that provision in arbitration. Until a new contract is in place, the Union has a voice in protecting provision of the current contract. Pay cuts. See above. We have a pay structure in place until December 31, 2014. How many people do you know that voluntarily give up part of their pay? With no pay raise in at least 6 years and possibly for 2 more years coupled with a greater health insurance premium, that does translate into a shrinking pay check. Where does giving back end? Reading some posts on this board, fire fighters only deserve minimum wage paychecks. If we gave back 5%, people here would complain that we didn't give back 10%. If we gave back 10%, they would want 15%, etc. I believe the pay is equal to job we are asked to do. Anti-levy people were quick to point out how much fire fighters earn in a year and Middletown citizens STILL passed the last levy overwhelming. To this point in the year, city revenue is up $600,000. With 70+ people in an organization there is sure to be one or two individuals that rub people the wrong way. For that I truly apologize. Some members are frustrated by the passage of a levy only to be followed by a cut to YOUR fire department. Personally where I live shouldn't make a difference, but you seem to think it does. To that end, I do not live in Middletown. I shop in Middletown, eat in Middletown and play in Middletown. Funny thing, living outside of Middletown doesn't make me immune from Middletown payroll taxes. So I guess I'm "shaking" myself down. I'll yell at myself later for that. Ashkicker |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: Aug 19 2014 at 3:31pm
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70 people in your organization rub people the wrong way including you. Cut the fire department. A few years ago, my mother had a stomach ache while staying at The Gables. Eight fire fighters came, two trucks, to take her to The Atrium for a quick ER visit. It took MFD 30 minutes to get her out. Even my mother at the time wondered why a possee of men came, when she had a non life threatening case and short term illness. Everywhere you now drive, the MFD blast the sirens. People are tired of the tactics and the first concern is the union, not residents. Go get a job at AK Steel, join their union, play their politics. You aren't winning the debate here. By the way, who was the fire guy involved with G? |
Posted By: Factguy
Date Posted: Aug 19 2014 at 3:51pm
| Give the union a break. Middletown was built by the unions. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Aug 19 2014 at 4:03pm
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Dean, Because we have a difference of opinion I rub you the wrong way? I guess we'll never be friends. Sorry about your mother. I do believe you are mistaken about the 10 guys. First off, dispatchers (employed within the Police Department) make the call as to how serious the situation is and which units to respond. You need to find out what the nursing home told the dispatchers when they called 911. If dispatchers determined your mothers condition warranted advanced care, an engine company would have also been dispatched to care for your mother. Medics are staffed by two personnel, three would be a rare exception unless it was a reserve medic staffed by an engine company. Students from the area education institutions ride with our squads to get their state mandated ride time. Engine companies are staffed by three personnel with the rare occasion of a fourth. I have heard complaints when we have "loaded and go" about being to rough or uncaring. Now I hear we were too careful and took too long. What's a guy to do. Time frames are often grossly exaggerated (unintentionally) in stressful situations. If you care to list specifics, I could check on the documented run times. I have worked in other professions. We have guys that left AK and came to work at the department. Blast the siren? Yep, because in this day and age of "I need to be there before you", drivers routinely fail to yield. You do understand how quickly the brain dies without oxygen or how quickly fire doubles in size. Since you seem to constantly hear "MFD blast the sirens", you do understand its because we have been called to do our job? The number of calls keep increasing while the number of fire fighters to answer those calls continue to dwindle. In the end, we will never agree and I'm okay with that. Some people want fire fighters to risk their lives for free and the day of volunteers in big cities are over. However, the Police Department does use loss-cost reserves. Sorry, I don't know who or what "G" is. Please elaborate. Ashkicker |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Aug 19 2014 at 6:05pm
| Dean: was it the chief |
Posted By: Perplexed
Date Posted: Aug 20 2014 at 12:29am
| I wonder if the new City Manager will 'creatively' deal with declining tax revenues the way that he cavalierly wasted millions in Federal tax dollars for community development? What is his strategy for economic renewal of Middletown, not to mention the reclamation of blighted, older neighborhoods? What is the Dougmeister's grand plan? Where does he plan to find the capital for his projects? Show us the bacon, Doug. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Aug 20 2014 at 12:07pm
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Perhaps someone will scan and post the 120 page vision Adkins provided city council during his interview giving him the job others were denied having such knowledge, assuring him the job. Steve D? Buehler?, ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Aug 20 2014 at 4:13pm
| What was that statement that Mayor Mulligan said in today's paper: "All members of the council "value" public safety, but at the same time, THEY HAVE TO BE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE." I HOPE that statement WILL come back to bite him in the butt. That's ALL we've been saying on this forum and it hasn't happened yet. They have spent money on downtown like drunken sailors and never once thought about being "financially responsible". His cronies and Judy have put this town in financial hardship.Does anyone know, did he say that with a straight face? IMO |
Posted By: Lostdafire
Date Posted: Aug 25 2014 at 3:23pm
| Test |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 29 2014 at 8:38pm
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Now, we find out the union rejected the city's proposals and 11 are gone on Saturday. Just hope I don't have a serious 911 medical emergency for my wife. Again, if the response time is too long, just after they downsized the service by eliminating the 11 positions, and she dies, the city will have a lawsuit to deal with. Should be relatively easy to prove just after the reduction in manpower I would think. The city leaders have to do what they have to do and I will do what I have to do in this situation. Their choice to roll the dice. I just don't understand why they would rather eliminate 11 jobs that put out fires and provide medical services and retain 11 paper-shufflers in the city building, supporting assistants to the assistants who suck the coffee cup all day and go to endless meetings that usually accomplish nothing pertinent. I'm not a big fan of greedy unions but I'm even less of a fan of incompetent leadership. The working world has become a giant cluster with incompetence in charge. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Aug 30 2014 at 10:34pm
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And the usual rantings of the "get off my lawn" guy continue. Vet, your frequent complaints about management tell me you're probably a low to mid-level employee who more often than not has stuck his own career in neutral due to arguing with management, constant complaining, or tripping over yourself because of an inability to be flexible or see a bigger picture. While I'm not defending city hall, your assumption that our paper-thin city budget somehow has room for layers of assistants and managers of nothing, going about their day brewing coffee, seems a bit of a stretch. Yes, bloated city government is a different thing than a company but you sound like someone who truly has never understood what leadership takes, what risk taking is involved at the top of a company, or how many of these "paper shuffling" jobs like accounting, audit, risk management, HR, etc. are essential. Sure, there are people who shouldn't be in their position (Landen? Kohler?). Sure there is waste here and there in companies. But you sound like the classic populist clock-puncher rather than someone who knows the perils of running a business. |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Aug 31 2014 at 8:33am
| Stanky: I think you may be missing thr reason for our complaining. Primarily, it's because the reast of the citizens have a right to know the truth about what's really going on in that city building. Thank goodness Judy is now gone. ( but make no mistake, she will raise her ugly head again) Landen, Kohler? That's all you got. How about Mulligan? Adkins? That was another back room deal to have Dougie move into his current position. If you don't believe me just wait and watch. It will all become clear. I don't know why they wasted nice peoples time on the farce of looking for a city manger when it was all ready decided how that was going to turn out. As I have said many times, they should have all have been replaced long ago for their failure to display a "fiduciary responsibility". They have a legal responsibility to protect and spend wisely the monies of the citizens of our city. Hasn't happened. IMO |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Aug 31 2014 at 2:34pm
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And directly after voting to make our public safety levy permanent Twice we have voted for this First time, we were promised no cuts--maintain current levels--heard it from the horse's mouth--didn't keep the promise Second time--we shall see what happens..... One thing--the new boss has been true to HIS promise and plan hope that it works |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 31 2014 at 2:43pm
HIT A NERVE, DID I STANKY? FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE NEVER HAD A "CAREER". ALWAYS THOUGHT OF IT AS A JOB THAT PROVIDES AN INCOME, NOTHING MORE. WITH 5 MORE YEARS TO WORK I WILL HAVE 51 YEARS IN. A LITTLE TOO LATE TO THINK ABOUT A CAREER. THE OLD "CAREER" CRAP HEARD OVER THE YEARS IS OVER RATED. HAVE SEEN ALOT OF PEOPLE COME INTO THE WORK PLACE WHO STARTED OUT WITH EMPLOYER SUNSHINE PUMPED UP THEIR KEESTER AND A PROMISE OF A "CAREER" WITH A "I'M REALLY GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE" ATTITUDE ONLY TO BE USED AND ABUSED AND CAST ASIDE BY UPPER MANAGEMENT WHEN THEY "FELL OUT OF FAVOR" OR MADE A BAD DECISION. WHEN THEY REALIZE THEIR TIME IS OVER, THEY MOVE ON. I AM A MIDDLE LEVEL EMPLOYEE WITH ONLY ONE STINT IN THE SUPERVISORY RANKS FOR FOUR YEARS. CAN'T SAY AS I LIKED IT DURING THAT TIME. MY "FREQUENT COMPLAINTS" ARE A RESULT OF SEEING 46 YEARS OF UPPER MANAGEMENT USING FEAR, DISCRIMINATORY AND RETALIATORY TACTICS (TYPICAL MANAGEMENT GAMES PLAYED) ON THE BULK OF THE EMPLOYEE POPULATION AT EIGHT DIFFERENT COMPANIES. THE STORY IS ALWAYS THE SAME NO MATTER WHERE YOU WORK. "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" TACTICS.....AND, TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY, WHILE WE'RE TREATING YOU LIKE CRAP, WE ARE DEMANDING YOUR LOYALTY....OR ELSE. BEEN DOWNSIZED THREE TIMES SINCE 1994. THAT WORKS ON YOUR ATTITUDE CONCERNING MANAGEMENT TOO STANKY. HAVE YOU BEEN DOWNSIZED IN YOUR WORKING LIFE? IF SO, HOW DID YOUR ATTITUDE FAIR AT THE TIME? NO ONE TAKES DOWNSIZING WELL, ESPECIALLY IF ONES OPINION IS THAT THEY DIDN'T DESERVE IT AND IT WAS JUST A NUMBER'S GAME BY UPPER MANAGEMENT WITH THE WORKER TAKING THE HIT AND MIDDLE AND UPPER MANAGEMENT USUALLY HOLDING ON TO THEIR HIGH PAYING, REPETITIVE FUNCTIONING, PAPER-SHUFFLING JOBS. YOU SOUND LIKE ONE WHO IS INCLINED TO SANCTION MOST OF THE CRAP THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS CITY TO DATE. YOUR COMMENT "OUR PAPER-THIN CITY BUDGET"... COULD BE CONSTRUED AS A DEFENSE MECHANISM AND THAT YOU WORK IN THE CITY BUILDING OF HAVE SOME CONNECTION WITH THE CITY OPERATION. IF SO, KEEP BELIEVING THE PROPAGANDA FROM YOUR EMPLOYER. FOR ME, I CAN'T SUPPORT LEADERSHIP THAT I CAN'T RESPECT. THAT GOES FOR THE CITY BUILDING TOPIC AS WELL AS ANY WORK ARENA. RISK TAKING AT THE TOP? HARDLY. EVEN IF THE CEO LOSES THEIR JOB FOR ANY REASON, THERE IS A CONTRACT THAT PAYS OUT A GOLDEN PARACHUTE IN THE MILLIONS WHILE THE LITTLE GUY GETS A FEW WEEKS VACATION PAY AND A LITTLE "SEPARATION PACKAGE" THAT LASTS A MONTH OR TWO WHILE BEING OFFERED A COBRA HEALTH CARE PACKAGE FOR THE FAMILY AT $800 BUCKS A MONTH WHILE UNEMPLOYED. HOW DOES ONE AFFORD THAT PREMIUM IF ONE IS UNEMPLOYED? YOU TELL ME. I DON'T BELIEVE ANY CEO IS WORRIED ABOUT LOSING THEIR JOBS AS MUCH AS THE WORKER BEE WORRIES. BEING ASKED TO LEAVE A COMPANY IS FAR MORE CATASTROPHIC TO THE WORKER THAN THE CEO, MONEY-WISE. THE CEO GOES TO THE NEXT COMPANY TO SCREW IT UP IN A MATTER OF WEEKS WITH THEIR CONNECTIONS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD. THE WORKER HAS TO HUNT AND PECK FOR THAT NEW JOB OPENING FOR MONTHS....OR YEARS. THE JOB SEARCH IS NOT ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. AND JUST HOW DID THE CITY BUDGET GET "PAPER THIN" STANKY? NO DOUBT, A RESULT OF POOR PLANNING, INCOMPETENCE IN RUNNING THE CITY, A LACK OF A REVENUE GENERATING PLAN IN BRINGING IN NEW BUSINESS AND INDUSTRIAL COMPANIES. TOO HIGH OF LEGACY COSTS WHILE TRYING TO SUPPORT OUTLANDISH WORKER/MANAGEMENT SALARIES. NO LOGICAL CITY DIRECTION AND REASONABLE GOALS THAT WERE ATTAINABLE. PLACING TOO MUCH RELIANCE IN THE FEDS AND THEIR SECTION 8/GOVERNMENT HANDOUT PROGRAMS FOR REVENUE IN LIEU OF JOB CREATION TAXES. A LACK OF PUTTING MONEY AWAY FOR BASE NECESSITIES, PILFERING EXISTING FUNDS LIKE THE STREET REPAIR FUND AND THEN SPENDING IT ON UNNEEDED AND MONEY-WASTING ISSUES IN THE CITY. TAKING CITY MONEY AND SPENDING IT ON REAL ESTATE WHILE CLAIMING THE CITY IS NOT IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS, THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND SPECIAL PROJECTS FOR CITY FRIENDS, WHILE CLAIMING TO BE ON A TIGHT BUDGET. LOANS TO THE MMF AND CITY FRIENDS. GIVING BUILDINGS AWAY TO SUE WITTMAN THE ARTS PEOPLE. TAKING LESS THAN OTHER PROPOSALS FROM WALDEN AND COMPANY....FRIENDS OF THE CITY. SPENDING $300,000 FOR A BUILDING AND THEN SELLING IT FOR A DOLLAR. WHAT FOOL WOULD DO THAT IN THEIR HOME BUDGET? HOW ABOUT WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE CITY POSITION HIERARCHY? I WILL BET, WITHOUT SEEING IT AS YET, THAT BOTH OF US CAN FIND POSITIONS OF WASTE WITH ASSISTANTS TO THE ASSISTANTS WHO DO NO MORE THAN SHUFFLE PAPERS AND SUCK THE COFFEE CUP. THERE ARE THOSE KINDS OF POSITIONS IN EVERY ORGANIZATION AND YOU KNOW IT. I CAN TELL YOU FOR A FACT THAT THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT HAD THREE MANAGERS FOR 4 WORKERS INCLUDING THE ADMIN. POSITION AT ONE TIME. AND NOW, THERE ARE LOWER ECHELON PEOPLE TAKING THE HIT FOR THE ABOVE MENTIONED FAILURES OF THE UPPER MANAGEMENT OF THIS CITY. KEEP ON DEFENDING MANAGEMENT STANKY, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, YOU'RE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF REASON. NO, I'VE NEVER RUN A BUSINESS, BUT I WILL BET, USING CONSERVATIVE SPENDING BASED ON CORRECT PRIORITIES, LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE, THAT I CAN DO A BETTER JOB AT SPENDING THE TAXPAYER MONEY THAN THE CLOWNS DO IN THE CITY BUILDING. IT IS A SIMPLE CONCEPT. YOU NEVER SPEND MORE THAN YOU BRING IN AND YOU ALWAYS PAY THE BILLS FIRST AND BUDGET YOUR REMAINING MONEY TO LAST UNTIL THE NEXT COLLECTION PERIOD. IF MONEY IS LEFT OVER, IT IS PLACED IN A FUND FOR EMERGENCY USAGE AND EMERGENCY USAGE ONLY, NOT TO BE PILFERED FOR OTHER USAGE. YOU GET IN TROUBLE WHEN YOU OVER-COMMIT, MIS-APPROPRIATE AND HAVE TOO MANY FINANCIAL FRONTS TO BATTLE. THIS IS ALSO CALLED "LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS" CITY BUILDING PEOPLE. AND JUST WHAT IS A "CLASSIC POPULIST CLOCK-PUNCHER"? I'M A PERSON WHO HANDLES MONEY WELL, WHO PAYS THEIR BILLS ON TIME AND WHO PLANS FOR EMERGENCIES WHILE LIVING ON A TIGHT BUDGET THAT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR WASTEFUL SPENDING OR CREDIT CARDS, ESPECIALLY AT THE INTEREST RATES THEY CHARGE NOWADAYS. I ALSO TRY TO PAY OFF ANY BALANCE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. I WOULD IMAGINE ALL CONSERVATIVE FOLKS OPERATE THAT WAY. IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO HANDLE A LIMITED INCOME, STILL GET THE BILLS PAID AND STAY OUT OF FINANCIAL TROUBLE. NOPE, NEVER OWNED OR RUN A BUSINESS.......BUT IF I DID, I WOULD HAVE NEVER TREATED MY EMPLOYEES THE WAY I HAVE SEEN THEM TREATED BY MIDDLE AND UPPER MANAGEMENT OVER THE YEARS. I HAVE HAD MY FAIR SHARE THROWN AT ME OVER THE YEARS TOO. UNFORTUNATELY,FOR ME, BECAUSE OF PAST EXPERIENCES, THEY ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED AND, BECAUSE THEY OPERATE THE WAY THAT THEY DO (MANAGERIAL TACTICS), ARE CONSIDERED THE ENEMY. I HAVE HAD PERHAPS 30 MANAGERS OVER THE YEARS. OUT OF 30, THERE HAVE BEEN 2 GOOD MANAGERS THAT I TRUSTED AND KNEW WOULDN'T STAB ME IN THE BACK, AND THAT I WOULD SUPPORT 100%. THE REST, WORTHLESS GAME PLAYERS AND COMPANY YES MEN WHO HAVE NO CONSCIENCE NOR MORALS AS IT APPLIES TO THEIR SUBORDINATES. HARDLY HONORABLE. ENOUGH "RANTING, TRIPPING OVER MYSELF AND COMPLAINING" AS YOU PUT IT. I ENJOY THIS LITTLE DISCUSSION ABOUT MY FAVORITE SUBJECT..... INEPT, NON-TRUSTWORTHY MANAGEMENT AND THEIR TACTICS. NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN.  ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Aug 31 2014 at 6:12pm
| Spider. What was that plan and what is it he has done sofar according to his plan? I must have missed something. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 01 2014 at 8:49am
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oth--reducing public safety expenditures from 72% of the budget to 60% part of his manifesto laid out b4 getting the job, so we are getting what was advertised. I don't like what just happened, however the former status quo was un-sustainable. Decisions have to be made, and often any more few of the options are popular or enjoyable. Even though no one is happy, it is what it is. I doubt that this will be the end of budget-cutting/re-prioritizing. Rather the beginning. I have studied this very ambitious plan--read it twice(some sections more). I am with Mr.A on his package, though it will be a piece at a time. This place and admin/govt has to change--we all know that. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 01 2014 at 9:52am
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Show me the positions cut that have been made in the city building and positions that are current, with salaries. Then show me in the city site council meeting minutes where they have stopped hiring rather than HR Manager Noah Powers the Third offering letters showing that they are still hiring within the city building. The new hiring positions are not openly announced to the general public in the Journal and one must go to the council minutes to observe this information. Almost as if they are doing what they can to minimize the publication on the new hires. Show me where they have reduced spending on special city projects, stopped purchasing real estate and have eliminated money allocation to the downtown and loans to their friends........ Then we can talk about eliminating the basics like fire and the police. I still don't believe that Adkins or any other city leader has cut it as far as they can go and MUST eliminate safety services as the only choice here. Surely they can find some positions in other departments that they can cut that will impact the community to a lesser degree. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Sep 02 2014 at 9:57am
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Article insinuates that Middletown FD had to be assisted by other FDs in the area due to layoffs. http://www.wlwt.com/news/middletown-fire-crews-respond-to-fire-at-super-8-motel/27818826#!bOrTPh" rel="nofollow - http://www.wlwt.com/news/middletown-fire-crews-respond-to-fire-at-super-8-motel/27818826#!bOrTPh Is this true or just bad reporting? Referencing: With the recent layoffs of 11 firefighters in Middletown, the fire department had to be assisted by Monroe, Trenton, Franklin Township and Carlisle fire departments. ------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Sep 04 2014 at 6:20pm
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John, Given the shrinking size of Middletown's department, virtually every fire in Middletown has become a mutual aid incident. With that being said, one causation was the introduction of a RIT/RAT team. That team's job is to be in front of the structure ready to enter at a moments notice to rescue lost or trapped fire fighters. When the department staffed daily at 19 men, there were disbursed as follows: 4 engine companies/ 3 to a company = 12 fire fighters 3 medic companies/ 2 to a company = 6 fire fighters 1 deputy chief A fire alarm entails 3 engine companies, one medic unit and the deputy chief. If it turned out to be a working fire, flames and smoke showing, an additional medic unit and additional engine company were dispatched. Middletown's department covered most of those runs when it was staffed with 19. (As a side note, the $35,000 Matrix study found the department should NOT go below 19 fire fighters) Fast forward to the closure of Quint (engine) 84 and the reduction of personnel to 16. The breakdown went as follows: 3 engine companies/ 3 to a company = 9 fire fighters 3 medic companies/ 2 to a company = 6 fire fighters 1 deputy chief Now when a working fire comes in, Middletown does not have the manpower to cover all the jobs required for a safe and quick fire knockdown. Virtually every working fire is going to include mutual aid to be the RIT/RAT team. If an engine company is on a smoke alarm call, car fire, medic assist call, etc., 2 mutual aid units are going to be needed. Now we come to September of 2014. Council decides to reduce staffing levels to 13 personnel daily. The new breakdown is as follows: 4 engine/medic companies/ 3 to a company = 12 fire fighters 1 deputy chief Those 4 combination companies take which ever piece of equipment is needed or "First Emergency First" Where is the problem with that you ask. The city keeps saying the majority of our runs are medical in nature. Under the old or non FEF scenario, two fire fighters took every medical call. If dispatch deemed the call to be life threatening, an engine company was also dispatched. If the run could be handled by the medic unit, the engine was released, leaving 2 fire fighters "out of service" on the run. In other words, the three 2-man medic units (6 personnel)could handle 3 concurrent calls and leave 3 engine companies in service. Under the FEF plan,3 concurrent calls would place three combination companies, or 9 personnel, out of service leaving just one engine company to cover the entire city. It was that type of scenario that played out at the hotel fire. The deputy chief had to assist the engine company on the scene before the next engine company arrived. His job is to manage the scene outside from the best vantage point to insure the safest and quickest outcome to the incident. ashkicker |
Posted By: Perplexed
Date Posted: Sep 04 2014 at 7:16pm
| The record speaks volumes on the repeated financial waste and misguided priorities of The Dougmeister during his ignominious term with the Community Revitalization Department. Now that he's the City Manager, it's fine for him to nickel and dime Middletown's Fire Department. Go figure? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: Sep 04 2014 at 7:54pm
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I am not alone by stating the majority in Middletown are absolutely sick and tired of hearing about the fire fighters and their distorted viewpoints on their plight. Regarding the hotel incident, the number of firemen and departments coming from different communities was an outcome of what was initially perceived and reported as a fire so severe in its course and strength, it threatened to burn down the entire hotel. On the contrary, it burned only one room, from a candle from a guest. Think of it this way if it were a police incident. A woman calls the police department associated with seeing a man walk through her back yard, cutting across her grass and lot, to save 5 minutes of walking time on the sidewalk. The police send out the entire force, thinking the woman is being held hostage, when she really just reported a minor incident. Such is the fire fight at the hotel. Multiple fire units run, when a small fire occurred. It had nothing to do with the cuts in the fire department. There isn't a more political unit in the city of Middletown, none. Middletown fire department and drama queens are all the same....attention seekers.
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Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 12:33am
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Ok Dean, Explain this, your mother had a "non life threatening case and short term illness" and you called 911. Sounds like overkill to me. You should have loaded your mother up in your car and drove her the 1.5 miles to the Atrium. So are you a solution to the problem or did you add to the "problem"? I'm sure if the fire department didn't respond accordingly to the hotel fire and people would have died, you probably would complained that fire fighters were to lazy to respond. Middletown had one engine in service when that call came in. A second unit cleared while returning from a medic call and had to switch over from their medic unit to their engine. So you had 6, yes 6, Middletown fire fighters responding to a fire that could have put a lot of lives in danger. I spoke with the deputy chief in charge of that fire and his crystal ball was turned off. He didn't know it was a candle fire. (you know, candle fires are never large! Fifth third in Trenton burned to the ground from 1 cigarette butt). The first engine with 3 fire fighters was alone on that fire for about 10 minutes before they got any help. While you're busy complaining about the fire department, the hotel manager was pretty happy with the department's performance. ashkicker |
Posted By: jag123
Date Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 6:04am
Posted By: jag123
Date Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 6:12am
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Many times, it takes several firefighters to fight even a small fire. High temps and humdity, a ton of gear on your back and fighting the hose itself, can cause fatigue in just a few minutes. Fatigue causes injuries to firefighters. Several fighters rotate in and out to lessen the chance of this happening. Me? Been there, done that. You?
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 6:41am
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On the other hand, never had to call 911 for a fire situation but have called many times for a medical response. The response was quick, the fire/medic folks were efficient, courteous and seemed to care in some extreme situations. I'm glad they're here and serving the community. Have the "anti-fire" folks posting here had any experience with the fire responses to an emergency situation? If so, I believe they would find a satisfactory situation playing out before their eyes. My family has. If they will provide me their phone numbers, I will call right after I call 911 and they can see for themselves, the response time, the "in the house" activity and the efficiency with which these guys work. I'm sure you will be pleased. And no, I'm not an "AJ Smith union supporter" either, but I do know good service when I see it....on more than one occasion. Believe it or not, the police and fire departments are two of the more useful/efficient departments we have in this city and are a better bargain for our tax money than the salaries we are paying at the city building. What are we getting for our tax dollars out of the city manager and his crew? (beside an inept cluster, of course) Look at the day to day service we are getting from these guys and then look at the service we are getting out of the city building. Still think the police and fire are the issues in this city? I'd say they are two of the better elements in the city. How about we examine the real culprits responsible for the town being the way it is. All JMO of course. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Trotwood
Date Posted: Sep 06 2014 at 8:21pm
I think the majority in any city respect their local firefighters and the life-saving work they do to ensure all community members are safe. Assuming they are fat-cats is disgusting beyond reason.
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Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Sep 07 2014 at 12:08am
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Trotwood, Simply put, THANK YOU! ashkicker |
Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 12:49am
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Ash Kicker-- I'm a nurse at a clinic here in Middletown. ACLS certified, but our doc depends on heavily on squads if there is an emergency. I informed him of the recent layoffs and could result in slower response times. Is there any way to let other offices know about the potential for delays and the importance have their staff trained? This may be out of your scope, but I'm willing to brainstorm with you as this could lead to some bad outcomes... |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 1:24am
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Ashkicker could you explain why it is being said that the city made an offer to save the 11 positions but the union voted it down in terms that even I could understand it? |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 10:32am
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For the city's side of the issue, go to http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/fire/fire_council_slideshow.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/fire/fire_council_slideshow.pdf This was the presentation made to council last week; not clear why the Journal has not provided balanced reporting on all of the issues.
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Posted By: Historic House Guy
Date Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 10:44am
| Personally, I think they could save a good amount of money if they stop sending fire personnel and trucks out to every medical call. What is the purpose of that anyway? Why would you send a fire engine and EMS? What a waste! |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 10:59am
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Miiddletown has created a problem of numbing proportion over decades of waste, lack of fiduciary oversight, and entitlement. I read the presentation, and while I do not support the need for the vast number of full-time fire fighters, as the statistics illuminate the fact Middletown is greatly skewed off balance in payroll % compared to other cities going to payroll, the reality is the entitlement and fiscal mismanagement has been so apparent over so many years, its difficult to accept and comprehend the cuts if one were a fire fighter, compared to the other departments. Nonetheless, the cuts need to be made. I have difficulty is accepting the greater than $100 Mm in expense for road pavement, when the city could have remedied that decades ago, indeed, in 1988-1989, by simply putting back in place the dedicated funds that were set aside for road maintenance. No on in city hall nor council can honestly sit with a straight face and use road maintenance as an issue in lending support for reducing the budget for fire/ police. At the end of the day, just like the striking AKS union workers, these guys/ gals, don't want to give up their perks. The outcome will be disheartened employees throwing out baseless claims. The numbers clearly show the city action was justified. However, the bigger issue is the chronic inability Middletown has to bring in new businesses. That will always be a problem when Liberty Township/ Mason, don't tax on income. Employers go there to bring in talent, not high tax areas that cannot provide basic amenities at very steep tax rates presently. The cycle that Middletown remains, and continue to be spun in the downward fall. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Trotwood
Date Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 3:29pm
Good points. Veering slightly off topic, does anyone know what Middletown's road budget is? That seems like the easiest way to cut costs. There are so many stupidly large boulevards all over the place, like Barnitz, University and its giant useless interchanges, Briel south of Roosevelt.... and I'm sure there are many more roads that are way too big for the number of cars they actually handle in a day. Why doesn't the city just maintain one side of the road and vacate the other? Turn it over to the Butler Co. park service to maintain bike lanes in the stretch if you guys want. That way everybody in Butler Co. will be reducing your city's road maintenance bill.
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Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Sep 09 2014 at 8:54am
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rngrmed, I'm afraid that information will only be distributed through the interaction between the squads and the doctor's offices. Bocephus, While the MOU would have saved 11 jobs, it would have decimated the department. To save 11 jobs, the union would have had to agree to part time employees. A recent article in the Journal cited area departments that were having problems running a full/part time department. Part time employees work in departments that are smaller and make fewer runs. The city hung these 11 jobs over the union's head so the city would apply for a grant to save those jobs. A grant that cost the city no money. (Note that I said the city, not taxpayers) Initially the city wanted 10% part timers then switched to 30%. I believe in the beginning the MOU stated part timers would be 240 hour certified fire fighters and certified paramedics. The next time around it changed to meet the requirements of the city. This MOU would eventually lead to no full time fire fighters. Nobody wants to agree to something that would phase out their job. The union was told even if the MOU were to be ratified, daily minimum staffing would still go down to 13. Basically, it was a raw deal for all fire fighters, not just the 11 that were layed off. The city says it has no money to pay fire fighters and would go broke without the agreement. So if the agreement were to be signed, how was the city going to keep from going broke? Before the layoff, the city wasn't paying for 4 positions that were open, with the agreement they were going to fill those positions. Again, how was that agreement going to save money. That's right. they were going to hire part time works to save the needed money the city doesn't have. But wait, the mayor said once the "cheaper" fire fighters were hired, saving money the city doesn't have, they were going to start paving streets with the money they didn't have to pay fire fighters. Bottom line, 2 levies overwhelmingly supported by the citizens that resulted in cuts to the department. If the city could lie to the public about "no cuts to your services", why should fire fighters trust them? Historic House Guy, Do you have any idea how EMS runs? Try to imagine you are in the back of a squad doing chest compressions, rescue breathing, administering drugs and using a cardiac monitor all at the same time. All that while bouncing around in the back of a squad. If dispatch deems the run could be life threatening, they send an engine company to assist. The two extra sets of hands come in very helpful. Medics are fire fighters and fire fighters are medics. If the engine happened to be closer, those fire fighters (medics) could begin treatment. If the engine personnel were not needed, the medics released them back in service to await the next emergency. Acclaro, The only perks fire fighters were going to lose were eventually their jobs when the city tried to go all part time. There was a second fire in the city that again taxed not only Middletown's resources but the surrounding departments as well. Ask the city building how automatic mutual aid response agreements are going. I hear Monroe and Franklin won't sign off on them. Did you hear about the shooting on 10th Avenue? I believe it took 10 minutes to get a squad on scene. Is that "disheartened employees throwing out baseless claims." Under the old plan, the city had 6 companies to respond to emergencies, now they have 4. ashkicker |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Sep 11 2014 at 1:11pm
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Can someone post the mayors editorial from today's newspaper? I would love to hear your opinions. Seems there is no middle ground on this issue. Does the average firefighter make over $100K/yr? That's what I recall reading. Although I might have it wrong. Hence the request to have it posted or linked here. Thanks to anyone who can help.
------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Sep 11 2014 at 3:29pm
| I read it but I'm not able to be objective because I'm not able to believe or have faith in any thing Mulligan has to say when it comes to city financesI have trouble having any respect for this man that has a responsible job at a bank and yet has helped to devastate our city finanances. IMO |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Sep 14 2014 at 8:43pm
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Should the city manager know how the fire department works before he tries to change it? In today's Journal, Adkins is quoted as saying: "He said since firefighters work 24 consecutive hours, and are off work the next 48 hours, they work about 51 hours a week, some of those hours at overtime pay." There is NO overtime pay when a fire fighter works his 24/48 hour schedule. So does Dougie think fire fighters cost too much because he thinks we get overtime every week? And we were supposed to trust him to give us bonuses if revenues go up. Or that his grand scheme didn't include getting rid of all full time fire fighters after two years. Dougie said we can't staff the department for the one fire a week. What about when there are 5 other runs in the city? Bingo! Mutual aid. How are those mutual aid contracts coming? Rumor has it that Monroe will only send automatic mutual aid when they not at minimum. I didn't see any percentages for when Monroe will be able to send help. More to follow! ashkicker |
Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Sep 16 2014 at 10:05am
| Well I guess we'll lose our fire chief to Mason. I guess he doesn't like dealing with Dougie as much as he did Judy.IMO |
Posted By: tbrew85
Date Posted: Sep 16 2014 at 3:03pm
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It pains me to hear (read) comments from people that really just don't have a clue. I used to work at Atrium Medical Center in the ER. I now work in a different ER in Dayton. I saw medics from Middletown, and all of the surrounding departments on a many times daily basis. I currently see medics from Dayton and surrounding areas on a daily basis. Most of the citizens in this town are clueless as to the quality of fire department we are blessed with. No Dean, you most certainly don't speak for many in this town when you speak disparagingly about them. If you did, the safety levies would not pass each time they are on the ballot. What do we need more, Police or Fire? Not even close. If I'm having a heart attack, or I've been in an accident, the police aren't going to do me much good are they? If I've got a police emergency, Ill call them to clean up the mess. They can take their time. Firefighters and Medics save lives every day. EVERY day. Police, not so much. Police are needed, without a doubt, but FF/Medics are far more urgently needed. This is not even debatable. Providing adequate Fire and Police protection should be the very first priority. I am not generally a union fan, but I do believe this union has gone above and beyond in attempting to reach agreements with the city. I don't believe in this case, that the city leaders have any interest in doing "the right thing".
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Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Sep 16 2014 at 4:05pm
| Our city leaders do not know what "do the right thing" means. If they did past and present members would have acted accordingly.IMO |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Oct 07 2014 at 11:44am
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SAFER grant for fire fighters - $0 Bike path - $134k Adequate Fire/EMS service - Priceless |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 07 2014 at 2:15pm
That's right ashkicker. This council, in all of it's wisdom , has decided to spend money to continue a dam bike path into Franklin rather than to remedy the fire dept. downgrading of manpower. Ridiculous. Do any of them have a clue as to the right thing to do for this city? Given the track record of this inept group of people, could we expect any different in their priorities? Let's see.....I've got $134 thou in my hand. Do I spend it on a bike path that benefits < 3% of the community, or do I spend it where it would benefit the MOST in the community? Just flat out too difficult for this council to provide the obvious choice time after time. We continue to be doomed by the epidemic stupidity of the city leadership. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 07 2014 at 4:22pm
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Didn't I read where Franklin was hesitant about the coalition deal due to Middletowen capping their expense @ $150,000? How much has the bike path cost us so far? And where are the local stops where a rider/walker can enjoy any business amenities? Not laming/accusing--just wondering about bang for the buck(as usual).. |